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Slow and steady

Hi P

having a look at your pictures I can see that your filter outflow is pointing slightly downwards and it is not probably creating too much rippling on the water surface. The Koralia although being well positioned to create a nice circular flow, is also quite low IMO to be able to ripple the surface.If you ripple the surface it will be less probable that you asphyxiate your fish even pumping more CO2 (I remember the first time I used CO2 in my high tech I nearly killed all my fish with 1 bps using a very inefficient in-tank diffuser, now I can pump up to 3 bps with an inline diffuser and fish do well). In addition your CO2 levels will much more stable during the light period which is very important. Hope it helps.

Jordi
 
having a look at your pictures I can see that your filter outflow is pointing slightly downwards and it is not probably creating too much rippling on the water surface. The Koralia although being well positioned to create a nice circular flow, is also quite low IMO to be able to ripple the surface

Hi Jordi, thanks for your help!

Your right about the flow pattern. It is so strong leaving the outlet that it erodes the soil in the bottom right corner and the air in the drop checker actually 'wobbles' in the current.
15759025384_b0bc4a8270.jpgflow by pepedopolous, on Flickr

The Koralia, now pointing down, doesn't ripple the surface so much but I think it is the skimmer that provides a decent amount of rippling and degassing as it acts like a mini overflow...
16195141439_12e261203b.jpgP1270778 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

It's a never ending chore to remove all the Staurogyne leaves...
15758896504_b966d50406.jpgP1270775 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

I think I have maximised flow by having minimal filter media (most importantly no floss) and as short as possible lengths of tubing.
15932983490_fa0f79160f.jpg
PC057425
by pepedopolous, on Flickr
16380444792_e846719280.jpgP1270786 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

If I didn't have decent degassing/agitation, I wouldn't have such a stable pH when the CO2 is on: -
15761532843_93d1d1330b.jpgpH profile by pepedopolous, on Flickr

So, what is the Staurogyne telling me? This pic is about a week old, when I was already a bit concerned about the leaves falling off: -
16116080960_2cbbb19dae.jpgP1170539 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
The roots go right to the bottom glass.

And now a pic from today. This Stauro is right in the path of the filter outflow in the bottom right corner. Wherever you look the water is carbonated!
15761320933_cdd3d77819.jpgP1270758 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Another shot to show the lemonade. CO2 bubbles are collecting under the Microsorum leaves.
16195414517_2713caef59.jpgP1270755cr by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Facing the filter outlet head on: -
16355325026_bfb80bcd1e.jpgP1270750 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

More Stauro this time on the left hand side: -
16381341905_c786c9d7de.jpgP1270768 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
16195432557_6df08335b3.jpgP1270767 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

The middle patch of Staurogyne. It is now possible to see the stems and substrate where before there was simply loads of leaves.
16379608151_8ede2dc5bf.jpgP1270769 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


I haven't changed the drop checker fluid in ages as I check the pH with a meter. The DC never goes blue, it's lime green when the CO2 is on: -
15758913164_6edae61fb0.jpgP1270788 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

The force of the CO2 when it first comes on drives out the water in the bubble counter within days.
16380440552_e4c0fbe45c.jpgP1270784 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

No leaks here?
16195467037_3329892bdc.jpgP1270785 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

The 'Monte Carlo' doesn't seem to care so much for CO2!
16193727478_17373f8e80.jpgP1270789 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


I've had this afternoon to look at the aquarium and the pH right now (18:00) is at 5.79. At 14:00 was about the same (5.82). It as only at about 17:00 that I noticed any fish at the surface. They are all there right now but to be honest I wonder if they are just hungry and also they all love the flow.

I know from bitter experience that when I push the CO2 too high, the Amano shrimps start jumping out. This hasn't happened yet with this scape.

So, I'm thinking I could increase the CO2 a bit more (when I refill the bubble counter!) and also maybe stop the CO2 earlier for the sake of the fish.

At the moment I stop it at 20:00, 2 hours before lights off. Maybe I could stop it 3 or even 4 hours before lights off?

My next task for this evening is to calibrate the pH meter again, do a KH test and get out the PITA Seneye to check the PAR again. I have NO algae and with many people running Aquaskys with 100+ PAR at the substrate, what harm can I do if I double the PAR to say 40?!

Thanks for looking,

P
 
Hi P

I think you should change your DC reagent and fill your bubble counter... These are the good indicators of your co2 performance. There are two things that are not normal IMO: the first me is your water blowing out the bubble counter, at least it has never happened to me. And the other is this 1 pH drop, a bit too low for KH 5. Although it is a rule of thumb and I have never had soft water, it looks from what I have read that you should be achieving something more. It is true that all your plants, not very demanding in terms of co2, seems to do well... So good idea to calibrate the pH meter and to check every little detail that can affect your co2. That's the priority IMO.

Regarding the light and your last question... Well my guess is that managing PAR 100 at the substrate level is not easy and needs some experience, not to say having your flow and co2 perfectly executed. But there is a huge difference between AquaSky light levels and your 20 PAR. Telling newbies that it's is much better to work with low lights makes sense, especially in new setups. This is also important because our eyes are very bad judging the amount of light... but if you have a PAR meter and some experience as you have I would try to reach PAR 40 or even 50 and see how it works.

Jordi
 
Another thing, eroding your substrate with your outflow sounds not good al all. I would try to solve this. Additionally you mention that you are rippling the surface with the skimmer... Can you do this? To ripple my surface I use a Koralia, a spraybar under the water surface, etc. but I cannot imagine how you do this with a skimmer. A skimmer may swallow your surface film but does it ripple the surface?
This is my rippling during the day and what I do to aerate my tank every night... Hope it helps.



Jordi
 
Last edited:
Another thing, eroding your substrate with your outflow sounds not good al all. I would try to solve this.
So I've achieved too much flow!

Additionally you mention that you are rippling the surface with the skimmer... Can you do this?
Yes! The skimmer doesn't agitate the surface by means of water entering the aquarium but the opposite. It draws water into the filter inlet from the surface as well as the normal way from the bottom (you can actually adjust how much comes from the top or bottom).

I can make a video but I assure you that there is rippling. I think it is beneficial regardless as it keeps the surface clean and ensures degassing due to the high surface area to volume ratio of the water entering the skimmer at the top.

People using overflows (often in marine aquariums but Tom Barr uses them too), use them for the same reasons.

I had to take a break from the aquarium tonight to make dinner but I'll do all the things you mentioned in the previous post to make sure I have the correct info.

Thanks again,


P
 

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3/20/15
Pogostemon erectus gone, Ludwigia almost gone, Stauro very unhealthy. Yet no algae? ! ?
26522196292_642aa2580d.jpgP3200234 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26549472961_cf84a1c358.jpgP3200237 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26588970026_3237ee23c6.jpgP3200235 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


17/8/2015
Got rid of Java fern 'Trident', some Stauro has been replaced by some (already very leggy) submersed plants from LFS. Background stem plant is Hygrophila polysperma 'variegated' which I've grown before in low tech conditions...
26390323062_492863ae12.jpgP8172674 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Should have trimmed this sooner. Alas confidence wasn't high.
25879794483_f158c4ef88.jpgP8172677 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Looked alright...
26209774990_5a6b7bb371.jpgP8172676 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26209789430_793d77af03.jpgP8172669 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26456758636_48f3fc564d.jpgP8172657 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26482646155_c0e24bf228.jpgP8172668 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
25879873523_239b98b8fa.jpgP8162642 by pepedopolous, on Flickr


It was more or less uphill from here...

P
 
In October 2015 I got fed up with the Hygrophila not pulling it's weight! I took it out and got some new plants: -

Blyxa japonica
Rotala sp. 'colorata'
Rotala macrandra
Alternanthera reineckii
Pogostemon erectus
(again)

These seemed to take ages to get going. I increased the light until BBA started to show up on the rocks and Java fern. However, after re-adjusting the light and spot treating with EasyCarbo, the scape was looking at it's best. Hurrah!
26416358081_153764a004.jpgPB212990 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26456574416_73f7a10109.jpgPB212988 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26209640930_c30f79d225.jpgPB212985 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
25877613624_33e2a7ea87.jpgPB212987 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
25879667513_ed9084da91.jpgPB212981 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26482476265_b7ce8b1bf3.jpgPB212992 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26416349571_c22312cbfe.jpgPB212994 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
25877596434_48a3b13d30.jpgPB212995 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26390144442_430008a70d.jpgPB283003 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

So the scape enjoyed some good health before some equipment failure scuppered things...

P
 
It wasn't HC, it was Micranthemum 'Monte Carlo' which is easier. I think Stauro is just a hard plant to grow and a kind of 'canary' for CO2 levels. Once it is unhealthy, it can be very hard to bring it back again.

I generally stuck to standard EI dosing (www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk). I tried halving and doubling the amounts, with and without MgSO4, reduced phosphates, and supplementary potassium dosing (Potassium sulphate solution). However, none of these tweaks seemed to have much effect compared to when I really nailed good CO2 and light.

With the next version of this scape, I'm just dosing potassium at the moment, as there must be loads of ferts already in the (re-used) soil. I have a hunch that unlimited levels of phosphates and nitrates are actually a lot less than is in standard EI solution. Try looking at Dennis Wong's videos on Youtube for a good comparison of 'heavy' VS lean dosing.

P
 
Hi , thanks for the infos , i tried the same with stauro , doubling and reducing macros , did't work . Are you dosing chelated traces ? If yes how much ppm and how often per week ?

Thanks
Hi, this tank is now re-scaped and I'm just dosing Potassium sulphate solution. However, before the re-scape I was dosing EI macros and micros on alternate days.

Friday = 50% water change, macro
Sat = micro
Sun = macro
Mon = micro
Tue = macro
Wed = micro
Thur = rest

I'm not sure about the exact ppm. I used the EI Starter kit from www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk. On their FAQ it says EI micro is about 0.5ppm Fe. That is if you dose 10ml of their solution per 50l of aquarium water. I tried halving this to no ill effect.

P
 
Multiple "Likes" for the Impish (Evil?) Cat :D

& thanks for getting this journal current :clap:
- looking forward to the new scape!

If growing Staurogyne repens I think that Tropica's article is a worthwhile read
Thanks. I've read that one before. I think it's where I discovered this plant which is now my Achilles heel. I see that it says medium to high light... I think I generally had light levels of low to medium. No algae but unhealthy Stauro :(
 
OK, so bringing things almost to the present day... In December my in-line atomiser cracked (Up Aqua, new type). Just when things were going well! I decided to simply use an in-tank diffuser (Tropica), which works really well in another 60 litre aquarium I have. However, going into the new year it was clear that things were only declining. I was still able to get the same pH decrease (1.2 - 1.3 units) but it took loads more CO2 to do this (50g per day instead of 30g) and the distribution just wasn't as good as with the in-line so all the plants were suffering.

In the end I went back to using an old style Up atomiser that I've had for years. Things picked up but not as good as before and a re-scape was well overdue.

April 2016 Recovery of sorts
26392198812_65a6f3a092.jpgP4091025 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

The internal filter was being 'seeded' for a temporary fish home during the re-scape.
26458612606_a6ed241623.jpgP4091015 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Goodbye, my scape. You've been a total PITA at times, but I'm gonna miss you!
26484540655_c1beefd811.jpgP4091005 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26392207432_4a27dcd1d1.jpgP4091021 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
 
Re-scape April 2016

I saw that black lava rock was available at aquasabi.com, just what I wanted! I sent them an email about what quantity to order for my needs and they sent me this: -
26057029284_1e2bae4e9a.jpg2016-04-04 15.11.01 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Decided to go for it. The fish and shrimp were housed in a 70l plastic container with Blyxa and Java fern for company.

I was inspired by this picture (from the UKAPS Facebook page I think, sorry for stealing it), to use Glossostigma elatinoides and Eleocharis acicularis.
26569534942_068b7bd7ee.jpg12605425_537034656471312_5949799486075938127_o by pepedopolous, on Flickr


Plant List

Foreground
Glossostigma elatinoides

Mid-ground
Staurogyne repens (How could I resist?)
Microsorum pteropus 'Petit' (This is the Java fern I always wanted, but was never in stock)

Background (left)
Eleocharis acicularis

Background (right)
Pogostemon erectus

Mosses on rocks
Fissidens fontanus
Riccardia chamedryfolia


I decided to chop up the mosses in a blender with a smidgen of yoghurt (I actually used the tiniest amount of Czech sour cream). I did a 6 day dry start just to give the mosses enough time to grab hold of the rocks.

Aquasabi also sent me Sagittaria subulata as a freebie, which I've used in a few nooks.

Used my phone to record the set-up...

I re-used the same Tropica soil (quite full of detritus/mulm after 14 months)
26057635014_e2337e9dac.jpgIMG_20160410_222720 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Are these the same rocks I ordered?
26057798094_968471cfb5.jpgIMG_20160412_150758 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Yep!
26057796674_009c312a25.jpgIMG_20160412_154011 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
26636769506_bd10d67fef.jpgIMG_20160412_153954 by pepedopolous, on Flickr

Potential...
26663344405_2215c75a9e.jpgIMG_20160412_154423 by pepedopolous, on Flickr
 
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