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Soil Substrate or Dirted Tank - A How to Guide

Your plants will love your tapwater;)
That's what I thought! My other tanks have been set up with specific fish species in mind from the beginning - with this cube there's no rush to add fish so I'm happy to see where I end up once I figure out which plants are working best. It will probably also have to go upstairs so tap water will make everything MUCH easier!
Since I'm about to buy far too much (100L) sphagnum moss peat for the cube, where (in the sequence -last?) would I put it and how much would I put in the canister filters of my other tanks to obtain the humic substance benefits Troi describes?
 
Hi all,
I say forced because my tap water nitrates are sometimes in excess of 50ppm.
Julian where do you live?

50ppm NO3 is the EU limit, but it was breached sometimes in arable agricultural areas in the UK, it shouldn't happen now. The details for the UK are here: <"DWI annual report">.

Is the reading from your water company? or is it with a kit?

cheers Darrel
 
Hi Julian and welcome to UKAPS. Thanks for your kind comments and I'm glad you found the tutorial useful.
I wouldn't worry about the quality of your water either, it should be fine.
You really don't need too much peat in the filters to get the benefit, I suppose a handful or two is a good place to start, but have in mind the tannins will stain the water so that will probably determine the quantity you use more than anything. And yep I'd use a fine mesh filter bag and put it in last.
 
Hi all, Julian where do you live?

50ppm NO3 is the EU limit, but it was breached sometimes in arable agricultural areas in the UK, it shouldn't happen now. The details for the UK are here: <"DWI annual report">.

Is the reading from your water company? or is it with a kit?

cheers Darrel
Hi Darrel - yes I'm aware of the limit and no, I doubt Yorkshire Water would admit to anything above 50ppm NO3, let alone publish it. I do live in a very rural, intensive arable farming area. Local hobbyists who go back a few decades remember when the water was very much softer and the relative ease with which they could get various species to breed without recourse to RO/DI - actually that conversation occurred the day my LFS tested my tap water at 40ppm (averaged out) nitrates using three different test kits. Enough to make me switch to RO/DI but sadly not enough evidence to go to Yorkshire Water with.

Accepting that my API master kit isn't all that accurate, especially in the 40 to 60ppm range where colours are hard to judge, I find my tap water readings are variable between orange (about 20ppm), red (about 40ppm) and dark red (above 50ppm). I assume this variation follows on, with some weeks of delay, from application of fertilisers locally. I'll continue to monitor of course, but for now my family drinks either re-mineralised RO or more normally a 50-50 RO-tap water mix.
 
Hi Julian and welcome to UKAPS. Thanks for your kind comments and I'm glad you found the tutorial useful.
I wouldn't worry about the quality of your water either, it should be fine.
You really don't need too much peat in the filters to get the benefit, I suppose a handful or two is a good place to start, but have in mind the tannins will stain the water so that will probably determine the quantity you use more than anything. And yep I'd use a fine mesh filter bag and put it in last.
Hi Troi - thanks for replying. I have lots of almond leaves in all my tanks and I kind of like the blackwater look so not bothered about stained water so long as my fish like it - which I'm sure they will! I'm very grateful again - thanks!
 
I'm going to feel bad for posting this as probably the answers are somewhere in the forum, likely this very thread...

I've just picked up a bag of "Original Aqua Soil" which I've heard is good for low tech... However it's SO hard to search for this as it just comes up with ADA stuff!! Thus why I'm posting..

I have an AquaNano 40 tank with a filtration setup in the back of the tank, partitioned by a wall. I also have a spare Eheim Ecco Pro 130 so I'm thinking the following...

Original Aqua Soil with Irish peat moss 50/50 mix
Remove filtration from the tank and run the aquarium on the Ecco Pro 130 (not sure if this is a good idea or not as the built in filtration is fairly decent)

Tank has a betta in already.

My questions are.. Is this soil good with the 50/50 mix and what do you think regarding whipping out the built in filtration system?

Again sorry if this has been covered already.
 
I cant comment on the soil as Ive no real experience to offer. With the internal filter Im in the same situation with the same tank I picked up secondhand. I'm cycling mine with a large sponge filter and a DIY series of sponges and Matrix in the built in in parallel. I kinda like the idea of the built in, but its fiddly as hell to maintain compared to an external canister as my hands wont fit down the slots for cleaning. I cant even seat the heater in a clip properly! That said it should provide roughly the same level of biological and mechanical filtering as an external canister, plus the drain is effectively a surface skimmer as the pump pulls the water level lower to form a weir, so Im still undecided.
Not sure that helps any! cheers anyway :)
 
Hi Jamie, I think the built in filter will be fine for low-energy and yes the 1:1 mix will also be fine...part of the fun is experimenting, but it's the mix I prefer.
 
Hi all, after a lot of lurking around and trying to fill my head with a lot of good info I feel I should at least say hello and thanks to you all.
I've had a Juwel Rekord 700 tank in my loft for 4 years and at last after 30 years without a tank i've come back to the hobby.
I decided that i would go for the low tech soil based tank, part down to costs and time, in truth a bit put off by the c02 route and all that entails. If all goes well then it might give me confidence to up my game, but for the meantime i'm keeping it simple.
Can i just say a big thanks to Troi, as it is from his article The Soil Substrate or Dirted Planted Tank that i have got this far.
My tank has been running for now for 4 weeks and so far so good ( hope i've not jinxed it ).
Set up is how Troi explains, Westlands aquatic compost being the soil.
Black gravel as capping, a couple of pieces of boxwood and a couple of bags of plants from Pets at Home.
I don't have a massive choice of fish shops here and as they sell Tropica plants i thought it would be a good start.
I did think of writing down a planting scheme, but the reality is they would not have what i wanted so i just bought the easy plants in the range and just bunged them in.
Microsorum pteropus, Anubias barteri, Murdannia kaisak, Penthorum sedoides, Echinodorus bleheri, and a wild card Ludwiga glandulosa with a couple of moss balls thrown in as well.
After the first week i did a 50% water change then added TNC complete dosage of 7ml.
3 guppies added at the end of week 2.
Week 3 25% water change then 5 phantom tetras added with another 7ml dose of TNC.
I will probably add another 6 fish of small community size over the next few weeks, then as the fish stocks increase then if you guys think right then reduce the dosage of TNC to 2/3ml weekly.
Yes growth is slow, but then i knew it would be like that, but so far i'm pleased that it all seems stable, no algae.
Please excuse picture quality and my aquascaping is rubbish, i know i'll have to move a few things around as they grow. I just wanted to see how it would go.
photo-jpg.79566.jpg
 
Is anyone having difficulty finding Irish Peat Moss in the shops? 2 indie garden shops have told them they've stopped stocking it due to environmental concerns... I can get it online in 100l bags for about £17 but I only need about 3litres if that.. I have no use for the rest! 1 litre bags are mega pricey as well.
 
Is anyone having difficulty finding Irish Peat Moss in the shops? 2 indie garden shops have told them they've stopped stocking it due to environmental concerns... I can get it online in 100l bags for about £17 but I only need about 3litres if that.. I have no use for the rest! 1 litre bags are mega pricey as well.
Hi Jamie,
I had the same issue when setting up my tank last year. I ended up buying the 100l bag and used the rest in the garden...
Cheers,
Manu

Sent from my D5803 using Tapatalk
 
Yes growth is slow, but then i knew it would be like that, but so far i'm pleased that it all seems stable, no algae.
Please excuse picture quality and my aquascaping is rubbish, i know i'll have to move a few things around as they grow. I just wanted to see how it would go.

Hi jens54:)...i love the simplicity and the health of your plants in your tank. I think it is looking absolutely lovely. Congratulations on an amazing effort. And i think that your black gravel looks very natural from the picture,...very much like soil which is enhancing the natural look of your tank
 
Troi,..i know that it isn't really necessary to mineralise the soil,..but i am sort of trying out that route to see if it would work for me....(plus the idea of getting my hands dirty and messy really appeals to me :lol:). My problem is the water in my area seems super soft as i am surrounded by paddy fields,....i was thinking...would it be a good idea to sort of mix in a hand full of coral stones( small sized ones) into my base layer. I am using a local organic potting mix,...which doesn't have a brand name. I am trying to mix the mineralised soil with about 10% dried and crushed pottery clay and then add about 2-3 hand fulls of some old unused Monado Sand ( to give it some grit and also because i heard that it raises the hardness of the water + a hand full of coral stones).
So i will lay the coral stones as the bottom layer (just a hand full) with a sprinkle of KCl powder then pour the lay the soil + pottery clay + monado mulch mix ---> then put the gravel tidy over the whole thing---> & finally cap with some black quartz gravel. :geek:....am i over killing it? or does it sound okay
 
Hey Faizal sorry I missed your post otherwise I'd have replied earlier. How's things? Haven't heard from you much again recently;)
plus the idea of getting my hands dirty and messy really appeals to me :lol:
It sounds like fun when you put it that way:D
am i over killing it? or does it sound okay
I don't think it'll hurt (with the proviso http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/potassium-chloride-kcl.10430/) and I think experimenting is all part of the fun too...let us know how you get on:)
 
Hey Faizal sorry I missed your post otherwise I'd have replied earlier. How's things? Haven't heard from you much again recently;)
:) Hey no worries. Yeah i think by now you've got used to my on & off disappearance:lol:..but seriously my apologies Troi cos I got side tracked yet again...with family & work matters.I'm just glad that most everyone are still getting their "sleeves wet" here. I also just remembered about asking Big Tom the same question last year and he had suggested me to run the coral sand in the filter because i would give me more control over the water hardness.:oops: Should have gone thru that before dumbly posting the same question.
 
Revisiting to update - I now have a 110 litre soil based planted tank I'm very happy with. Its not exactly "aquascaped" but the plants are obviously vigorous and thriving in a way I've never experienced with previous attempts (low tech). One thing I'm feeling particularly stupid about is not doing some basic EI type dosing from the outset to help those plants that are totally dependent on water column ferts like java ferns and anubias (duh!). Otherwise its going very well.

The difference between this tank and my 200L "community" tank is both inspiring and kinda frustrating because now I really want to redo the substrate in the 200L. I am however very concerned for the fish and mini-cycles during such a change over.

Sorry what follows is so long - I thought about starting a new thread, but then thought is would be useful for others to include discussion of changing an existing setup over to soil in this thread.

Could you guys please comment on your experiences re changing substrate to dirt/soil (50/50 irish peat and pond plant substrate as per Troi's OP) and whether or not you think the following would work:

Current set up is: 200L tank with two largish angelfish, 3 bronze corys and a single female apisto cacatuoides (her mate died recently), a fluval 406 and T8 standard lights for the Roma tank. So its very understocked which is in my favour I guess. Current substrate is black/grey fine gravel which has loads of root tabs and some swords, cabomba, val, sag, java ferns and some nice bronze and green crypts. I have however had a fairly major outbreak of some kind of black hair algae and in parallel I've had to dose for the camallanus worm infestation that killed the male cacatuoides. Two doses of eSHa-NDX later this and my other tanks now seem worm free. I will be doing a third dose to be super sure, but my plan is to be pretty ruthless with the current substrate (because thats where worm larvae will be if any survived) and get rid. So would it work to:

1) Put the fish in a 60L barrel with the fluval 406 running through it throttled back with heater etc, I was thinking 50/50 fresh water / existing tank water. Should I keep these fish in the dark (the barrel is opaque) or give them some light? My hunch is dark is better?

2) remove existing substrate, clean tank - I'm thinking peroxide 3% and white vinegar followed by thorough rinse of course? Clean up plants as best I can, maybe mild bleach dip?

3) Add soil substrate (Troi's 50/50 mix with some red clay crushed and mixed in) and apply mesh retainer, add gravel cap. Plant heavily with existing and new plants.

4) Add water. Do one or two 90% water changes because I've seen doing so recommended on Dustin's fish tanks you tube channel, until water is clear.

5) Test water parameters and hopefully add fish and reconnect filter etc. Dose with Seachem stability for the first week and watch water parameters.

I'm obviously hoping the mature filter in combination with dosing Stability daily will protect the fish. Would you add a dose of Prime just to be sure and give the fish some protection against ammonia and nitrites as things settle? My concern is doing so makes water parameter tests meaningless . . .

I've read advice about NOT using any of the water fish are stored in during such a process because stressed fish release more than normal amounts of ammonia? So I'd obviously need to acclimatise them as one would for a new fish. Thoughts on this?

Realistically how long will the fish be OK in the 60 litre barrel? I'm wondering if I can take a weekend to do this or should I try to get it done in a day? In theory its doable in a day, but I know enough to know that there are always unanticipated snags . . .

Please share your experiences if you've been through the process - any advice very welcome!
 
Hi all,
not doing some basic EI type dosing from the outset to help those plants that are totally dependent on water column ferts like java ferns and anubias
They will still gain nutrients (and potentially CO2) indirectly from the soil. The clay minerals and humus in the soil will have cation (CEC) & anion (AEC) exchange capacity, which means that ions will be exchanged into the water column from the "piggy bank" in the soil.

Ion exchange is dependent upon both the concentration of <"ions in solution and their valency">, but even with strongly bound ions (Mg++, PO4--- etc.) they will be transferred from the soil, to the water column, if the concentration gradient is steep enough.

In practice as ions are removed from the water column, more will trickle into solution from the soil reservoir.

cheers Darrel
 
Wow that's a lot of bases you've given yourself to cover...I think your fish will be fine in the container for at least a weekend - perhaps more. Just keep an eye on them.
What you have planned sounds OK, but just see how you go and take your time to get it right.
 
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