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CO2 Disaster

alkm

Member
Joined
16 May 2016
Messages
35
Location
Sheffield
Here we go.

After preparing all week to start an EI dosing system and really looking forward to spending the weekend setting up and trying to record the experience in the journal section, I came home from work yesterday to a camplete disaster. All the fish and amano shrimp in my tank were dead. I feel absolutely gutted, I had a vibrant community of fish and shrimp and now the tank is lifeless. I don't know what I'm going ot do next, I love the hobby but there's no way I'm setting up a CO2 system until I undersstand what went wrong and how this can be avoided.

I feel ashamed for what's happend, as I was responsible for the life in the tank, but I want to share the experience and ask for your help and advice on the likely cause of the CO2 overdose.

I'm using a 2 kg fire extinguisher attached to a dual stage regulator with a solenoid and needle valve (see picture below). I had the second stage set at just below 4 bar.
IMG_20160604_131446767.jpg

When I got home yesterday the FE was empty. I'd bene expecting it to run out as it's been in daily use for several months. This is the second FE I've used in the tank and I noticed when the last one ran out as the drop checker solution did not change to lime green on the day the CO2 stopped. The only change I've made to the system since the last bottle emptied is the CO2 diffuser. I've changed from an inline atomiser to inline reactor. My initial thoughts on possible cause are as follows:
  • The pressure in the second stage was at 4 bar and too high for the reactor I was using. I'd set it high when using the inline atomiser but did not adjust it when I switched to the reactor.
  • The regulator and/or needle valve iis faulty - It seems to be working ok on a new FE.
  • Increase in working pressure as the liquid CO2 all used in FE that has resulted in a 'dump' of the remaining CO2 into the tank - However I was under the impression that this was not a problem with dual stage regulators
Any help or advice woul dbe greatly appreciated. I want to understand what has gone wrong so I can feel comfortable carrying on with the hobby.

Thanks
 
commiserations on the fish losses :sorry:

Are you certain it's an actual dual stage regulator & not just dual gauge?

In general one should be able to observe a drop in cylinder pressure before the "end", maybe keep track on this new cylinder & look for the pattern.
 
Sorry for your loss.. :(.. Cause is most likely a empty tank co2 dump.. Tho the regulator states to be dual stage to prevent this, it still can be defective.. You should actual put your co2 bottle on a weight scale, first an empty one to know how much its weight is, then check it's weight to know when you're about to be empty, when this time arives it's best not to leave the setup unmonitored for a while. Rather switch the tank when you see it's about empty, as you experienced spoiling a day or 2 worth of co2 is cheaper and much less unpleasant than losing all your livestock.

A less cheaper prevention is the use of a PH controler which shuts off the solenoid. I know there probably will follow some replies with very negative views and opinions about PH controlers.. Which i yet didn't experience after using one for over a year. So i can not share nor disagree whit these negative additude towards PH controlers.. I only experienced bennefits till now, but this is also because i bought it extremely cheap to begin with. A pitty, new from the lfs are way to expensive for the service they provide, but certainly prevent an end of tank dump and or irregular bubble counts. :)
 
Thanks zozo. I like your idea of using a weight scale and I think I'll definitely use one if I set up again and I'll check out the pH controllers. As you rightly said it does not matter if you lose some CO2, I'd much rather that than dead fish.
 
You say you've been using the cylinder for several months but only just started EI dosage? You've changed to an in-line diffuser which will increase your dissolved CO2. Do you have a bubble counter? This isn't a way of meassuring dissolved co2 just the rate you're injecting into tank. Any time you touch the filter co2 system you should make sure you haven't knocked the valve. Even a slight twist of the valve can increase the CO2 dramatically.

Another rules is never mess with the CO2 unless you're in the house for several hours to monitor the tank.

I've never experienced a CO2 dump with my single stage regulator for CO2art.
 
Hi EnderUK and thanks for your reply.

You say you've been using the cylinder for several months but only just started EI dosage?

Yes I've been using the cylinder for a few months. I hadn't started EI dosing was going to start that this weekend.

You've changed to an in-line diffuser which will increase your dissolved CO2. Do you have a bubble counter?

When I changed to the inline reactor I monitored the tank and it was fine. I do have a bubble counter and I was getting lime green in my drop checker with approx 5-6 bps. Also, I'm certain I haven't knocked anything on the regulator as I only open the cupboard door to check the pressure and bubble rate. The only adjustment I didn't make was to the pressure in the regulator's second stage when I changed the diffuser. The inline atomiser requires around 3 bar to function whereas the reactor does not.
 
I'd contact CO2Art then (they seem to have great customer service) - this should NOT have happened & you definitely don't want a repeat, so I'd request that CO2Art check the regulator performance (hopefully they can send you out a replacement to use interim)

Again so sorry for your losses :(
 
I'd contact CO2Art then (they seem to have great customer service) - this should NOT have happened & you definitely don't want a repeat, so I'd request that CO2Art check the regulator performance (hopefully they can send you out a replacement to use interim)

Again so sorry for your losses :(
I'd agree. Surely they have ways of testing EOTD.
 
Not so long ago a regular dual stage looked rather like this
VictorTwoStageRegulatorDesign-1.jpg


Nowadays they come so tiny, when i see them i have difficulty to believe they are dual stage.. Obviously the modern way of sizing these things goes with the cost of quality.. :(
 
I'd contact CO2Art then (they seem to have great customer service) - this should NOT have happened & you definitely don't want a repeat, so I'd request that CO2Art check the regulator performance (hopefully they can send you out a replacement to use interim)

Again so sorry for your losses :(

I'd agree. Surely they have ways of testing EOTD.

Cheers Guys. I'm begining to think it's a fault with regulator so I'll contact CO2art tomorrow and discuss it with them. There's an air accessories shop down the road from me so I'm going to go down and see if some type of valve can be fitted after the regulator as a fail safe.
 
That certainly looks like a quality bit of kitt zozo. I guess that's another option, spend more money on a regulator as it should , in theory, be on one off purchase.
 
Hello,

Alkm, I'm really sorry to hear you lost all your livestock.

Looking at your case, I need to say, this is something we need to investigate what exactly happened. From what I can see there is a lot of different factors (new diffuser, FE which was running out, quite high pressure for reactor, etc) which could affect your livestock.

Please contact us directly (support@co2art.co.uk) so we can go through everything with you.

In regard to question you asking I can confirm that this is dual stage regulator. As we mentioned on many different occasions, we designed this regulator for aquatic use. This is why everything is much smaller than in normal industrial dual stage regulator.

Best regards
Karol
 
Many thanks for your reply Karol. I'll contact you as soon as I gat a chance today.
 
I thought I'd post a quick update.

I have to say that CO2art has outstanding customer service. I will be sending the regulator back to them so that they can recreate the conditions that happened in my aquarium (minus the fish). I have decided to set up a new low tech tank as I don't feel comfortable with a high tech set up until I understand what went wrong. I was thinking about setting up a second low tech tank anyway, as I've been reading the excellent book by Diana Walstad, so may as well use the tank I've got.

I'd like say thankyou to everyone who replied to me - your input is greatly appreciated :).
 
Hi all,
All the fish and amano shrimp in my tank were dead. I feel absolutely gutted, I had a vibrant community of fish and shrimp and now the tank is lifeless. I don't know what I'm going ot do next, I love the hobby but there's no way I'm setting up a CO2 system until I undersstand what went wrong and how this can be avoided.
Bad luck. This is why I'm not a CO2 user.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi all,Bad luck. This is why I'm not a CO2 user.

cheers Darrel

I assume you also don't drive a car, because other people have had accidents in them, or go out in the rain in case you get struck by lightning :p :)

But more seriously, I've read a fair few accounts over the years of external filters leaking and tank seals failing, should I play it safe and stop using those too?

I've used CO2 regulators for many years, including the single stage CO2Art ones, and never had anything like this happen, so sadly it appears this was probably just a freak event, and shouldn't really be viewed as a reason to avoid using CO2.
 
Hi all,
I assume you also don't drive a car, because other people have had accidents in them, or go out in the rain in case you get struck by lightning :p :)

But more seriously, I've read a fair few accounts over the years of external filters leaking and tank seals failing, should I play it safe and stop using those too?
It is different when you can make your own decisions. I've played Rugby and it doesn't get much more stupid than that.

I've killed plenty of fish, via avoidable carelessness, but I'm getting better.

I now take a <"risk management approach to livestock welfare."> I've tried to remove any single points of failure.
I've used CO2 regulators for many years, including the single stage CO2Art ones, and never had anything like this happen, so sadly it appears this was probably just a freak event, and shouldn't really be viewed as a reason to avoid using CO2.
My argument would be you don't need to use CO2, if you choose to it is an extra risk for your fish that is entirely avoidable.

It is personal choice whether you use CO2, I don't because I wouldn't find it easy to forgive myself if I gassed the fish that I have a duty of care for.

It isn't about their financial value, or anything else, if you keep a pet you have a duty of care to look after its welfare to the best of your ability.

cheers Darrel
 
But no way it is bad luck, it is all about responsibility and taking your chances ignoring this..

It is rather tricky to be realy honnest and politicaly correct about this hobby without kicking shins. ;)

But lets define what we all actualy are doing here.

We keep living tropical creatures in a confined space and try to keep it alive to the best of our knowledge with relying on set of electrical and or technical equipment.

All this comes with great responsibility..

Now because this practice of keeping animals in general is difined as a hobby instead, the resposibility involved gets trivialized to a certain degree. It is a bit downsized to a personal opinion and a personal feeling of what and how important it is for you, instead of a serious obligation.

The whole marketing concept behind it making it so easily available to the public isn't realy helping.. Anyone getting a brainfart can start experimenting without anybody asking a single question. The trade also has the liberty of ignoring any involved responsibility, producing inferior products for you to rely on and take your chances, you might get lucky.. :rolleyes::lol:

No pun intended this is a just generalization nothing more nothing less.

Same goes for driving cars.. Also here the responsibilities are completely lost in the process.. We all drive around in our killer cooky jar like maniacs. If you want to drive a humvee able to go 300 mph... No problem mate it is your own responsibility to treat it with respect.. If you crash and kill a dosen others.. Bad luck mate.. Wrong place, wrong time..

The whole world needs to be reeducated about responsibility.. There is no pointing finger, we all equaly as guithy.

If there no longer comes electrical power out of our walls we all are busted.. But as long as we have this, we can keep risks to a minimum. It's your responsibilty to know how to do this before you start in the first place.. Failing to think of something you didn't know is far from bad luck. Calling it bad luck is a demagogical plaster on the wound.. Deal with it and ...

Good luck.. :thumbup:
 
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