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starting a 330g planted discus tank

snowman1235

Seedling
Joined
26 Jul 2016
Messages
3
Location
Slovenia
Hi all,
I've had discus aquariums for many years, but in simple and small settings, starting with 50g and moving 100g about 8 years ago. Now I am planing a ~330g "dream" project. I would really appreciate some advise from people more experienced with larger tanks here.

A) EXTERNAL VIEW:
Full_Size_Render_3.jpg

- The external dimensions of the entire set-up are 243x78x265 cm
- Aquarium external size is 243x65x80cm; this gives approx. 1250L – 330g volume.
- the aquarium is a “window” inside a white wooden cabinet, which looks like an extension of the walls from left and right; on the right side the wall continues into the kitchen and on the left side, there is a glass sliding door that slides behind the cabinet
- the cabinet is made from a steel cage construction with wooden panels / doors mounted on it
- immediately above aquarium there will be one cabinet “door” across the entire 240cm length (and 40cm in height), which would open upwards (vertically) to allow for aquarium maintenance; at the top of this 40cm opening there will be the first shelf and below the shelf a LED lighting fixture will be installed.
- above and below the aquarium there will be standard cabinet doors (4x 60cm wings)

B) INTERNAL CONSTRUCTION:
Full_Size_Render_2.jpg

- the cabinet is made around a “steel cage” which gives strength to the construction. 4cm wide steel will be used.
- 5 vertical steel lines are at the back to hold the cage and 3 vertical lines are in front (to allow easy access to the cabinet); there is no steel connecting the front part where the aquarium “slides” in… the entire upper part is held with the vertical steel lines at the back
- the bottom part (rack to hold the aquarium) is 70cm tall from floor to the base of the aquarium; this includes: 2x 4cm for steel and on top of the steel rack there is a 4cm wood panel and on top of that a 0,5cm foam layer; aquarium then sits on top of the foam layer.
- the length of the aquarium is 243cm, but the length of the steel frame is 240cm; this allows for a 1cm “sound insulating” foam on each side plus 0,5cm wood cabinet cover. Therefore, the steel frame is slightly shorter than the actual aquarium length
- equally, the width of the aquarium is 65 cm, but the width of the steel cage is 67,5: 4cm steel frame at the back of the aquarium, and 63,5cm steel frame underneath the aquarium, which allows for additional 1,5cm for sound isolation and wooden cabinet doors in front.
- the entire steel construction cabinet stands 9cm away from the wall; this is because on the left side of the cabinet there is a hallway and there is a glass sliding door mounted there which slides behind the cabinet (small sketch at the bottom right); the glass door has 1,9cm space from the wall, then there is 5,7cm frame of the sliding door and 1,4cm space from the steel frame of the cabinet; total distance from the wall to the steel frame of the cabinet is, therefore, 9cm. The sliding glass door slides 144cm behind the aquarium, leaving 99cm space on the right hand side for plumbing.
- Including this 9cm distance from the wall, the side of the cabinet has a 73cm width, which includes 65cm length of the aquarium, 4cm steel frame and 9cm space.
- Aquarium is made from 15mm glass; the 243x65x80(70) is the external dimension of the aquarium; internal dimension is reduced for the thickness of the glass.

C) PLUMBING AND SUMP: A view from the rear side of the aquarium
Full_Size_Render.jpg

- a the rear one can see the aquarium (top) and the sump (bottom) and the plumbing between
- the sump is laid on a 4cm wooden base plate which is on the iron cage construction
- the sump’s external dimensions are 120x50x50cm with 1cm thick glass
- the aquarium will have 4 x 1,5” holes drilled at the top: 2 holes for the “overflow” system and 2 holes for the return pipes
- 2 overflow pipes are going into the sump (left) and one is going directly into the drain (in the wall behind the aquarium); on the main overflow pipe (full syphon), there is a “Union ball” valve to control the flow (not drawn)
- the overflow will be Reef Savvy 24” or Synergy “ghost overflow” style
- the return pipe comes from the right side of the sump from the pump; the return pipe is split with a Y split and then goes to left and right side of the aquarium where a 1,5” hole is drilled; before the Y split, there is also a “Union ball” valve to control the flow (not drawn)
- the return pipe will be Red Dragon 3 Mini Speedy with 5m3/h (1300gph) flow
- where necessary, all pipes should have 45 degree angles – no 90 degree elbows (except at entry/exit of tank)
- in the sump there are also 2 heaters and next to it there is a CO2 reactor which connects to the return pipe

AUTOMATIC WATER CHANGE:
- in the left side of the sump there will be a small additional pump connected to a timer; this pump will pump the water out through a separate hose directly into the drain
- in the right side of the sump there is an incoming hose with fresh water coming in; this hose has a solenoid valve connected to an optical water sensor; when water sensor detects water level drop, the solenoid valve opens and fresh water flows in.

Main questions / concerns:
- please comment on the general plumbing set-up; am I missing something important? Would some modification of this design be more optimal?
- Where should the holes be drilled for the return pipes to enter the aquarium? I am worried about potential power failure – is there a situation where the holes are drilled too low, and the power failure causes the pump to stop and the water to flow back into the sump, overflooding it?? What are measures to prevent this?
- how to properly plug-in the CO2 system / reactor? I want a nicely planted discus tank and would like to ensure sufficient CO2; but I do not want this to limit too severely the flow rate.
- I have a nice unused 36W Aquamedic Helix Max UV steriliser… I wanted to install this as well on the return pipe, but I do not see many UV sterilisers being used any longer… What is a general consensus? Should I install it in addition to the CO2?

Any comments / thoughts / suggestions HIGHLY appreciated! :)
 
If you are going to use the UV be aware of you put in on the pump return you may loose flow
I'd prefer to put it on a separate pump rated to suit the uv, the water can be pumped into the aquarium or back to the first filter chamber (this is called a bypass filter) and this is very efficient

Or you could consider installing it on the return from the aquarium, split the pipe into two and have one go to the filter and other through the uv


Regards
Dean
 
Awsone project.. :thumbup:
Regarding the auto fill devices. :) Does the sump have an overflow too? If the solenoid ever fails to shut (calcium deposite) or just starts to leak (drip) due to a damaged seal.
The same way as a toillet reservior has, these taps with floater also almost always start to leak once in a while. :)
 
I had an auto fill on my discus set up. Consider putting a large enough overflow on the sump so it can handle a power cut.

I just pumped fresh water into the dump 24/7 and let the overflow keep the level set. Cost abit buy was worth it to grow out the discus

Awesome project!
 
power failure causes the pump to stop and the water to flow back into the sump, overflooding it??
Hi, I've just setup a 350 litre tank with a 90 litre sump and I'm facing the same issue with the potential for a flood in a powercut. There are a couple of things you can do to ensure this doesn't happen, I've got a non return valve on the tank return to stop water flowing back down the tank return pipe and I have a sump with enough capacity to take the water that would flow down the overflows before the water level drop enough so it stop flowing down the overflows.

On my tank after setting everything up and doing the testing I've realised I don't have enough capacity with my current sump setup to stop the sump flooding during a powercut and after some thought I've come up with 3 options to stop this happening on my sump -

1 - change the arrangement of my sump so I have enough capacity to take the amount of water that would flow down during a powercut.
2 - part cover the bottom of my weir inlet so that less water flows back in a powercut
3 - have a hinged flap at the top of my weir which is opened by the waterflow of the pump and closes when the pump stops which would seal the weir inlet shut allowing only the water in the weir section to drain into the sump. Given your return pipe layout you wouldn't be able to do this but you might be able to hook up a float switch on the sump and a solenoid on overflow which closes a flap.

The simplest option is to ensure you have enough space in you sump, if you can calculate how much water would flow down the return before it stops you know how much space you need in you sump and you could adjust they layout to suit.
 
Aquarium external size is 243x65x80cm

have you thought about how you will access the front of the tank (assuming access is only from back of the tank) especially once grown in/hardscape etc
Braces?

Are you building the tank as well?

This sounds an extraordinary project!
 
If you are going to use the UV be aware of you put in on the pump return you may loose flow

Indeed, I am fully aware of that. Not sure yet how to fully arrange things yet; same issue is with CO2 reactor; I'm thinking of doing a manifold immediately after the the return pump: one line going directly back into the aquarium, one line going first through the CO2 and UV and then back to the aquarium; on the manifold I could control the waterflow on the second line; the Red Dragon pump gives 1300gph, which should be more than enough for 330g tank and if I loose some on one of the return lines because of the CO2 reactor and UV, that may still be enough. Will have to think about how also the water moves then inside the aquarium to make sure I have the right flow with no dead spots....

Regarding the auto fill devices. :) Does the sump have an overflow too?
I had an auto fill on my discus set up. Consider putting a large enough overflow on the sump so it can handle a power cut.
Hi, I've just setup a 350 litre tank with a 90 litre sump and I'm facing the same issue with the potential for a flood in a powercut.

Thanks for the comments... I've been looking into this; so the ghost overflow will be placed as recommended from the top so that the sump will have enough reserve to take the water that would be drained. Also I realise now I need to place my return pipes ABOVE the ghost overflow holes for the same reason. In addition, regarding autofill / water change I am indeed looking into potentially just doing it the "brainless" way to just cut a large hole near the top of the sump (or above the waterline) and connect it via a large pipe to the drain; then just have the fresh water coming in on a timer - e.g. 50L during the night; these same 50L will spill through the hole and go into the drain; no water level sensor or solenoid required. Just have to make sure I'm not missing something important here...

Check out my 1000+ journal, It's almost the same but without the discus.

Beautiful aquarium and very interesting read. I wasn't able to pick up properly in your thread, but did you make an open top tank? Enclosure with your closet to prevent fish jumping over, but I am guessing there is no glass cover? Did you take any measures to protect your closet (I am guessing it is wood-based?) from humidity and water evaporation? How did you ensure sufficient ventilation of the space above the tank?

Also, would you be willing to share your final sketch of the sump and the tech around the sump - i.e. how your CO2, UV and other stuff is connected to the sump / pipes?

have you thought about how you will access the front of the tank (assuming access is only from back of the tank) especially once grown in/hardscape etc
Braces?
Are you building the tank as well?
This sounds an extraordinary project!

The entire access is from the front; the aquarium is against a wall. So, yes, access will be tricky and I need to do piping very very well, as it is going to be extremely difficult to correct anything once it is in place. As you can see from the first sketch, I will have access through a horizontal closed door, which will open up vertically - sort of like a trap door, with a hinge so it can be locked in the position. I hope that will work ;)

The glass tank will be custom-made by a company specializing in making aquariums here. So all the drilling will already be made by them. I will, of course, do all the installations, scaping etc.

What would you guys suggest for the best CO2 system to use for such tank? ...Particularly, what kind of reactor would be most suitable and, if possible, what would be the best commercially available system? Here I would really try to avoid going the DIY way, as it all looks to technical to me (e.g. all the posts about how to build a Cerges reactor etc.)
 
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I also would like to connect the sump to a tap water conection with a simple float valve (instead of an electrinic level sensor), to keep water level in the sump constant. Indeed very convenient with water evaporation effectin water level in the sump and or with a water change.

but since i do not have an easy way to connect the sump to the sewer with an overflow this unfortunately isn't an option. If the valve ever fails to shut off, the sump will sertainly flood and spill water all over the place.

Instead i placed a floater switch connected to the main pump. If for wathever reason the water level in the sump sinks bellow a given point the pump is switched off. This ofcourse only happens when an overflow gets cloged and changes the drain speed, in such case the pump is filling the tank quicker than it drains. Or if i forget to check the sump water level because of the evaporation.

So that's my alarm system, since there is always a little backflow to the sump when the pump stops and the floater switch already triggerd with 5mm level change. I get notified to check the water level when i see or hear the pump go on and off in a 10 second interval. This also prevents the pump ever from running dry and burn out..

Tho relaying on technical stuff like that requires regular maintenance and cleaning. It already happend once to me, the drain cloged during the night and the dirty floater switch failed to shut off and it burned out the dry running pump. Lesson learned in how to setup a maintenance schedule for the drain and switch, so both never get to dirty at the same time again..

So it actualy requires 2 water levels to take in account, if the power cuts the sump has to take the backflow and if the drain cloges the tank needs to take the sump volume.
It actualy the spare volume of your tank which limits the volume of the sump if the pump stands on the bottom. Or calculate this volume by elevating the pump from the bottom, so your tank never floods when the drain clogs.. All things which are not very likely to happen if all is calculated correctly. But if it does, you rather want to be prepared instead of mopping the floor. :)
 
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Been looking into a sump ideas myself poss using a overflow box on my current tank to get some experiance. But my next tank will def have a sump.
I would say a overflow to waste would be the best idea for your water change. You could use i as a trickle to waste system then or just turn the imput water line on and do your water change that way. Easy. Just vac what ever you need to in the tank while the imput water is flowing in once it reaches your over flow it will go to waste.
With regard to co2 i would look at a needle wheel pump made for skimmers on marine tanks. Think ehiem do them upto 5000 lph flow rate. You can just put your co2 line on the pump infeed and the impeller mixes the co2 into the water no loss of flow.
If you do find you get co2 bubbles reaching the tank. A simple piece of 50mm pipe plumbed in counter current wise on the return to the tank should give the co2 more dwell time on its way back to the tank and dissolve more. With little loss in flow.
 
Personally i would bother with a uv think there counter productive on a aquarium. But if you want one look at a pond one as they are made for much higher flow rates should cause little or no flow restrction.Prob be alot cheaper too.
These are just a few ideas i have for my desgn hope they are of some help.
Grea project you have.Should be fantastic.
 
OK, so would a manifold split and set-up of the return line like this make sense?
If I use flow-control valves on both return lines and the bypas, then I can probably release just enough water through the UV/CO2 line for the flow rate to be most optimal and at the same time the pump would be able to push rest of the water freely through the return lines providing minimal impact on the overall flow?
What do you think?
co2_UV_scheme.jpg


Also, what do you think of this reactor? It would save me a lot of time and hassle from the DIY route:
http://www.us-aquaristikshop.com/co2-reaktoren/co2-aussenreaktor-ar-us50-plus-mit-blasenzaehler.html
co2-aussenreaktor-ar-us50p-1.jpg
 
OK, so would a manifold split and set-up of the return line like this make sense?
Splitting flow doesn't work like this. Most of the water will take the path of least resistance, probably return line with shortest pipe, with little if any flow in the other arms. Yes you can fiddle with valves to equalise the flow, but this will be unstable, a change in temperature, fish poo levels, time of day etc will cause changes in the flow between the arms.

On saying that it is perfectly possible to make use of splitting the flow for the UV and CO2 loop, as variations in flow don't really matter as long as there is flow it will be OK. Splitting would normally be done with something like my picture below.

upload_2016-8-17_11-42-45-png.89053.png

You could also put an inline heater in the loop as as well.
 
nice project
your filtration system is the best for the volume of tank and the good healt of discus
what ph do you envisaged for the discus ?
If you allow me ,from my experience
go to ebay for re saling your co2 system and UV and buy many lot of aquatic plants

dsc03410.jpg
 
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