Opinions on my Monte Carlo please?

[Wisey]

Hi All,

I posted in my journal, but thought this question might get some more exposure here.

I added MC to my aquarium 4 weeks ago today. This first pic is just after planting, please excuse the photo-bombing Oto's!

4 weeks later this is what I have:

Certainly growth, gaps have filled in and there are fresh new leaves there, but quite a few leaves with brown edges etc. Should this be expected as it transitions to life underwater?

This post here gives you the latest FTS so that you can see where it is placed:

http://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/round-two.40125/page-6#post-441370

The outflow from the filter hits the front left corner and you can see the flow go straight back over the MC, so its getting flow and CO2. I have had some issues with getting good light with only 1 TMC 1500 LED tile over this size and height tank, but have recently dropped the tile even lower.

Can anyone suggest what I need to do with my MC please? Is it just a case of leaving it to transition to life underwater, or is there some deficiency I need to consider?

 

[pepedopolous]

I've found Pogostemon erectus to be far more difficult to grow than 'Monte Carlo'. So it would be strange to me of that was OK but the MMC isn't. Without a PAR meter you are guessing about the light levels. Can you borrow one or a SenEye Reef? I think it could be too much light and not enough CO2.

P

 

[Wisey]

My Pogo is in the same state, it has green tops, but browning lower down. I was told this was probably due to lack of light in the corners with my tile.

Planning on removing the Pogo and replacing with more Crypts for the darker background. Would like to make the MC work though.

Unfortunately no access to a PAR meter.

 

[Lindy]

Monte Carlo doesn't need high light, flow or co2. I know plenty of folk with it in their shrimp tanks without ferts too. Maybe the flow is too much?

 

[Wisey]

Monte Carlo doesn't need high light, flow or co2. I know plenty of folk with it in their shrimp tanks without ferts too. Maybe the flow is too much?

This is why I am worried what's up, its not supposed to be that demanding. I could try turning the filter down a few notches to see if that helps, but it does not look like its getting battered in the flow at the moment, its not really moving for example. I can see the flow of CO2 bubbles over the top of it, but it does not appear to get pushed around. I have a second Koralia arriving tomororw which will go at the top on the back left. With that in place I could reduce the flow from the filter to have lower flow over the MC, but use the new Koralia to still ensure that I have flow accross the back.

 

[alto]

Remind me who's in your algae crew

Obviously the otos are not bothered about tidying up the MC or Pogo (I suspect it's a combination of algae + transitioning leafs + just not thriving leafs ... helpful I know ) so look to various shrimp species (another call out for tiger shrimp!), for snails, I find the small horned nerites to be most interested in all plant "detritus"
I picked up some of the tracked nerites & they do a great job on glass & wood & rock but seem to have very little interest in plant housekeeping.

I think that if you just persevere with the MC it will come out fine,
- you might do a minimal trim to try & remove the easy brown bits (but this often leads to nice green shoots also floating off)
- you might also do a test section where you trim heavily & see how it responds
In a recent (sudden) rescape I pulled up the nice MC mats, placed them gently in a plastic tub + some water - where they remained for a couple days (not quite as planned ) - then replanted only to have most of the clumps float free upon filling, so jammed the poor things in ... they don't seem to have minded a bit

It's frustrating as another tank might not seem to go through any of the growth pains you're experiencing despite apparently receiving much the same care & fertilizers etc etc ...

Also look to your fertilizer levels & make sure you're not over-dosing (re possible toxicity in soft water) especially if there's not a lot of fast growers to take up the nutrients

 

[Wisey]

Algae crew is 4 Amanos and 5 Otos. As you say, the Otos are not bothered with the MC. I have seen an Amano grazing on the MC in recent days, but only when the lights are off. They are not out that much. I keep meaning to get more, but they are rarely in my LFS.

I'll certainly persevere, I did consider trimming as much crud out as possible, but with it only being in a few weeks wasn't sure whether it would appreciate a cut yet.

New plants arrive tomorrow, so I'll water change, plant the new stuff and give it a trim tomorrow.

Fert levels are the same as they have been ever since the auto doser went in, although my macro and micro are dosed daily, 12 hours apart. Didn't realise my soft water could impact ferts though?

 

[alto]

Look for tiger shrimp, red nose shrimp, some cherry variant you like - just choose a single color so your babies stay looking nice, eg there are some very nice blues & yellows, orange rili, or black rili etc all look nice & can generally be found in various price ranges so look for one that suits - if online ask for photos of the shrimp that will be shipping

In harder water, many fertilizer elements may react with/precipitate out of solution etc or charge state may alter so no longer available to plants so it's much less likely to observe effects of fertilizer overdosing, in soft, acidic water more of these compounds tend to remain in solution & in forms that are plant available ... you can have a "toxicity" effect as in too much of something but also a transport effect re sites are occupied by excess compound etc so if you've tried everything else, just back off on the dosing & see what happens (ie this is a less likely effect than many others but it also does occur) - easiest way to reduce fertilizers without changing your dosing program & solutions, is to add in a quick mid week water change of 50% (if you have a python type system this is like 10min )

I think your Amano experience is much like mine ... I finally just stopped adding them into tanks as they were hard to track down & some of the "pretenders" are very poor algae eaters - & some were quite aggressive to other shrimp.

I did consider trimming as much crud out as possible

As you may guess I do as little trimming as possible hence my focus on varied algae/plant detritus consumers

 

[Wisey]

I don't have a pythyon, water changes are quite a slow process for me, even though the kitchen sink is only about 8 feet away. My waste water goes down the toilet in the bathroom which is further away and the only place I can get my large 25 litre containers to fill them is in the shower. I have to unscrew the shower head from the hose and then fill the containers from that hose. I have considered the python a few times, but I'm not sure it would fit on the taps I have as they are all mixers. I might be able to get it to work in the kitchen with the universal faucet adapater that they sell.

I set up my filter hose with a double tap set inbetween the inflow pipe and the filter. I turn off both taps, unscrew, then add in a length of hose I have spare which has another double tap set with the alternate connections on each end. I connect on the relevant end to the inflow pipe, open the taps and the syphon just starts. The height of the inflow pipe means that when the syphon breaks I am at around 50%, which is convenient. I can just turn the syphon off and on with the tap when I need to empty the buckets, but it means 3 or 4 trips back and forth to the bathroom with waste water. I do also manually syphon if there is crud to clean out of the tank, or off the sand.

When it comes to the refill, I have my two 25 litre water containers that were filled to roughly the right temp and treated with prime right at the start of the process. I just use that spare hose again, but switched round the other way so it now connects to the filter. Drop the other end in to the fresh water container stood on a table to give it some height above the filter, then open up the taps, prime it a little and turn on the filter to refill the tank using the filter pump. It used to be a real pain to get it primed when I had the spraybar, but with the single outflow violet pipe it just takes a few pumps of the primer and then it sorts itself out.

If I need to do two a week, I would certainly try it, but it will not be a pain free process, haha.

I'm reluctant to spend a lot of money on different shrimp at the moment as I think there might be a house move on the cards in the not too distant future and I might have to tear everything down. No doubt this will happen just as I get my MC to carpet beautifully. Such is life, haha. The Nerites sound interesting, but I'm not sure they will be happy in my soft water. I guess the same could be said of my Amanos though, they do molt, but not much, only seen two molts in the tank since the rescape. I do have some Oyster shell chick grit and a filter bag which I might drop in the filter at some point to try and harden up the water a bit seeing as I am not trying to breed soft water fish or anything like that.

 

[alto]

If I need to do two a week, I would certainly try it, but it will not be a pain free process, haha.

You can also just dilute your EI stock solutions

I think there might be a house move on the cards in the not too distant future and I might have to tear everything down. No doubt this will happen just as I get my MC to carpet beautifully

My carefully lifted out, then separated into clumps & replanted MC carpet has done amazingly well.

I'm reluctant to spend a lot of money on different shrimp at the moment

don't spend any more than if you were adding to your Amano population - I'd just spend the same $ on alternate shrimp types
I feed a lot of frozen bloodworm & brine shrimp, so perhaps that is why I've never noticed any molt issues with shrimp
I've not seen any issues yet with the nerites (some did arrive with damaged shells) though they are in tanks with "ryuoh" stone ... thanks for the reminder