Came this far

[Archer]

Are you using an inline CO2 reactor? To be honest, I have had leak before BUT the reason is because my tubing i used were old and inflexible. In addition, I was using an inline CO2 reactor which needed about 2 bar to push the co2 gas through. So as a result the leak happened at where I connected the tubing. I changed the tubing to a black high pressure tubing. The leak stopped.

So far I have changed the CO2 cylinder twice. Both times hand tigthened. I have also confirmed this with my LFS.

When you said you felt the leak.. can you try to remember whether the leak stopped because you readjusted the No2 location or because you tightened the solenoid to the cylinder?

I went to check mine. It is still tight and requires some strength from me to loosen it. This confirms that the thread design of the regulator is working as intended.

If yours feel loose after a period of operations... then the thread could be worn. Bring it back to the dealer and have it check.

Sorry but is the below setup categorized as inline co2 reactor? I am not sure which type is mine as I only bought the kit which is mostly sold here in Hong Kong. As for the tubing, I guess it's all good as it's not the same tubing I previously bought which is much softer for my airpump. The tubing included in the co2 kit seems to be harder.

I am totally sure that the leak came from the connection between solenoid and cylinder. I just shut the main valve of the cylinder and leak stopped. Upon doing hand tightening, leak still shows. That is why I tried to check the blue gasket and then re-position it and use a vice grip to tighten it. That's when leak stopped.

By the way, how to determine if the cylinder is all empty? And what is the proper procedure in removing and putting the solenoid back.

I have tried searching the internet but can't find any document nor video about this solenoid. I just want to make sure I am doing the proper thing.

 

[sgdiscus]

Ah I see. You are using a CO2 atomiser.

When the pressure is low (ie the reading is down to 1 or 2 bar in the yellow range), you will notice that the rate of bubbles going into your bubble counter starts to slow down.

It is also possible for you not to get any bubbles even though the reading is still at 1 or 2 bar and not completely zero. A possible explanation for this is due to the fact that the atomiser you are using require a minimum operating pressure for the co2 to be forced out and there is insufficient pressure in the co2 cylinder to do this.

In this case, it is time to change the co2 cylinder. For this solenoid, the procedure is as follows:

1. Closed the valve at the co2 cylinder.
2. Switched off the power to the solenoid.
3. Open the 'fine tuning valve' at the solenoid itself. I know you have already adjusted the position to get the bubble per second count. The reason you want to open the valve bigger is to make sure you release all the co2 still trap in the solenoid. This is a safety feature of this solenoid. By right, if there is still co2 trap, you should not be able to unscrew the solenoid from the cylinder.
4. Next unscrew the solenoid from the cylinder.

Do note that there will be residual pressure (ie remnant co2) inside your cylinder. You can release all the co2 if you want but always close back the valve as you do not want humidity or water to get inside your co2 tank and cause corrosion. Some people like to release all the pressure just to check that their cylinder is completely empty before topping up.

I have been thinking about the leak you are experiencing. This product is quite well built (ps: I am not related in any way to the product). One possibility is that the gasket did not have a good seal when the solenoid was screwed onto the cylinder and overtime it loosened the solenoid resulting in a leak.

Another possibility is that the safety feature that I mentioned was faulty which could result in a leak.

In the long run, I don't think you need to use a tool to tighten the solenoid to the cylinder because that is not how this solenoid work. So if it is possible, I would recommend that you bring it back to the shop and get it check. At least compare your solenoid to a new one. I think the gasket can also be replaced.

 

[Archer]

Ah I see. You are using a CO2 atomiser.

When the pressure is low (ie the reading is down to 1 or 2 bar in the yellow range), you will notice that the rate of bubbles going into your bubble counter starts to slow down.

It is also possible for you not to get any bubbles even though the reading is still at 1 or 2 bar and not completely zero. A possible explanation for this is due to the fact that the atomiser you are using require a minimum operating pressure for the co2 to be forced out and there is insufficient pressure in the co2 cylinder to do this.

In this case, it is time to change the co2 cylinder. For this solenoid, the procedure is as follows:

1. Closed the valve at the co2 cylinder.
2. Switched off the power to the solenoid.
3. Open the 'fine tuning valve' at the solenoid itself. I know you have already adjusted the position to get the bubble per second count. The reason you want to open the valve bigger is to make sure you release all the co2 still trap in the solenoid. This is a safety feature of this solenoid. By right, if there is still co2 trap, you should not be able to unscrew the solenoid from the cylinder.
4. Next unscrew the solenoid from the cylinder.

Do note that there will be residual pressure (ie remnant co2) inside your cylinder. You can release all the co2 if you want but always close back the valve as you do not want humidity or water to get inside your co2 tank and cause corrosion. Some people like to release all the pressure just to check that their cylinder is completely empty before topping up.

I have been thinking about the leak you are experiencing. This product is quite well built (ps: I am not related in any way to the product). One possibility is that the gasket did not have a good seal when the solenoid was screwed onto the cylinder and overtime it loosened the solenoid resulting in a leak.

Another possibility is that the safety feature that I mentioned was faulty which could result in a leak.

In the long run, I don't think you need to use a tool to tighten the solenoid to the cylinder because that is not how this solenoid work. So if it is possible, I would recommend that you bring it back to the shop and get it check. At least compare your solenoid to a new one. I think the gasket can also be replaced.

Thank you for keeping up with my noob questions. I am learning more with this stuff.

1. If pressure is below the atomizer reqt and cyclinder is still not empty will a cheap glass diffuser be okay to temporarily empty the remaining co2? Or it won't make any difference?

2. When the co2 kit is all setup, how much do you move the main valve of the cylinder? Is it okay to fully open it?

3. Thank you for explaining the process of removing. However, if I got the cylinder top up and I am to put it back on, do i need to make the fine tuning valve open? (Main cyclinder valve still close).

I am with you with the gasket. I might buy a new one. For now i don't want to touch it and let it just work its way till it's empty.

I might need to buy a whole new kit (worse case scenario) in a different shop as I felt I got ripoff on the store I bought it with. A little back story, during the time I am still canvassing I specifically mentioned that I want the kit they have on display. But when the time I am to purchase they assembled the kit with a different diffuser and bubble counter. Which I said is not the deal for the price I originally ask. Old business tactics I guess they mark up a different price with the items I want and now I spent more than I thought I can save.


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[sgdiscus]

1. If pressure is below the atomizer reqt and cyclinder is still not empty will a cheap glass diffuser be okay to temporarily empty the remaining co2? Or it won't make any difference?

No. It will make a very small difference to stretch your CO2 a bit more... How much more? Well, that will have to depend on the amount of CO2 you need to reach the required ppm. But don't take my word for it. You can try.

2. When the co2 kit is all setup, how much do you move the main valve of the cylinder? Is it okay to fully open it?

It does not matter whether is it half open or fully open. The solenoid is designed to handle the pressure from the CO2 cylinder. I usually leave mine fully open. I have not noticed that half close or open just enough for the solenoid to work make any difference to the usage of the co2 cylinder. After all the amount of co2 is controlled by the needle valve of the solenoid.

3. Thank you for explaining the process of removing. However, if I got the cylinder top up and I am to put it back on, do i need to make the fine tuning valve open? (Main cyclinder valve still close).

Good question. I forgot to mention that usually I put it to 'CLOSE' position after top up and slowly adjust from there. You can try to save a step by not re-adjusting the needle valve position especially since you would have taken some trouble to adjust the co2 level to one that suits your tank.

What you can is to be abit more patient as your co2 cylinder is running out. For example, as you observe that even as your turn your CO2 cylinder to the full OPEN position, you are not getting sufficient pressure for your CO2 solenoid to work. In this case, you can accept that you will waste abit of CO2. At this stage, you can then CLOSE your CO2 cylinder but continue to let the residual CO2 in your solenoid to run out without touching the needle valve on your solenoid. Once there are no more bubbles entering your bubble counter, you know there is no more co2 in the solenoid and at this stage you can unscrew the solenoid from the CO2 cylinder. The advantage is that you don't fiddle with the needle valve as you already set it to the opening you want. The disadvantage is that you waste some CO2. Personally, I don't find the remaining CO2 sufficient anyway and hence I rather not waste time again adjusting my needle valve.

I hope that helps.

I might need to buy a whole new kit (worse case scenario) in a different shop as I felt I got ripoff on the store I bought it with. A little back story, during the time I am still canvassing I specifically mentioned that I want the kit they have on display. But when the time I am to purchase they assembled the kit with a different diffuser and bubble counter. Which I said is not the deal for the price I originally ask. Old business tactics I guess they mark up a different price with the items I want and now I spent more than I thought I can save.

yikes... sorry to hear that. What I don't understand is why would the shop do that and lose a potential long term customer.

 

[Archer]

No. It will make a very small difference to stretch your CO2 a bit more... How much more? Well, that will have to depend on the amount of CO2 you need to reach the required ppm. But don't take my word for it. You can try.



It does not matter whether is it half open or fully open. The solenoid is designed to handle the pressure from the CO2 cylinder. I usually leave mine fully open. I have not noticed that half close or open just enough for the solenoid to work make any difference to the usage of the co2 cylinder. After all the amount of co2 is controlled by the needle valve of the solenoid.



Good question. I forgot to mention that usually I put it to 'CLOSE' position after top up and slowly adjust from there. You can try to save a step by not re-adjusting the needle valve position especially since you would have taken some trouble to adjust the co2 level to one that suits your tank.

What you can is to be abit more patient as your co2 cylinder is running out. For example, as you observe that even as your turn your CO2 cylinder to the full OPEN position, you are not getting sufficient pressure for your CO2 solenoid to work. In this case, you can accept that you will waste abit of CO2. At this stage, you can then CLOSE your CO2 cylinder but continue to let the residual CO2 in your solenoid to run out without touching the needle valve on your solenoid. Once there are no more bubbles entering your bubble counter, you know there is no more co2 in the solenoid and at this stage you can unscrew the solenoid from the CO2 cylinder. The advantage is that you don't fiddle with the needle valve as you already set it to the opening you want. The disadvantage is that you waste some CO2. Personally, I don't find the remaining CO2 sufficient anyway and hence I rather not waste time again adjusting my needle valve.

I hope that helps.



yikes... sorry to hear that. What I don't understand is why would the shop do that and lose a potential long term customer.

Thank you for all the information. I am getting much more confident now with this co2 stuff.

I need to bring back the solenoid and cylinder tomorrow back and see if I can arrange for a repair or exchange. I am just trying to look my tank and there hear a faint screeching sound coming out of the cylinder and solenoid again!!!

Seems I am out luck with this first kit I bought. I hope the shop can redeem themselves in making me buy another item there.

Worse case scenario I will need to buy a new kit. Given all this mishaps, its not making me get discourage as though quite expensive the learnings I get are all invaluable.


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[sgdiscus]

Thank you for all the information. I am getting much more confident now with this co2 stuff.

I need to bring back the solenoid and cylinder tomorrow back and see if I can arrange for a repair or exchange. I am just trying to look my tank and there hear a faint screeching sound coming out of the cylinder and solenoid again!!!

Seems I am out luck with this first kit I bought. I hope the shop can redeem themselves in making me buy another item there.

Worse case scenario I will need to buy a new kit. Given all this mishaps, its not making me get discourage as though quite expensive the learnings I get are all invaluable.


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Hmmm.. try to apply the soap solution so that you can confirm the location of the leak.

If it is really the connection between the solenoid and the cylinder... then the gasket is the likely culprit.

A good solenoid will last many years. My first solenoid (ANS) lasted more than 5 years. The current Intense solenoid that I am using is my second solenoid ever. So these kits can last a while. Co2 cylinders can last even longer.

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[Archer]

Hmmm.. try to apply the soap solution so that you can confirm the location of the leak.

If it is really the connection between the solenoid and the cylinder... then the gasket is the likely culprit.

A good solenoid will last many years. My first solenoid (ANS) lasted more than 5 years. The current Intense solenoid that I am using is my second solenoid ever. So these kits can last a while. Co2 cylinders can last even longer.

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Fingers crossed that it's really just the blue gasket.

I have set it aside already and close the main valve. When trying to open it, I can hear the release of gas. Putting my finger around the joint of solenoid and cylinder also confirms this.

I don't want to tinker it anymore as it's a confirm leak. I hope the scratch in the solenoid ring will not be an issue if I return it tomorrow. I don't want to keep my hopes high as language barrier will be the my first problem when I explain it.


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[Archer]

Afternoon today when I brought back the solenoid and cylinder to the shop. Good thing the owner still remembers me and I immediately told her that it's leaking.

Without saying much she just disassembled and saw the blue gasket almost torn apart!

She replaced it and seems the leak stopped. Haven't checked it yet with with soap test but I believe the gasket replacement resolves this leak.

I am now thinking, why the gasket already got into this state. Is this something normal? I thought this should be replace during cylinder replinishment.

(Just saw in the label that maintenance is every 12months)


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[imak]

It seems you overtightened it.

 

[sgdiscus]

Afternoon today when I brought back the solenoid and cylinder to the shop. Good thing the owner still remembers me and I immediately told her that it's leaking.

Without saying much she just disassembled and saw the blue gasket almost torn apart!

View attachment 95870

She replaced it and seems the leak stopped. Haven't checked it yet with with soap test but I believe the gasket replacement resolves this leak.

View attachment 95871

I am now thinking, why the gasket already got into this state. Is this something normal? I thought this should be replace during cylinder replinishment.

(Just saw in the label that maintenance is every 12months)


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Wow... so the gasket was the culprit. The picture does indicate that the gasket was damaged due to over tightening or improper fastening.

Did lady go through with you the procedure of removing the solenoid from the cylinder? I hope she did not use tools to tighten it.

 

[limz_777]

many of top aquascaper stay there in hk ,in fact pioneers , have you been to dave chow 's shop ? not sure if Cliff Hui's shop still operating.

 

[Archer]

It seems you overtightened it.

I am not sure. Probably when I tried using a vise grip when it first leak.


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[Archer]

Wow... so the gasket was the culprit. The picture does indicate that the gasket was damaged due to over tightening or improper fastening.

Did lady go through with you the procedure of removing the solenoid from the cylinder? I hope she did not use tools to tighten it.

Yah. I am surprise the same upon seeing it. The seller just hand tighten as per your instructions. I haven't soap test it yet but already hooked it in power as I see my hc are not producing bubles. ( busy me not to test it!) However I see the pressure now in stable 3.


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[Archer]

many of top aquascaper stay there in hk ,in fact pioneers , have you been to dave chow 's shop ? not sure if Cliff Hui's shop still operating.

I am very new to aquascaping and still learning. I am not familiar with them but morelikely they have shop in Mongkok where the "goldfish street" is located. I am located in hk island and going there is almost an hour via train.


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[Manisha]

No experience with co2 to offer but lovely scape & planting so far!

 

[Archer]

No experience with co2 to offer but lovely scape & planting so far!

Thank you! Aside from the co2 setback I think all in all my tank is doing fine.

However, I am noticing now my substrate flatenning out in the back side.

Please help!


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[Archer]

Bought crystal red shrimp yesterday and notice they are quite aggressive.

Love they were able to adopt in the tank immediately but notice the red shrimp (I believe they are singapore flower shirmp correct me if I am wrong) got more passive. They don't usually hide here before

Notice as well that the hc are not producing much bubbles unlike before. Though the bubbles now are are more bigger. Do I need to raise my co2 dosage?

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[sgdiscus]

Thank you! Aside from the co2 setback I think all in all my tank is doing fine.

However, I am noticing now my substrate flatenning out in the back side.

View attachment 95932

Please help!


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I went back to your older posts and compared the scape and the current picture.

Looks like the soil underneath the big rocks was softening due to the water and possibly pocket of gases forming (natural.. happens in all planted tank with more than 1 inch of soil). As a result, as the big rocks sink into the soil... the soil from the back get pushed to the areas where there are lesser pressure and hence you get the flatenning effect.

One of the tricks aquascapers used is to put plastic eggcrates (for example - http://www.totalplastics.com/products/622 Again need to caveat... I am not related to this company and neither am I endorsing.) Underneath the rocks to support their weight and to raise them up.

You can try getting these eggcrates from any gardening or hardware shops. You can also use any substitutes that are inert in nature. Smaller rocks can also be used. The disadvantage of using heavy materials is that it adds additional downward pressure. This will only be a safety concern if your aquarium stand do not have full backing at the bottom.

To prevent the flatening effect, you will need to address the issue of the heavy rocks pushing the soil forward.

One option is to accept the effect and focus next on growing the plants well. Once you gain more experience with growing the plants, you can think about re-scaping the entire tank. Afterall... this is a hobby.

The other option is to do a total rescape now. Since you are still at an early stage it may be an acceptable price to pay for a restart. This is part and parcel of aquascaping.

Third option is a temporary one.. which I used myself. That is to manually scope up the soil from the front and transport them to the back! I do this once awhile... as a minor touchup just before my water change. Not recommended because it will stir up bacteria and gases causing ammonia spike. Hence I always do a water change immediately and your water will be cloudy for a few days. Also the flatening effect will return.

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[Archer]

I went back to your older posts and compared the scape and the current picture.

Looks like the soil underneath the big rocks was softening due to the water and possibly pocket of gases forming (natural.. happens in all planted tank with more than 1 inch of soil). As a result, as the big rocks sink into the soil... the soil from the back get pushed to the areas where there are lesser pressure and hence you get the flatenning effect.

One of the tricks aquascapers used is to put plastic eggcrates (for example - http://www.totalplastics.com/products/622 Again need to caveat... I am not related to this company and neither am I endorsing.) Underneath the rocks to support their weight and to raise them up.

You can try getting these eggcrates from any gardening or hardware shops. You can also use any substitutes that are inert in nature. Smaller rocks can also be used. The disadvantage of using heavy materials is that it adds additional downward pressure. This will only be a safety concern if your aquarium stand do not have full backing at the bottom.

To prevent the flatening effect, you will need to address the issue of the heavy rocks pushing the soil forward.

One option is to accept the effect and focus next on growing the plants well. Once you gain more experience with growing the plants, you can think about re-scaping the entire tank. Afterall... this is a hobby.

The other option is to do a total rescape now. Since you are still at an early stage it may be an acceptable price to pay for a restart. This is part and parcel of aquascaping.

Third option is a temporary one.. which I used myself. That is to manually scope up the soil from the front and transport them to the back! I do this once awhile... as a minor touchup just before my water change. Not recommended because it will stir up bacteria and gases causing ammonia spike. Hence I always do a water change immediately and your water will be cloudy for a few days. Also the flatening effect will return.

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Thanks for the those tips! I did use plastic foundation like the one below. However, as I newbie never thought of the impact of it on the long run. Now I understand the use

I was able to get the flattening resolve a bit by adding the remaining soil left. The main rocks are not much of my concern, the yellow arrows part is the one I am thinking. I hope it will not flatten out in the level of the front in the months to come.

Btw, do you think my Co2 atomizer is positioned optimally? Since the co2 is back in operation after the leak, seems the hc goes back to producing bubbles. Just thinking if I am maximizing it with the outflow pipe position as well.

I would like to ask as well if my airstone is positioned okay.

 

[Archer]

I am thinking of adding plants as well. Can you suggest plants of similar size as I don't want to change the scale I have now. I am thinking if I should be patient for my Littorella uniflora to thrive more.