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Shoalling non jumpers

I like to get in a bit more into this question, because i also notice when i google it, there is not very much to find about other then forum topics where people share their experiences and fish databases warning and stating you need a tight closed lid when keeping this fish. The only thing you read is "Oh they jump!? And that's it.. And another says "Mine never did!!". ????

But there are actualy some basic factors in how to identify fish which are most likely to jump if triggered to do so.

The first thing you should look at at is the position of their mouth, than you'll see fish are devided in several anatomical variaties. This tells you a great deal on what and where the fish likely is to feed on and obviously most of it's time is to find in it's natural habitat.
fishid_mouths.jpg

The 3 most obvious for us are the superior, terminal and inferior.

Lets start with:

Inferior mouth, in aqaurium seen on some cyprinids but most commonly on catfish family, loaches and anything else reciding and feeding of the bottom the most of it's time. These fish are less likely to see in the higher regions of the tank, if they do, you see them do that usualy near or on the glas. The vertical glass panel is nothing more than an extension of the bottom for fish like this. Loaches can be notorious jumpers or escape artists because of that.. Getting exited and have no other way to go than up the vertical bottom we created for them. Or others like corys and otos are far descendants from the lung fish and still have the urge to gulp for air. And out they could go. But for the rest they are relatively unlikely to jump.

Terminal mouth, these you see in f.e. (micro) predatory fish, chiclids, gouramis, barbs and tetras.. These fish you'll see everywhere in the tank, they are where ever is the food to be found. But generaly if there is no other reason for them they stay rather midrange, where they hunt for (micro) organisms or other little fish.

Superior mouth, f.e. the rasboras and danios, these are the fish which look for food at the surface region, edible things falling in the water from plantparts to insects.. These you'll see rarely in the lower regions, there isn't much to find for them down there, they would need to swim upside down to feed from the bottom. These are also the most notorious jumpers.. Most of the time when getting excited for what ever reason up is the most obviuos way for them to go, escaping down would only bring them more down the foodchain, because 9 out of 10 times that's where the threat or cause of excitement comes from. :)

This is what you also could observate in nature.. Sitting at a lake on a windless day when the water surface is flat like a mirror. You'll see nothing happening for hours. And all of a suddun you'll see small fish jumping over a rather large erea. If you are a fisher man, then you most likely now what to do, rig a little spinner throw it in, 95% chance there is a schoaling bunch of perches in feeding frenzy on a shool of little minnows and you'll probably catch a perch. And if they are gone again, you could rig your fly rod, most likely there are also large schools of minnows in this lake tracking around bellow the surface. ;)

Anyway, my point is, fish if not flying fish, do not jump out because of the fun of it. There's always is a trigger for them to make them. The sp. equipped with a Superiour mouth are the ones most likely the jump the surface when a trigger occures.

These triggers can be a lot of things.. :) next to the obvious bad water quality irritating and over exciting them or a pinch in the but by a nasty paracite..

A few other examples are.. :)
Almost all schoaling or schooling (still don't know the difference) also have a hierarchical social bond. Males like to battle of their differences, if a school contains to many males there are obviously to many fights going on which can trigger a jump.

Shoaling fish dwelling the lower parts have this behaivor too, them fighting can trigger the fish reciding above them to flee and jump.
Take for exmample Botia's they are quite boisterous alway in for a fight especialy when there are not enough hidding places for them, fights can go on all night long. And in the morning after you did a nice night snorring you wonder why some of your rasboras jumped out. Obviously boisterous or rather active mid range fish are not the best combination to go together with a school of danios above them..

So these are a few simple things you need to take in consideration.. Match your layout and planting with the fish and their needs and behaivor.. Provide hiding places, fish are well aware of their surroundings and use these places to flee to if they feel like. If you have fish jumping, try the find out what triggers them to jump, just taking for granted they do is actualy nothing more than a blind eye and not knowing what's going on.

All schoaling fish can jump if you give them a reason to do so. :thumbup:
 
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Can a mod make zozo's post a sticky? I think its worth a permanent easy to find home :clap::clap:
 
Well thank you James, i feel very much flattered, you finding it so helpfull and informative :) :cool: But maybe as sticky it should be written in a bit better english, instead of my "Coal mine Dunglish" ©. I know somebody up to the task ;) i already admire very much for his vocabulary and journalistic skills. Welcome to take pieces out my story and experiences which make a bit sence and put a nice article together and maybe give it even more sence. I don't mind imho that's what sharing is all about. Anybody is welcome. :thumbup:
 
You're too humble zozo :D

I think an article on fish choice and care in an open top tank is just what we need.

After all, how many pure planted tanks are there?

If you want to write something up zozo I'd be happy to run over it. To be honest there are very few mistakes in your post above and certainly none that change the meaning of what you wrote in any way. Better than my (insert every other language) :banghead:
 
Thank you James.. :) An article about fish choice and invironmental care probably is indeed what we need.. But to be honestly in a way, to write an article like this realy honestly seen from the fishes perspective and needs. Then it would be very difficult to stay nutraly in regards with the way aquarium keeping developed over the years. And thinking of it i consider myself not nutral enough ( and once heard, to tongue in cheeky) for that. If i would write all my thoughts honestly from the heart i would kick to many shins. Which would only escalate in pro and contra discussions i realy like to avoid.. :nailbiting:

Very small already sensetive example i can give is: The majority of diorama scapes which roam the internet and are copied by many starters are actualy the least suited for 80% of the most popular fish sp. available in the LFS.. o_O And even less suited to be converted to community fish tank.

It's not that i don't like it, actualy i admire the artistic skills of the makers of these temporary display scapes. But also the majority of them i would like even more with other fish.

For me this is more than just a personal opinion, but still it's just me and maybe a few others against a larger army of disagrees whom are constitutionally educated to think differently, will turn it down as only a personal opinion, understandably and no pun intended. What goes around comes around.. :thumbup: That's maybe could be a reason why such an article yet is not written.. ;)
 
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These guys keep on jumping outside the water and look at the water level. The light gradually increases and decreases with a controller. Nothing to make the jump.

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They will be able to escape.
My microdevario would get double that height !
 
Yes those lambchops are well known to jump.. :) If you see the speed they can develop goes for almost all fish i guess a 2 finger high jump is peanuts.
In the Amano galery video i previously posted i count this species in 3 different open top tanks in the first 6 minutes.. And that's in a public galery. I have no idea if he can effort fish jumping all over the floor during visiting hours.. It's just i guess i think he doesn't have this problem so much, or else it wouldn't be such a popular fish in his collections.. Just a thought.. :)
 
Perfect tank (amano) happy fish :D
 
These guys keep on jumping outside the water and look at the water level. The light gradually increases and decreases with a controller. Nothing to make the jump

I can't really "see" the tank but sometimes it's not easy to discern why fish are "unhappy" in a given setup ...
I've not kept these fish in sometime - they look to be T espei - but fish pictured are very pale.
Recently had T heteromorpha in an open tank, T5 lighting that went On/Off abruptly, open top etc - not a single jumper over the year I had them ... but tank is also 55cm height (x 45cm x 60cm) so perhaps that is a defining factor (& CO2 is low - moderate ... water is soft so it's very easy to over dose on the CO2)
 
but tank is also 55cm height (x 45cm x 60cm) so perhaps that is a defining factor.

The plot thickens, or maybe that's deepens :drowning:


:rolleyes:

Would be great to nail these factors down though
 
Read this, it might get even deeper.. :)
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2004/7/short

Don't forget inbreeding, which happens a lot, always did since money is the feul of the engine. I guess the more popular it gets the more inbreed we will encounter.
Inbreed can cause not only physical but also psychological anomaly.. :( :)

Gouverments should oblige the LFS to supplement the name of inbreed with "sp aunt/mammy"
 
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non jumpers for an 80L open top tank? They should not eat shrimp either.
Currently have
M kubotai
S axelrodi
they mostly stay deeper in the tank, & spread out much more now that they are settled - ran very low light & half the tank at intervals (re 2 pendant LED so there was always a dim area) & low CO2 during first week ... S axelrodi came in very rough (& have lost several :nailbiting: )
Note that axelrodi were added a couple days earlier (only 22 shipped so took bag direct from shipment) & they were not very happy in such limited numbers, added 40 - 50 kubotai (these may be a mix of M sp.) & axelrodi became much more settled (though they were so emaciated that I'm dubious about long term survival)

Again tank is 55cm H (x 45cm x 90cm)
 
Like Marcel says there's definitely more to this animal behaviour malarkey than meets the eye...I've kept lamb chops for about a year now in both high and low energy tanks and haven't lost a single one to the parquet.
Chilli's on the other hand I won't keep again unless the tank is hermetically sealed...even with a cover they still found the one small gap and vacated the tank.
 
Chilli's on the other hand I won't keep again unless the tank is hermetically sealed...even with a cover they still found the one small gap and vacated the tank.
Did they?? Have to ask Rob (forgot his ukaps nick), he recently did setup a relatively shallow tank with chili's, open top. Maybe 2 or 3 months now, haven't read him complaining about it, yet. I'm planning to extend my lifestock with a school of some rasbora.. Not sure which one, i had chilli's, espei, hengeli or kobutai on my mind, but my tank isn't ready, not for a few more weeks more growing more cover, could be months.. :)
 
Funny just found a video on youtube with the most suitable title for this topic.. :lol: I realy like to share.. Don't fall asleep.. :rolleyes:
 
These are the choices I have: cardinal ,neon,emperor,harlequin raspora, serpae, glowlight,black phantom.

I don't care about shoalling any more! I want them NOT to jump and NOT to eat my red cherry shrimp. If they also shoal then fantastic.

What do you suggest?
 
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