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What kind of deficiency or toxicity is this ?

X

xandro007

Member
Joined
5 Feb 2016
Messages
69
Location
Belgium
I always had very good growth on my alternanthera reineckii mini but now the new growth is twisted with very small leaves and different red. The only adjustment I mad was adding Purigen and the growth was good and then I trimmed my repens and now alternanthera reineckii mini shows a deficiency or toxicity

Before trimming
498d96c9c98cdfbb6605002a6a6e5374.jpg


4days after trimming
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1week and 4 days after trimming
9c7239ba0fd5c373fe192a3347dd51ac.jpg
da53c637fdd99c16cd7d24fb8f277e05.jpg
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16f02a320f4716e3309175f67ca8f6a3.jpg


The other plants are healthy
e6a5af2b2a3801966bab462ca09c2cae.jpg
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General information of the tank:
Life time of the tank :14months
Size of aqurium :81 x 36 x 50 cm 100l
Witch ground: first iron rich clay and all the Ada minerals some lava rocks on top some akadama and as last layer 12 liter of Ada Amazonia.
Hardscape: dragon stones

Lightning:
And diy led 6500k dimmed
Lightning time: 8hours

Filter:
Witch filter is in use: sunsun 302 filter external filter
With filter materials: 4 liter lava stones 200ml Purigen
The flow rate of the filter :1000l/h

Co2 system :
Compressed gas co2
Night of : yes
Ph controller : no
Co2 diffuser: inline atomizer
Co2 bubbles per second : 3-4
Running time :9 hours one hours before light one and one houre out before light out

Plants:
micranthemum sp. monte carlo
rotala rotundifolia
rotala bonsai
ludwigia sp. mini super red
micranthemum micranthemoides
alternanthera reineckii mini
Alternanthera reineckii Rosanervig
blyxa japonica
staurogyne repens

Fish and shrimp
2 Siamese algea eaters
3 amano shrimp
15 neon tetra
1 baby bristlenose pleco
2guppy
1zebra danois

fertilizing:
5ml Ada lights daily
5ml bright K daily
Micro mix daily Fe - 0.05 ppm (gluconate , EDTA, DTPA, EDDHMA)
Mn - 0.029 ppm
Zn - 0.00285 ppm
Cu - 0.0017 ppm
B - 0.0014 ppm
Ni - 0.000143 ppm
Co - 0.000143 ppm
Ti - 0.00043 ppm

Water changes:
Every week 20%
RO water reconstruction:
Mg - 10ppm (anhydrous MgSO4)
No Ca because in my tank it is always high

Heater:
No heater

Water in aqurium

Water temperature 18-20°C
Ph: 6-7
No2 <0.01
Ca 40ppm (what i don't understand)
Because is use 100% RO and don't dose
Calsium)
Gh 8
Mg 10ppm
Kh 0-1
Nh4 <0.05
Po4 0.05 ppm


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Hi,
very dificult to say what's right or not...
I'll star by cheking this:

- DIY led, how much power? seems you have very strong light by the color of plants. I presume that is the same light from the start so the failure is not here, right?

- Amazonia is 'over', maybe need to compensate with more macro fert's, PO4 is below the line of growth, IMO.
Amazonia is very powerfull strating a tank, but then loses the energy!

- I would test the Iron level, maybe too much available in the tank! (careful with fish).
If there is too much stop dosing, till you get decent levels.

- Water changes, 50% weekly! At least things get in the balance again.

- I presume Co2 is stable and equal from start, right?

- Yes you dose Calcium! Dragon Stone + Co2

- KH 0 or 1, are you shure that your test is ok? i suspect not...

- I don't blame purigen for the imbalance!

Nice tank! I like the red colors of your plants.
I believe (what is possible with the information) purigen was just coincidence, the real one to blame is Amazonia (is perfectly normal to be exhausted with time).
You can increase fert in water, add some dry food in substrate (or both), but that's me guessing!
Hope it help's,
cheers
 
I think that i found the problem it is nitrate deficiency



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And I also changed my fish food and it contains less nitrate so I think I found the problem added 4 ppm nitrate and I'm already see better new growth


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Joe Turner said:
Which may be due to you adding Purigen recently, reducing nitrate concentrations in the water column?
Click to expand...
???. Purigen only removes organics. Leaves inorganics alone, which is why it is used in planted tanks.
 
But is it's because of the other fish food I used


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Going to be hard to pin this down to one particular deficiency (definitely not iron though :lol:), but since this only started to happen after adding purigen...I do have some thoughts.

Your using RO water and adding no calcium (other than slowly dissolving dragon stone)...what test kit are you using to get the 40ppm result? Tbh I don't know how accurate freshwater calcium test kits are, many types of aquarium kits aren't very accurate though so it's worth considering you may not have 40ppm. More than just CO2 contributes to acidity, and purigen removes things like tannins and organic waste that can reduce pH. With fewer acidic compounds in the water, less calcium will be dissolving, so if you previously only just had enough calcium I guess it's possible purigen could reduce it to a critical level.

Also, as your not dosing EI, we can't be sure you're dosing enough nitrogen and you haven't provided any nitrate test results to help verify this. If a lot of your nitrogen was coming from decomposing organics (like from fish food as you mention), adding purigen could indeed lead to lower nitrogen levels. As mentioned above, ADA aquasoil depletes in nitrogen over time too, so it may be time to reconsider your fertiliser choices.

I don't think purigen is bad at all (although I prefer not to use it), if you like using it for crystal clean water, you don't have to remove it at all, just try adding more nitrogen and maybe calcium to be safe. An easy way to add some calcium would be to cut your RO water with tap water (which I presume is pretty hard hence your using RO?). As tmiravent says, weekly 50% water changes are very useful!

So in conclusion, I recommend dosing more nitrogen and increase frequency of water changes using some tap water mixed with the RO. Instead of just doing more nitrogen, you could switch to EI dosing to save money and eliminate the possibility of future deficiencies at the same time. EI is so easy and instantly eliminates the possibility of deficiencies (other then CO2) as well as the need to spend precious tank-viewing time doing inaccurate and potentially misleading water tests :).
 
Last edited:
Really thanks For your help i personally don't thinks it's calcium because today I tested and it was 45ppm so I think the problem is the nitrogen because al my nitrogen come form my fish and i had less green algae and i have blue algae now so if I look to the rat field ratio than i see that the ratio lower is so more change on blue algae and less change on green algae so I'm really sure it's nitrate


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It is certainly far more likely to be a nitrogen issue than calcium, but adding some (along with other minerals) from tap water can only do good as it's both easy to do and free so I would highly recommend it anyway.

No point in relying on test kits when you can just add more than enough to eliminate the possibility of any deficiencies.

The Redfield ratio isn't applicable to planted aquariums, see link below ;).

https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-problem-with-the-redfield-ratio-theory.4921/
 
Sorry but here in Belgium many people use it and it really works for them


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Sorry but that doesn't counter any of the points made in that thread ;).

In fact if you actually read the discussion in the above thread, it even covers why some people think it works for them:

The problem with the Redfield ratio theory

Many people still think excess nutrients categorically cause algae in planted tanks too, that's simply not true, as all the members tanks in the forum and others are.

Have to keep an open mind, read lots, and think critically to really learn anything in this hobby.
 
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