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Journal Pond on a slope

I would also suggest that you NEVER bury a normal pond filter unless it is a pressurised one which is designed to be buried. Reason being if there is even a slight fluctuation the water will over flow via the filter.

When I mentioned burying the filter I was meaning sinking it into the ground a little so it wasn't as obvious but still have the outter above the pond surface. For a filter I just use a fibreglass or plastic box with an outlet. Fill it full of sponges and it will trap a lot of the debris and detritus without any worry. I also have the pond liner go under and around mine, so if it was to overfill the water would still be going into the pond.
I like it this way as you get some filtration without over filtering and taking the good stuff out and because the filter isn't just a box stuck on the side of the pond you can easily hide it. You could even grow water cress in it.
 
Excellent tips Kipper, thank you. The pink line was actually my estimation of a pre-formed pond I was thinking about. Do people think a liner pond would be better then?
 
Personally I think so.
With a collar you have total control over the water mass, how you want it & installed as I listed you have a much more natural watering hole with easy access for wildlife.

To install the liner lay it out first then fold ends in towards the centre keep folding till it's manageable, you now know the centre of your liner pace it in the centre of your hole & unfold it outwards.
Now when you fill your able to control the folds & creases much better as it fills than if you lay the liner across the hole & let the water take it down into the pond as normally recommended.
Check your excavation for sharp stones then either use an underlay or sand, moist sand can be levelled & smoothed with a plasterers float.

If your having lilies remember they do not like moving water so keep them away from the waterfall.
If need be I'll dig out some photo's of my ponds over the years from "Puddle" to 3000 gallons.
 
Pond liners tend to be cheaper and allow you to change your mind more when developing things. Pre-formed are pretty tough, last ages but can be a pain to dig the hole. I've had both and liked them both so its a personal choice. Now I always go for liner though as it allows me to do a very shallow beach area which is excellent for wildlife. It perfect for birds to drink and let things have an easy way out (had a hedgehog drown in our pond when I was a child and it wasn't pleasant). You can also add extra planting shelf's as these tend to be at a minimum in some moulded units. Frogs also love hiding in the inevitable folds.
 
The other advantage of using a concrete collar when installing a flexible liner is that the pond edges will never collapse / give way over time. But you do have to take your time and make sure the collar will be level before your pour the concrete.
 
Tided up the thread as it was getting out of hand, keep it cool guys we are all a friendly bunch here, and remember there are a lot of people here where English might not be the first language or dyslexic (myself included on both counts) and spelling issues due occur (guilty). :wave::wave:
 
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Personally I am not keen on pond liners full stop!
From a professional pond builders point of view, rubber liners are fraught with problems & almost inevitable 'come backs' from costumers, from a DIY pond owner - builders, view they are great!
Judging by the work completed by Augusta, I can assume he wants this to be a long term, long lasting project. On that basis I would recommend a cement and fiberglass pond.
The method I have used is well within the reaches of most comportment DIY builders....

A hole is dug, the hole is lined with fibre reinforced cement & finally coated with fiberglass.

Fibre cement is mixed using one part cement to three parts course sand with added plastic fibres.
The fibres are the thickness of a human hair & form a very strong, crack resistant end product but... also make the mix very easy to apply directly to the soil sides of the dug out hole.
It is possible to bulk out the mix to fill any irregularities in the ground but, several coats can be applied if necessary.
Some people just coat the bare cement with some form of pond paint but I would highly recommend fiberglassing the cement for a very permanent result.
Obviously this method is far more involved than a liner but also far more desirable and long lasting.
Sand, cement & fibres are not that expensive, fiberglass cost around £20 psm to DIY (where I live).
Butyl 1mm pond liner is around £8 psm but you need underlay on top of that price so around half the cost of fiberglass.
Please ask if you require any more details :)
 
@foxface

Sorry to butt in but you mention longevity of the two. In your experience what kind of time frame are we talking about? Most liners seem to have very long guarantees.
 
Under certain circumstances a good quality pond liner will last for years but, they have a few inherent issues that I don't like.
I am not saying they are not the best option for a lot of people but, a flat sheet does not fit a round hole without ugly folds, these folds are often most noticeable around the top edge & make laying slabs or other types of edging difficult & unstable.
The underwater folds trap dirt, you have to be very carful with any maintenance due to potentially puncturing the liner. Prodding with sticks to remove blanket weed, or walking in the pond with gravel under foot can also cause punctures.
Regardless of guarantees I have found that any liner that is exposed to full sun will be effected by UV and degrade over the years.
If Augusta had not demonstrated his ability's & standard of workmanship then I might not of suggested a cement based pond.
If you just want a small simply wildlife pond then a liner is hard to beat as a quick & easy job.
 
If you go down the concrete path then do not omit adding the fibre reinforcing a must to prevent cracking. (Fibreglass fibres replace the old asbestos fibres found in the old sheets used for garages etc) Most if not all concrete suppliers offer the fibre as an additive but it'll cost you. Alternatively you can but it online & at merchants for your own mixing.

If your concrete is well laid & finished I'd omit the fibre glass (Glass fibres) in the finish coat & just use a resin finish. There are some resins purely to finish concrete ponds.
 
Hi KS, I don't think I mentioned concrete?
I am talking about a different process, rein fibres are hand mixed into a cement base with coarse sand, the fibres are 18mm long & form a unique pliable texture that can be easily manipulated & applied to bare soil, up to 100mm thick on near vertical surfaces.
The fiberglass (GRP) finish is something I would highly recommend as the end result offers an extremely durable & inert shiny surface that is easy to clean, can be virtually any colour, is totally water tight & frost resistant.
However, yes there are many types of paint that could be applied directly to the cement, G4 polyurethane would be my first choice.
I have used this process to build many things apart from ponds.... large Bonsai pots, landscape rocks & my favourite use, forming complex capping stones. You can see a few examples under my signature link 'my day job'
 
My bad, I assumed! Doh! for concrete read mortar / compo/ cement mix.......etc etc.
I keep forgetting things have moved on in 30 years I believe fibre mix came in about the seventies, the old way was to form the pond with concrete & rebar then a smooth render & seal with resin, G4 or the like.
 
Yes that is right, I think it was the early 80s that I first came across the product.
The advertising campaign features block built houses without cement between the blocks, just dry laid 6x9s & then coated in fibre mix inside and out!
Originally fibre mix was mixed in equal parts of sand & cement 'one to one' & I used it in that way for some time but that was an expensive way so we settled on a 3-1 mix.
 
Foxfish, thanks for the fantastic reply, didn't even know this was possible. I'm getting a headache now! :eek:

I must admit from everything you've said it does appeal to me. So any other details/advice would be great.

Does the pond have too be laid all in one day? I'm guessing you lay the base first, let it set so you can stand on it and then do the sides?
"Some people just coat the bare cement with some form of pond paint but I would highly recommend fiberglassing the cement for a very permanent result."
What's the process for fibreglassing the cement, is what you are talking about mixing in fibres with. Or is it something that goes on afterwards?
How thick do you recommend laying it?
Can you use a cement mixer or do the fibres just clog it up?

Thanks
 
Ha Ha glad I piqued your interest :)
Yes you need a mixer, you make the mix accurately using a 3 gallon bucket, 3 x corse sand one x cement and "I cant remember the amount of fibres" 250 grams maybe? I have been retired for a few years now!
So it depends on the size of the hole but you really need to complete the basic shell in one hit, two man job probably, as someone needs to make the mix while someone needs to apply the mix.
.
Once you have made a few mixes it become apparent how much water to add to get the right consistency.
At the end of the day using fibermix is not so different to using standard 4 -1 plaster but it can be applied much thicker and the end result is much stronger.
However you cant polish it with a trowel in the same way as the fibres rise to the surface if you work it to much.

Once the shell is complete and dry you can burn any fibres back with a blow torch.
If you can obtain a minimum thickness of 50mm then that should be strong enough to hold water and not crack however you can take it one step further and apply a coat of Glass reinforced plastic 'GRP'
You can look up GRP tutorials on youtube, there is a lot of technique required but the principle is basic.
You may want to get a quote to apply the GRP but where I live, it is expensive!

I would suggest you buy some fibres and make up a mix to experiment with.
Perhaps you could make the ring around the top of the pond using fibermix and see how you get on.

If you look at my link, you can see some capping stones and large (fake) rocks I made with fibremix..
 
Probably in early 90's I helped my mate make a pond & waterfall feature in his garden.

He made base and waterfall/water run out of bricks and rubble with the "wet" surfaces covered with cement mixed with fibre glass fibres. The cement mix was mixed by hand in large tray with a measured amount of fibres added. This was then applied onto a water proof membrane resting on compacted sand layer. With helpers mixing, pouring and smoothing and cups of tea it was all done in less than a day. He then coated all the cement with I am just sure it was a black resin just painted on, but it may have been proper GRP coating, I wasn't involved at that stage.

Anyway my favourite resin suppliers (see my Avatar) sell these.
http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/c-817-pond-kits.aspx

One other thing he did do is put all the pipe runs (and electrics) in sections of buried drain pipe rather than burying them direct in the soil/water feature so they could be accessed when all complete.
 
Again thanks for the advice. Seems likes it's going to be a lot of work for me! Not the time of year to be doing it either ...have a snow warning in place!
If only I could find a pre-formed pond that had a beach effect built in all my problems would be solved!! :lol:
 
Hi guys,
I've decided I'm going to go for a pond liner :)
Still would like your opinion on a few things... first the current state of play;
Pond Hole 1.jpg


Pond Hole 2.jpg


The side that the spade is leaning against I will be removing another 20cms depth. My plan is to build a wall within the pond, a bit like this....

Pond 3.jpg


The liner will then go behind the stone wall. Will I have any problems with the weight of the stone on the liner? I'm planning on laying a concrete foundation for it and would obviously use extra liner or carpet so the stone isn't actually sitting on it.

The pond measures 2.5m by 1.8m, at the moment the depth at it's deepest is 50cms, I've read 60cms is the best. Should I dig out a bit more?

I was thinking of this pump... http://www.water-garden.co.uk/prod/aquamax-eco-classic-11500
Was talking to one of their reps and he suggested this would be the best for my height and distance ( 5m, 50cms wide stream, and a 1.5m head rise from pond surface to pond surface ). I thought there would be a 'dial' you could turn to adjust the flow but he said there wasn't and suggested this...http://www.water-garden.co.uk/prod/1-12-inch-flow-regulator-including-multi-stage-hosetails

Can you not get pumps that adjust the flow?

What about the liner, does anyone have any recommendations on that, suppose I'll just get the thickest I can afford.

I'm still going to do the concrete collar as suggested by KipperSarnie ...but is there anything else I have overlooked?
Thanks again for your advice ...can't wait til the mud 'disappears' :crazy:
 
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