90P from Norway

[alto]

Any "shoaling" species will always display better (more "normal" or intricate behaviours) in larger numbers,
eg rasboras display different/more complex behaviours when kept in a shoal of 18 - 20, than if a small group of 8-10

Seriously Fish is a great place to start when considering various fish species, eg
Sawbwa resplendens

aggressive interactions between rival males
Though gregarious by nature it exhibits shoaling rather than schooling behaviour. Males tend to be engaged in a continual battle for dominance, particularly when maintained in small numbers or in the presence of few females.

The best way to minimise this behaviour is to purchase more females than males; a ratio of 4:1 or more being ideal. Unfortunately females can be hard to find on sale because exporters often prefer to ship only the more colourful males.

So if you do want to keep these fish, I'd wait until tank is well grown in before adding them, & then add rather more than 4 (even if all males) as this should spread the aggression & lessen the likelihood of particular fish being targeted ... note including these fish may mean too much "activity" for the B brigittae (& the various species which often ship under the same name) which can be quite a timid species

B brigittae - I'd not consider keeping these in less than a group of 25 - 35, they really can be timid, especially in brightly lit planted tanks (if you look about here, you'll find a few threads commenting on their extreme hiding)

Harlequin "type" rasboras - definetly get 18- 20 of these for fantastic shoaling/schooling displays, they'll range everywhere in the tank, then suddenly appear in formation etc
(I had the purple morph & they are stunning with their brilliant orange - gold heads & dark bodies)

Rams - of any color - I'd begin with 6-8 & hope for some compatible "pairs" (note in the wild these fish only pair bond for the spawning/brood care & then will often partner with different fish for the subsequent spawning), often people will remove all except for a single pair, I prefer to keep these fish in a group in a larger tank (90 cm minimum with lots of cover etc)
Most recently I purchased 7 electric blue rams, ended up with 2 females & 4 males, which were great until I managed to introduce some illness into the tank ending up with 1 female & 2 males ... now they are all in separate tanks (they are too pretty to return to the shop & I didn't like the quality of available blue's to increase group #)
Even in a heavily planted 90 cm tank, it's possible to have a single dominant male (or female) decide to take over so it's good to have backup plans with these fish
I'd consider these to be more bottom - mid oriented, though they will travel everywhere
AND they may decide to go shrimp hunting so I'd get shrimp established first

Shrimp - again I'd begin with 10 - 12 minimum of each species/type ... I love the Tigers! they get my vote as best clean up crew (harder to breed in my tanks than the various cherry types)

P ranga - I'd add these after all other fish are established, here, again, depending which species actually appears in dealer tanks, you may get a smaller fish or a rather larger fish (Seriously Fish offers some discussion on this I believe)

 

[Ben Gibson]

Let's talk fishes!
I made the following list. It might be too many fishes, or too many species.... feel free to comment

I'm not sure about the boraras, do they really stay close to the surface? Or maybe I could reduce their number.
To reduce the number of species, I could also remove the amandae and put more hengeli ?!

Anyone would know if the golden ram could eat the small red crystal shrimps?

Love your setup btw. I'm quite new to the hobby and fish keeping but have had dwarf rasbora for 3 weeks now and they never surface. They do tend to stay midway up the tank all the time though if that helps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[kpdp54]

Thanks for the tips Alto (and Ben)! I feel like you have a massive tank when you mention how many fishes you would take for each species

Not sure my LFS can get me female Sawbwa resplendens, and I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of the female one... So maybe I will only get 1 or ask my LFS to order many and choose the quiet ones!
Same things for the Ram, pretty sure my LFS can order many and select a good pair for the tank! It helps a lot when the LFS people are nice or your friends

I removed the B brigittae from my list! I checked the 4-5 topics about these fishes and you are right: they will most likely hide all the time in such community tank! And I guess I won't see them from far away (=my sofa). I might give a try later if I have another tank to put them as back-up.

Do I need so many shrimps? 30 sounds like a lot for a 90x45x45 no? Especially if they reproduce later no? Or maybe they don't live long? (I just checked, 2-3 years apparently).
I read that George Farmer is getting 100 for his 120x60x45. So maybe 30 is the right number.

The P. Ranga at my LFS look quite small. it might be the smaller specie I think.

Also, I discovered the Electric Blue Hap (Sciaenochromis fryeri). What a fish! I used to hate cichlids but I'm starting to change my mind!
I guess my tank is a bit too small for one male? Also they seem to like sand (only for reproduction?) and less acidic water from what I can read around
Tell me it's a very bad idea

Here is the updated list:

And a progress picture:
(you can clearly see the shadow in the left corner )

 

[kpdp54]

Here is what I found coming home after two weeks

I am still fighting algea which deposits on the plantes almost daily
The worst being of course on the unhappy cuba with weak roots. I see all the new cuba going to the trash every time I try to brush them.
Two quick picture of what I get after two days:

I spend roughly an hour everyday scraping algea.
Any tips?

On a positive note, I made a temporary carton board to support the lights. Work pretty good so far.

I have been using AlgExit and pouring some liquid CO2 on algea but it doesn't seem to work that well. Except on the delicate moss at the center.
Lights are now 7 hours a day with a 1h peak with 100% intensity (they pearl very well).

I tested the water two days after a 100% water change and got the following:
PO4: 0,3 mg/l
NO3: 12,5 mg/l

So it looks like I don't achieve the 1:10 ideal ratio. Of course my LFS doesn't have anything so I'll have to get the ADA product. I guess Step 1 and K.

Any tips would be appreciated

 

[JackMartins]

For the initial photos, it is visible that you have algae in suspension. Try to reduce the photoperiod (6h).
If don't work, try a bump of CO2 + lights off 24h (do some PH test as this may fluctuate this parameter)

Algae usually come from leak or excess of nutrients. In your case I believe it is excess(good light/substrate/specs in general) that all the plants are not using.
Some floating plant (temporary) may help as well.

 

[kpdp54]

Lights adjusted, Step1 & K from ADA Norge as well as Fosfo ordered

 

[alto]

So it looks like I don't achieve the 1:10 ideal ratio.

Likely many people don't - for sure not me

I'm reading this journal as you set up the tank & the had to leave for 2 weeks - daily water changes during this time?

The card suspension kit does give much better placement of the lights, monitor for heat though as these intense LED can get very hot.

The tank looks good after your clean up!
You've no fish etc so I would just leave the CO2 running 24/7 during this time - you might lower the CO2 rate outside the actual photoperiod but maintain some CO2, especially if tank receives ambient light (I believe you 're running an evening photoperiod).
You might also pay attention to when you're doing the water changes & tank clean up, re consideration of CO2 & light balance etc - once plants & tank are established this is less relevant.
(I've not noticed any correlation in my own tanks but it's often commented by others here)

I've not done any of the "blackouts" to limit/kill algae but it is often suggested on this forum (& others) - you might start a new topic in the Algae subforum

I have been using AlgExit and pouring some liquid CO2 on algea but it doesn't seem to work that well. Except on the delicate moss at the center.

be careful of liquid CO2 & any algecides in the vicinity of mosses, mosses can be difficult

Growing Mosses offers some good discussion

Electric Blue Hap (Sciaenochromis fryeri). What a fish!

You could add this fish if you don't mind that he would likely eat every other smaller fish on your list & the shrimp
& he would likely dig up rather a lot of plants
Anything African is best left to specialized tank set ups, also if you want fish that look anything like the photos, you need to source with care (many hybrids & poor quality fish litter the trade) & maintain them appropriately, and often the photos are from a single/few dominant males (many females are indifferent grey/muddy fish) ...

Not sure my LFS can get me female Sawbwa resplendens, and I have to admit, I'm not a big fan of the female one... So maybe I will only get 1 or ask my LFS to order many and choose the quiet ones!

Choosing the quiet ones is still a hit & miss ... they may be quiet as they're not feeling quite right or because the Bosses are exerting influence - anything can still change once home
I suspect that a single fish will not provide much of a display
You're likely best adding 12 or so as this will diffuse aggression among the Sawbwa & they will be unlikely to harass other fish when they have so much to quarrel about among themselves - wait until the stems are grown in before adding these fish.

Rams - adding a proven pair is one thing, a short term pair that has apparently bonded in the lfs tank is easily broken; also in the wild these fish do not (generally) form long term pair bonds but instead may spawn with new partners after the first brood is done or if something interrupts the first spawn attempts ... though you may get lucky with your first "pair"

(I'm not saying don't try anything that appeals to you - this is your adventure! - but don't be surprised when fish have their own ideas )

 

[JackMartins]

Lights adjusted, Step1 & K from ADA Norge as well as Fosfo ordered

Which Program/Equipment is this image from?

 

[Gage Harford]

The tank and scape look great. Yanking out HC Cuba with clumps of algae is heart breaking. I just went through it on a 2.5gal nano Iwagumi. Here is my 2 cents on a fix for the algae:
Lighting at 50% power for 6hrs/day for a couple of weeks, then ramp up the power from there.
Daily water changes for a week, twice weekly after that until it is under control.
Full dosing of whatever method you have chosen.

As for fish choices:
I love Boraras briggittae, a large shoal of them would be nice, they get bright red and hang out very near the surface, always patrolling like little drones, not a lot of personality though.
Sawbwa resplendens are perhaps my favorite fish but continue to be a challenge for me. Often they come in to my shops with internal parasites and need to be treated in QT. Once I get over that hurdle I feed a mix of live food, flakes, pellets, frozen food, then BAM! they quit eating, usually the males. So now I am hatching brine shrimp daily. Beautiful fish though when they are healthy.
Harlequin rasboras are also great looking and hands down the best schooling fish I have ever kept.
Microrasbora erythromicron are beautiful fish that I think get passed over for Danio Margaritatus (also really nice).
I am guilty of stocking tanks with a lot of different fish that I like and it ends up looking like a disorganized zoo. Large schools/shoals of a few species is the way to go in my opinion.

Cheers!

 

[kpdp54]

Alto>

During my two weeks of absence, my flatmate changed 1/3 of the water every 2-3 days. Probably 6 times in total, but no brushing or anything else.
The lamps have some good (and a bit noisy) fans, so they don't overheat the carton, I checked
So you would advice like one of my friend to actually have the CO2 checker in the yellow?
I sprayed liquid carbon on the algae after my 100% water change, so it seems they have enough: the cuba is pearling like crazy.
I will try the blackout once I am set with fertilisation: I just tested my water after my 100% water change 24h ago : no phosphate, no nitrate... same as tap water!
So I guess the "big" releases from the soil are over, I need to do a correct fertilisation. The plants are also looking bad, the leaf get some spots, less colours, etc...

I read a lot more on the fish species. This blue harp is now out of the "why not" list. It would be a carnage as you said
OK, so I will wait for the Sawbwa R. until everything is setup properly. But since I will already have many other fishes, it is unlikely that I buy so many, it's not a 600 litres
For the Ram I could it be a "good" idea to have two different ones? One golden and one normal? Or that doesn't change a thing? Otherwise, I can ask my LFS to find a pair and isolate them to see.
In the end, I could just have one to avoid all these troubles...

Which Program/Equipment is this image from?

It is from the Radion manufacturer: online access. But you need to buy a wifi module for £100. (plus some EU adaptor, hahaha ). But after that you even have phone control.

The tank and scape look great. Yanking out HC Cuba with clumps of algae is heart breaking. I just went through it on a 2.5gal nano Iwagumi. Here is my 2 cents on a fix for the algae:

Thanks for the tips!
My poor cuba is coming in pieces... it's hell of a test to see if you can keep your calm: I'm swearing so much during each clean-up
I am doing a small tank on the side with Elatine Hydropiper as a carpet: they are so strong and anchored in the soil compare to the cuba! If algae keeps coming, the cuba is gonna meet the fjords and the Elatine take over!
Is it that common to put every new fishes in quarantine? I am not used to it. Not enough to inspect them at the LFS and trust the seller? Hmmm, I'll have to read about it then.

We discussed the Boraras briggittae above, they will most likely not appreciate all the other fishes...
Microrasbora erythromicron looks really good, yes. I might add some danios as well depending on how space is left

 

[Gage Harford]

Quarantining all new fish is a great idea but not always possible. Problems might develop that were not obvious at the fish store. Dedicated QT tanks are more popular in the saltwater side of the hobby.
I love me some danios too! Leopard, glolight, and my current favorite tinwini.

 

[alto]

But since I will already have many other fishes, it is unlikely that I buy so many, it's not a 600 litres

just change more water

I've a similar sized tank (90 x 45 x 55 high) & find it does fine with ~ 20 Sphaerichthys osphromenoides & ~ 30 Microdevario kubotai & 8 Sundadanio axelrodi 'blue' (the color variants have been sorted as species since, but most trade lists hold to the 'blue' 'red' & 'green' forms), assorted shrimp, sometimes a few otocinclus (they tend to move between tanks) & a Betta boy ... admittedly the kubotai & axelrodi are finer build than your T hengeli
- but you'll see how things feel once you've the first fishes & shrimp added

You've chosen a rather large whiptail cat Sturisomatichthys aureus so may need to allocate more tank "space" than with the smaller whiptails

I doubt you or the Sawbwa will be happy with the 3-4 you've allocated so it might be better to give these fish a miss until you want to dedicate more tank "space" to them.

You can mix ram "colors" (please steer clear of the balloon types for health reasons - the fish, not yours )

So you would advice like one of my friend to actually have the CO2 checker in the yellow?

I don't think you can really add too much CO2 for plants, but when you want to add livestock, plan to reduce the CO2 over a couple weeks rather than abruptly.

Quarantining new fish is always recommended but often not that practical - look at shop stock carefully, know when fish arrived, how are they eating, suitably active etc
Know how shop maintains their tanks (system or individually filters, UV (& level) & if they'll hold back sales when fish are not feeling great
Often shops are subject to whatever ships in, eg fish arrive apparently well, a few days later all are covered in ich or decidedly unwell with no obvious symptoms

Plan your fish additions, do frequent water changes before/after new additions, have some meds on hand so you can start treatment early (& not have to wait for shops to open or get medications delivered in), make sure to choose fish that are suited to your tank & current tankmates - stress if a significant problem for fish as their immune system becomes depressed.
Do your research into fish's behaviour - while you can watch fish in shops, they are often under such different conditions as to display misleading activity/behaviour; also shop fish are often juveniles

 

[kpdp54]

Nice species you mentioned there! I only knew the Kubotai. That "glitter" fish, wow
It's more the visual aspect than the health/well being of the fish I am worried about. I like many species but also know the overall scape will not look good with a ton a fish. I'll have to see once I add the main shoaling species.

Ah, ballon ram! That's the cute one I saw in a video! Alright, I'll stay out of it!
I found the following on Yahoo:

Best Answer: as Lindsay said, these balloon rams are a genetic disaster. much like fancy goldfish and balloon mollies, these are a genetic anomaly that breeders have bred back into the fish, NOT any kind of hybrid.
they will even more sensitive to water quality issues than regular rams, and due to their stunted body shape, prone to internal problems such as constipation (which can then lead to other internal disorders such as swimbladder problems) so would have to be fed very carefully and not be kept with anything that may remotely bully it.
as for the long-finned varieties, i don't see the point in unnatural long-fins on a fish that could potentially be nippy, as many cichlids are, it's just opening a whole can of worms right there. a nipped or torn fin can lead to infection that, if left untreated, can be fatal.
personally i would say, don't buy these fish, if you're intent on rams, buy the regular variation, not longfinned and not balloon, the sooner people stop buying these hideous deformed creatures the sooner stores will stop stocking them!

I always plan carefully new orders at my LFS: order on Monday morning, delivery Friday before lunch, and picked at 5pm

There is an error in my list! The algae eater should actually be a Red whiptail catfish. That makes more sense now

 

[kpdp54]

Alright I received my "chemistry kit"
Time to get things balanced again and make the plants grow!

I added the double recommendation of K and Step1 yesterday (one after the other as recommended by a friend). Then tested the water 2h later: seems that Step1 doesn't contain much phosphate. isn't it?
I guess I will balance it with phosphate in a few days if I see no change on plants/algae.

 

[AndyMcD]

Floating plants helped me to get more balance (I had real problems with hair algae - advice from DW1305).

As they have access to unlimited CO2, they can help soak up excess nutrients. They also create some shade.

One pot of Tropica 1-2 would be enough and it won't increase risk of imported algae or snails.

In my tank, at the beginning, the floating plants multiplied really quickly and I was removing about half each week. You can easily remove all, once algae issue has reduced.

I've just skim read this thread, so apologies if this has already been discussed.

 

[kpdp54]

Good idea in itself!
But my main understanding is that I got the algae due to strong nutrient build-up from lack of water change, as well as wrong light exposure for the first two weeks. Then I went to the opposite condition: plenty of 100% water change and no fertilisers depleted the tank from plant nutrients... and the plants are doing bad right now. They haven't grown much since I have cut them and started the big water changes (9 days!). I can also see some spotting here and there...

So I must first give the plant something to eat: the soil only release nutrients for the algae at the moment (or it looks like it )
Potassium (K) is first priority for the roots: it should have been added since day one apparently. Oops.
Then build up some nitrate (NH3) via the soil (no more big water change) + some Tropica green if needed.
Adjust the phosphate (PO4) with Fosfo since none of my ADA products have it.
And put some trace elements via Step1 or Tropica yellow.

If I get poor results with Tropica green+Fosfo, I will buy the ADA Green Brighty Special LIGHTS.


edit: a good link with analysis from the ADA products

 

[AndyMcD]

You're right.

Floating plants helped me with your first issue, excess light, excess nutrients and not enough water changes.

With insufficient nutrients probably the last thing you need are floating plants!

I knew I should have read the thread properly! Sorry.

 

[kpdp54]

No worry at all

Here is the updated fish list.
I replaced the Panga by his smaller cousin, change the algae eater, and decided to go only with Amano shrimp (LFS told me his Tiger shrimps do not look good and the cherry could be picked by the cichlids).

 

[kpdp54]

Little update!
The tank is now almost 6 weeks old.
I supply ADA K + Step1 daily (8 squirts each) and Tropica green once a week (15 squirts).
I added 20ml of Fosfo one time and since the algae decreased the next I stupidly added another 25ml and got more algae afterwards, even one cyano spot in the cuba... So now I stick to only the 3 products above.
The support for the light started to bend so I made a new one yesterday, this time much stronger and smaller to facilitate maintenance.

I added 15 Amano shrimps and 6 Otocinclus. The fishes are fine and excited but a few shrimps died I think. They don't really touch the algae on the cuba: only glass/wood/soil

Finally, I removed all the grass-like plants: they were developing way too much! They would have taken over the cuba... I also removed some of the moss: they were still no attached to the wood and catching the light for others.

Here are a few photos: