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T5 Light Bulb Changes

Jakes

Member
Joined
21 Nov 2015
Messages
99
Location
Farnborough
So i knew from reef keeping that fluorescent tubes need changing at-least once a year if not every 8 months.

Got a new tube for my Set-Up and decides to do a side by side comparison:

They are 39W Fluval Power Spectrums top one is 11 months old and the bottom one is New... a picture paints a thousand words.

820a932871d9803335a37fb11382af7a.jpg


Here is another view of the middle of the tubes for what its worth
dfad6e8dfc453ada85ed09611751fdb5.jpg


Hope this convinces someone to change their tubes


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However using Juwel HiLite tubes. Tube on right is 30 months old and one on left is 6 months old. Possible slight differences in brightness, but hardly significant.
8367d9a9-4112-4f97-b3a2-517711f45df6_zpsp97dhl3l-png.3096.png


Why type of ballast are you using ? Modern electronic ballasts and starter should give over 20,000hour before the light starts falling.
 
Also just comparing apparent brightness can be deceiving. Spectrum is also important.

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Why type of ballast are you using ? Modern electronic ballasts and starter should give over 20,000hour before the light starts falling.

Im using a Hagen 'Glow' T5 twin tube ballast also only a year old.




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Well I guess the botanists are wrong too. You clearly know more than they do...

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I took the same sort of picture a while back showing a new tube and one that was almost 2 years old (same tube side by side)

khlh_zps56e4a0e4.png
 
I change bulb's when they burn out and have spares for just such an occasion.
Other than black light,I have yet to try a bulb or combination of bulb's that would not grow plant's in my low tech low light affair's.
Was a thread here at ukaps discussing "Spectrum matter's,or does it" that seem's relevant but I cannot provide the link?:oops:
 
Also just comparing apparent brightness can be deceiving. Spectrum is also important.

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Near any bulb advertised as "Daylight" or "Full Spectrum " will grow the plant's just fine.
Plant's will indeed use whatever light they can.
This is not surprising to most, but is always a matter of debate.
In the wild,plant's may only receive a couple hour's of high noon lighting before the sun moves across the sky and plant's maybe find themselves shaded by other plant's or tree canopy above, and the plant's adapt to take advantage of all lighting lest they never grow large enough to shade other plant's nearby.
Spectrum can be tweaked to make some red plant's appear more red or to make viewing more pleasureable to our eyes,but as mentioned, daylight or full spectrum bulb's will serve the need's of the plant's just fine.
 
If we wanted to maximise plant growth per watt of light then we would use high pressure sodium lights at over 150 lumens/watt (or more), even more efficient than most LEDs. Why do you think DIY cannabis growers use these lights ? Plants would adapt to the high pressure sodium spectrum and get monster growth due to massive light output. The main issue is colour temperature, these are only 2000K and plants look cr*p, lacking green, but hey ho they grow well.

So choose your lamp spectrum to make your plants look good and green and standing out to your eyes. Too higher K value (going above 8000K ?) and plants look bleached and washed out, too lower K value (below 4-5000K ?) and plants look dull. Plants don't really care too much, as explained above, they will make use of what ever light you supply.

Bit surprised the Fluval and Giesemann tubes haven't lasted very long. This is completely contrary to my experience with Juwel and Arcadia HO tubes. Maybe its just an issue with the "plant grow" tubes ?

Below is the life expectancy of an industry standard HO T5 tube, over 20,000 hours before lumen output drops below 90%.
tubelife_zpse7de1419-png.3308.png
 
If we wanted to maximise plant growth per watt of light then we would use high pressure sodium lights at over 150 lumens/watt (or more), even more efficient than most LEDs. Why do you think DIY cannabis growers use these lights ? Plants would adapt to the high pressure sodium spectrum and get monster growth due to massive light output. The main issue is colour temperature, these are only 2000K and plants look cr*p, lacking green, but hey ho they grow well.

So choose your lamp spectrum to make your plants look good and green and standing out to your eyes. Too higher K value (going above 8000K ?) and plants look bleached and washed out, too lower K value (below 4-5000K ?) and plants look dull. Plants don't really care too much, as explained above, they will make use of what ever light you supply.

Bit surprised the Fluval and Giesemann tubes haven't lasted very long. This is completely contrary to my experience with Juwel and Arcadia HO tubes. Maybe its just an issue with the "plant grow" tubes ?

Below is the life expectancy of an industry standard HO T5 tube, over 20,000 hours before lumen output drops below 90%.
View attachment 95079
I love people who start off claiming one thing, then change their position in the very next post. Clearly, by your own words spectrum does matter. A place I worked here in the US had a sign on the door:

In God we Trust: All others bring data...

Oh, but excuse me. I forget. You ARE the expert so we should all just sit quietly and listen.

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Maybe sit quietly and read more is in order if knowledge is the goal.
PAR values are far more important than spectrum from plant's perspective..
Photo in my avatar for example, was operating under combonation of 10,000K/6700K bulbs(Hamilton) from old Reef tank.
 
I love people who start off claiming one thing, then change their position in the very next post. Clearly, by your own words spectrum does matter.
No I am only stating that spectrum matters only to your eyes, the plants don't care, which is why you can grow plants using sodium lights (as massive lumens per £) but they will look cr*p.
 
I've used tubes for years before changing, I typically only change them when they stop working. To me it doesn't really matter if they lose any brightness as long as the plants are growing healthily - I've never ever seen lack of light due to old dim tubes being a problem. Most tanks have problems due to too much light. If your tank has no problems, providing more light will only increase growth speed (and nutrient demand). The difference between an old and new tube should be negligible for our purposes, even if it isn't, lower light will cause no issues.

That said, just like Ian I'm surprised to see the difference in your Fluval bulbs within 11months, this would put me off buying Fluval bulbs if I didn't already avoid them because they are over-priced. Maybe it isn't so surprising as Fluval themselves recommend regular changing so it would be to their advantage to have short bulb life spans. I've never seen such a difference with the Phillips, Arcadia and Sylvania brand bulbs I'm using in electronic ballasts now. I do notice such dimming in my T8 tubes on old magnetic ballasts...but as as mentioned I take no bother because the difference in PAR is negligible from a plant growth point of view.

If you want to frequently spend £££ on a brand name T5 tube for the sake of slightly more brightness then that's cool, but there are far more economical options to get more brightness, like investing in LEDs. Or even just buying normal T5 tubes:

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/cheap-ho-t5-fluorescent-tubes-update-with-photos.555/

Well I guess the botanists are wrong too. You clearly know more than they do...

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If you believe your assertion that spectrum is important with regard to aquarium plant growth - maybe try to back this up with references (or even an just explanation of your own understanding) rather than attacking experienced members with sarcasm? This topic has been covered extensively and repeatedly on these forums though, so I would recommend you do a wee bit more searching and reading first :).

You are not totally incorrect with the statement, "spectrum is also important". I thought this when I saw OP's picture. We are only seeing the result of photons the cameras sensors have picked up, the brighter tube may be emitting more photons that are visible to our eyes or the camera sensor, but perhaps useless or of negligible use to to the plants.

Spectrum can be important when growing a single species of plant too, such as growing tomatoes or cannabis indoors. Tomatoes and cannabis can make use of a wide spectrum too and can adapt, so if your aim is to simply grow a plant, then the exact spectrum is not important at all. If your aim is to grow a certain dry weight of valuable cash crop working under very tight margins (like commercial production of tomatoes in greenhouses with supplemental lighting, or illicit production of cannabis in small indoor tents) then choosing the optimum spectrum of bulb for your particular plant species could mean the difference of thousands of £ profit, even if it is just 5% extra dry weight. Even if it was possible to choose an optimum spectrum for our aquariums, we would only achieve slightly faster plant growth (or more algae), so there is less reason to wish for this.

However Ian is totally right as far as growing aquarium plants is concerned, there is no optimum spectrum for aquariums and how it looks to our eyes is more important. We grow so many different species, each one would have it's optimum spectrum depending on where it evolved and what photosynthetic pigments it can produce, also plants can produce different pigments in response to different lighting conditions (such as plants producing red carotene pigments when exposed to bright light).

Tbh due to so much erroneous and conflicting marketing information it is not an easy subject to understand and nobody should feel bad about being confused!
 
If we wanted to maximise plant growth per watt of light then we would use high pressure sodium lights at over 150 lumens/watt (or more), even more efficient than most LEDs. Why do you think DIY cannabis growers use these lights ?
not here they don't anymore ;)



As mlportersr mentions, there is lots of plant science data discussing effects of spectra & PAR & PUR on plant growth ... those papers are just not convincing to the planted tank community :D
 
Well thanks for all the info on T5's, i was not expecting this much discussion . I guess in reef-keeping the spectrum and intensity of light is more important to Corals than a planted aquarium!

My corals used to suffer under a old Actinic tube but once I replaced it the corals were fine a day or so later. Im new to planted tanks so this is all good new info


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Sorry guys, this is not actually topic related, but is something I really have to vent out...
I love people who start off claiming one thing, then change their position in the very next post. Clearly, by your own words spectrum does matter. A place I worked here in the US had a sign on the door:

In God we Trust: All others bring data...

Oh, but excuse me. I forget. You ARE the expert so we should all just sit quietly and listen.
Mate, we are here trying to help each other... what you did right there is the best way to make someone not want to come here and help anymore... if you have a question about something, ask! Don't go and make wrong assumptions to judge the people that are actually trying to help!

We are here mostly sharing what we think, our experiences... we are not scientists (at least most of us)... we are not dictating laws of nature. We give opinions, and you should be smart enough to question them and apply them if you think they are good enough for you.

I don't completely agree with @ian_m in this matter, but I respect his opinion, since I have absolutely no proof that he his wrong. And even if I did, I would still respectfully try to correct him (and I'm pretty sure he would appreciate the input).

So, you should really follow @three-fingers advice and be a bit more respectful towards others...
If you believe your assertion that spectrum is important with regard to aquarium plant growth - maybe try to back this up with references (or even an just explanation of your own understanding) rather than attacking experienced members with sarcasm?
 
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