Some annoying issue!!

[Marc1t]

tank, 270l cube 65x65x65
Water 50/50 RO/tap temp, 27C 30% water change weekly.
Soil. Ada aqua soil
Ferts, EI dosing Co2 injection
Lighting, 4x24w Ho tubes with reflectors plus Grobeam 600 all lights on for 5 hours ramping up/ down total 8 hours. No real algae issues.
Filters, 2 off combined specified flow rate 1900lpm
Power head 1600lph


I have been creating or trying to create a planted (& fish) aquarium for just over a year now & Iv come a long way & have learnt a lot from this forum & I still have loads to get my head round.
I have a couple of annoying issues despite following all the rules Iv learnt from here.
The amount of Co2 I'm having to pump into the tank for a green nor even lime green DC seems a lot compared to a lot of other people's set ups Iv read about my bubble counter is not a bubble counter but more like a flow indicators that uncountable I don't see any fish stress. I have checked everything for leaks".......none
I was really struggling to grow Monte Carlo as a carpet & though growin a little better now due I think to the fact that I increased the light with the extra Grobeam but things are still not great. I was led to believe this stuff would grow like crazy but it's not the case in my tank. I see very little pearling a bit on the Amazon swords but very little elsewhere none on the MC
To improve the flow I got a 1600 lph power head & have good observed flow right down to the substrate
The red plants I recently put Alternethra's are showing patchy leaves on the pink underside with some lower leaves melting is this a lighting issue or fertiliser issue?
All the other stem plants Amazon swords & cryptocorine are doing well.
Any comments greatly received than

 

[John S]

Have you done a PH profile on your tank?

 

[Marc1t]

Have you done a PH profile on your tank?

No not yet. Iv been meaning to get a ph pen.

Could you please run me through the process & what you think I will learn from it?

I know test kits can be quite inaccurate just for curiosity I measured the ph at gas off as 6.4 according to the colour chart.
I should also add my normal tank RO/tap mix water ph is 7.6

 

[John S]

The process will give you an indication of your Co2 levels are in your tank. You'll be taking hourly readings before your Co2 comes on, further readings as the Co2 ramps up, readings when the light comes on and then during the photo period.

So start with a reading an hour before your Co2 turns on. By the time your lights come on you will be looking for a PH drop of ~1 unit. During the photoperiod you are looking for the PH to be reasonably stable, if the PH continues value keeps dropping your livestock will suffer.

What Co2 diffuser are you using and are you using a spray bar?

I also have to pump in a lot of Co2. My Co2 is on three hours before lights on (160L tank), I was told this is due to the high calcium levels in my water.

 

[Chris Jackson]

Hi Marc,
In my experience MC will pearl like mad under strong light regardless of CO2 and flow. However without adequate CO2 it will struggle after awhile. If you're starting RO/tap water blend ph is 7.6 and your end ph is 6.4 then you should be ok for CO2. I suggest that your primary issue is probably insufficient light intensity. Too much light causes many challenges but so does too little..

 

[Marc1t]

Hi & thanks useful info,
I'm using an inline diffuser at the moment I was using a reactor for a while but it broke ( horrible leak/ flood) got a replacement but still in the box.
My water after mixing with Ro is fairly soft kh about 3 & I keep a few Discus & they are in top shape so I would have thought my water has not much calcium but I'm no chemist, never tested so not sure.
I started this hobby low tech just 2 Ho tubes no reflectors just a few cardinal tetras got a Discus mix of plants from aqua essentials plants went mad.
Now maybe it's just me but things have slowed down a bit, can't really understand why. Might be just more challenging plants.

 

[Mick.Dk]

Since you mention Discus........could your temperature be an issue ????
- most of our common aquatic plants really do not tolerate the usual high temperature in a Discus-tank - especially not long-time.
Most Cryptocorynes and the amazon sword will tolerate, though........

 

[Marc1t]

Hi Marc,
In my experience MC will pearl like mad under strong light regardless of CO2 and flow. However without adequate CO2 it will struggle after awhile. If your starting RO/tap water blend ph is 7.6 and your end ph is 6.4 then you should be ok for CO2. I suggest that your primary issue is probably insufficient light intensity. Too much light causes many challenges but so does too little..

Thanks
Everybody says that which is why I'm so frustrated
After a discussion on here we came to the same conclusion which is why I got the extra Grobeam I now have 4 Ho tubes reflectors with the Grobeam directly over the MC Iv been slowly ramping the lighting period up now all lights on for 6 hours no pearling From the MC. Don't get me wrong I'm not chasing the pearling but it is frustrating.

 

[Marc1t]

Since you mention Discus........could your temperature be an issue ????
- most of our common aquatic plants really do not tolerate the usual high temperature in a Discus-tank - especially not long-time.
Most Cryptocorynes and the amazon sword will tolerate, though........

Yeah since you mention, Iv been fairly carful with plant selection & checked with aqua essentials, they could be wrong I suppose, my temp I try to keep at 27 which is on the low side for discus but they don't seem to mind, & they are in stunning condition about 4 inches

 

[Mick.Dk]

27 celcius should be acceptable for most plants - also long-time !!
I hope it will be acceptable long-time for the Discus, too............
Be aware, though, that higher temp. speed up metabolism of the plants, increasing their needs.

 

[Chris Jackson]

Thanks
Everybody says that which is why I'm so frustrated
After a discussion on here we came to the same conclusion which is why I got the extra Grobeam I now have 4 Ho tubes reflectors with the Grobeam directly over the MC Iv been slowly ramping the lighting period up now all lights on for 6 hours no pearling From the MC. Don't get me wrong I'm not chasing the pearling but it is frustrating.

Ummm I see, intriguing... in that case I suggest that it may be the 65cm depth of your tank causing the issue. I've never tried MC in my 60cm deep tank but with lilaeopsis I got very slow progress on just HO T5's but the punch power of metal halides made all the difference. A Growbeam 600 may not actually add much more light at substrate level in a deep tank...

 

[Martin in Holland]

Stop frustrating yourself, just get an easier carpet plant to grow....although Monte Carlo is already easy, I've grown it under low light, it took a little while for it to start growing but when it did I couldn't keep up with pruning.
As John S. suggested, first do a pH vs KH profile and go from there.

 

[Marc1t]

Ummm I see, intriguing... in that case I suggest that it may be the 65cm depth of your tank causing the issue. I've never tried MC in my 60cm deep tank but with lilaeopsis I got very slow progress on just HO T5's but the punch power of metal halides made all the difference. A Growbeam 600 may not actually add much more light at substrate level in a deep tank...

Not sure whether it is useful light for the MC but it looks a hell of a lot brighter at substrate level with the growbeam than without.

 

[Chris Jackson]

Not sure whether it is useful light for the MC but it looks a hell of a lot brighter at substrate level with the growbeam than without.

Maybe something else then. It won't be a popular suggestion but it could be over ferts. Aquasoil is nutrient rich already, full EI might be overdoing it. I've had more success running things leaner

 

[Marc1t]

Maybe something else then. It won't be a popular suggestion but it could be over ferts. Aquasoil is nutrient rich already, full EI might be overdoing it. I've had more success running things leaner

Actually you may have a point here & it has crossed my mind, I ran everything without dosing anything for a while just lazyness & it was a while before I noticed any real difference but I was growing some pretty easy plants then.

Perhaps the effect of overdosing ferts could be a discussion for another thread.
Cheers

 

[Chris Jackson]

Ha starting a thread on overdosing could be er "lively"... I'll leave that one to the scientists on here.

But it is very interesting, I think we should take encouragement from the fact that many varied approaches yield success. For me the key seems to be finding and maintaining harmony between all elements which means making gradual minor adjustments and observing the plants and fish along the way...

 

[Marc1t]

Ha starting a thread on overdosing could be er "lively"... I'll leave that one to the scientists on here.

But it is very interesting, I think we should take encouragement from the fact that many varied approaches yield success. For me the key seems to be finding and maintaining harmony between all elements which means making gradual minor adjustments and observing the plants and fish along the way...

I know what you mean, many scientists on here of which I am not! I asked a simple at least I thought so question about lighting on here once Jesus! I thought it was the stuff that helped you see things how wrong I was!!

I think I could learn lots from your comment about minor adjustments thanks. I know ov made mistakes with changing things too dramatically sometimes I'm really enjoying the learning curve though.