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What am I doing wrong? At wits end

Joined
10 Jan 2017
Messages
80
Location
United Kingdom
Hi everyone, I'm new here and I decided to create an account to ask for some advice on my plants, which just don't seem to be doing very well at all despite co2 injection and EI dosing.

Tank: Juwel Rio 125

Filter:
Stock Juwel internal filter

Lighting:
Stock 2x Juwel 'Day' t5's with a 6 hour photoperiod (recently increased from 5)

Co2:
JBL m500 co2 canister and JBL Count Safe bubble counter. Diffused via JBL ProFlora Taifun diffuser. Co2 is turned on 2 hours prior to lights on and switched off 1 hour prior to lights off. Drop checker is green at lights on.

Ferts: Co2 Art 'EI Easy Way' high tech Macro and Micro solution. As per instructions I dose 12 pumps of each on alternating days Monday to Friday. On a Saturday I dose Flourish Iron in an attempt to help out the red plants but with no success. Sunday is a 50% water change with no fert dosage.

Here's some pictures:

Full Tank Shot:

IMG_2489.jpg


Monte Carlo Melting?:
IMG_2490.jpg


Red plants - dying/brownish lower leaves covered in BBA:
IMG_2491.jpg


Hair Algae on Jungle Val - No Growth for a While:
IMG_2492.jpg


The other large leafed green plants (sorry I don't know the name) seems to develop holes in their leaves and along with the jungle val don't seem to experience much growth. Could trimming the tops of these plants have damaged them?
 
When was the tank set up. Has it finished cycling? By which I mean do u have zero ammonia and nitrite. Wats ur nitrates and phosphates? U seem to be doing things correctly and so I understand ur frustrations. Don't worry will try and help u as I have also felt helpless at some point. Also r these the 2x28 lights the come with the rio? Do u use all 56 watts for 6 hours photoperiod.?

Sent from my SM-G920I using Tapatalk
 
I would look to move the drop checker nearer to the substrate and see how it reads.

I suspect the issue lies with circulation and the CO2/nutrients not getting to the plants. I would look to adjust the output from the filter to point away from the surface (which is most likely speeding up the CO2 off-gassing) so that it is adjacent with the surface of angled down slightly.

When I had a Rio 125 I used to use an extra circulation pump near the substrate.
 
I would look to move the drop checker nearer to the substrate and see how it reads.

I suspect the issue lies with circulation and the CO2/nutrients not getting to the plants. I would look to adjust the output from the filter to point away from the surface (which is most likely speeding up the CO2 off-gassing) so that it is adjacent with the surface of angled down slightly.

When I had a Rio 125 I used to use an extra circulation pump near the substrate.

I've often considered moving the output of the filter, but then I'm scared of starving the fish of oxygen as there won't be much surface agitation. Did you knwo what type of circulation pump you used/where you positioned it?

I've had some advice from another website and people were telling me that my light was very low. I installed two reflectors which claim to increase light by 100%, so effectively i've now gone from 56 watts to 112 watts. The last time I added those reflectors, I got a terrible algae outbreak - this time I am dosing EI so I hope that makes a difference. I've also replaced one of the t5 bulbs at the back. Now I have a Juwel 'Day' bulb at the front, with a spectrum of:
juwel day.jpg


And now at the back I have a Juwel 'Nature' which claims to aid plant growth. The spectrum of this bulb:
Juwel Nature .jpg

I'm not really sure how the green is supposed to help, but it says it is designed to be used in conjuction with a Juwel 'Day' bulb for optimum plant growth. As soon as I added the reflectors, my anubias and a couple of other plants started streaming tiny bubbles from damaged parts of their leaves - I assume this is a good sign. Not exactly pearling but it means they're making more use of the co2 and ferts, correct?

Sorry for the essay guys, I'm just really trying to figure this out. I seem to have ferts and co2 down. The only thing that could be left is either poor co2 distribution or lighting. On that note, is my lighting (112 watts) too intense? I really don't want the algae back - last time I had to do a four day blackout and overdosing of liquid carbon to help fight it, which I'm pretty sure irritated my bamboo shrimp, and there's still some algae left. I'm hoping if I concentrate on growing healthy plants instead of killing the algae, it will take care of itself
 
Welcome to the forum.

The first thing I can say is that the internal Juwel filter is not sufficient for creating the amount of flow. The way its pointing up is also an issue as its is not churning the water as the plants need. For me, you have two options. Get a canister filter that follows the "10 x rule" where the filter turns over the tank volume 10 times per hour or supplement the internal filter with a suitable powerhead.

Its a little long winded but have a read of this: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/water-flow-in-the-planted-aquarium.1167/

The efficiency of the CO2 diffuser could also come in to question. I started with one of those when I first entered the hobby. It may do a job but to get the level of CO2 you "may" need will result in a lot of wasted CO2 being released into the atmosphere and not the water. If you don't get a canister filter I would recommend a Bazooker diffuser but if you do go down the canister route then an UP Inline atomiser would better suite.

Until you get your flow and CO2 levels right you wont really be able to progress with growing plants.

I can say that your lighting is not too bad at all and is not excessive at all, even with the reflectors. As a side note, reflectors do not double the amount of light. They just direct the upward emitting rays back down into the tank however some light will be lost in that process. If your lamps are 52w then not all of that is going downwards into your tank.
 
Welcome to the forum.

The first thing I can say is that the internal Juwel filter is not sufficient for creating the amount of flow. The way its pointing up is also an issue as its is not churning the water as the plants need. For me, you have two options. Get a canister filter that follows the "10 x rule" where the filter turns over the tank volume 10 times per hour or supplement the internal filter with a suitable powerhead.

Its a little long winded but have a read of this: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/water-flow-in-the-planted-aquarium.1167/

The efficiency of the CO2 diffuser could also come in to question. I started with one of those when I first entered the hobby. It may do a job but to get the level of CO2 you "may" need will result in a lot of wasted CO2 being released into the atmosphere and not the water. If you don't get a canister filter I would recommend a Bazooker diffuser but if you do go down the canister route then an UP Inline atomiser would better suite.

Until you get your flow and CO2 levels right you wont really be able to progress with growing plants.

I can say that your lighting is not too bad at all and is not excessive at all, even with the reflectors. As a side note, reflectors do not double the amount of light. They just direct the upward emitting rays back down into the tank however some light will be lost in that process. If your lamps are 52w then not all of that is going downwards into your tank.

Thanks, good to be here! My lamps are only actually 28 watts each, but hopefully the reflectors will help. I've certanly noticed the leaves on my red plants are more vertical than they used to be since installing them . I definately agree with you on the filter, I've looked at the specs at it only moves 600 litres of water which on a 125 litre tank is nnowhere near 10X the water volume. Trouble is the filter is glued onto the glass, so it's a bit of a pain to remove. I also don't want to go through the trouble of cycling a new filter... what size powerhead would you reccomend for a tank my size? and where would be the optimum place to position it?

I am ocnsidering getting a new diffuser. I'm using a a very high bubble count and still only barely maintaining green in my drop checker.
 
Evening,

As for me:

First issue here. That internal filter.. you have 150 liter tank. With that filter you won´t go any far.
You really need to take it of and buy an external filter.
I recomend you buy a 1050 Litter / H or plus 1250 Litter / H pump by Eheim. Not less than 1050 or higher than 1250 h cause it isn´t needed. Mor than 1250 Liter Hour is too much flow. Of course you can regulate but for what?

If you can put a maximum of 40 cm tube since the filter till the pipes. Not much than that for not loosing efficiency. More tube is equal to much weight of water to the rotor push up. Get the picture?
Inside the filter use only the ceramics and the final basket with the filter pad. Nothing else.

Second issue: I believe that each time you do maintenance in that internal filter you release a lot of detrits to the water..

Third: You talk about Watts.. when you should be concern about LUMENS!
Your tank has 81 cm so you should by T5 bulbs according to this measure (aproximately) for not having shadows on both sides of the tank and a maximum of 6000 Lumens.
The colour must be 6500 K and you can also try using a combination of 4200 K with 6500 K.
6500 Kelvins is an obligation.

CO2: You wont´t believe me but please buy this difuser: NEO L.(see it at my thread "SUSSOA")
It costs about 10 to 15 euros and has a performance compared to an ADA or DoAqua. You will not regret buyng this and you´ll have a very very good CO2 dissolution.

As for ferts i notice that you state this:

" this time I am dosing EI so I hope that makes a difference"

Well... they´re still nutrients aren´t they? being salt or liquid are still nutrients. They are not magic.
If you do not solve the other issues they will do more arm than benefit.

This is what i would do.

Best regards.
 
Evening,

" this time I am dosing EI so I hope that makes a difference"

Well... they´re still nutrients aren´t they? being salt or liquid are still nutrients. They are not magic.
If you do not solve the other issues they will do more arm than benefit.
Best regards.

What I meant by this was that, now I am adding EI levels of ferts, the plants will hopefully be able to photosynthesize much more efficiently thus keeping the algae that arose last time at bay.

My tank is actually 125 litres (less so if you factor in the substrate and hardscape), so is my filter still underpowered? Taking it out would be a nightmare.

"Your tank has 81 cm so you should by T5 bulbs according to this measure (aproximately) for not having shadows on both sides of the tank"

I have the stock t5 lights that fit into the hood that came with the aquarium. If I wanted longer lights I'd probably have to go open top and remove the hood entirely.

"The colour must be 6500 K and you can also try using a combination of 4200 K with 6500 K."

I have two different types of bulbs designed to be used in conjunction for opitmum plant growth, according to Juwel anyway. The front t5 is a Juwel HiLite 'Day' - 8000 Kelvin and 1200 Lumen. The second bulb is a Juwel HiLite 'Nature' - 4100 Kelvin and 1300 Lumen
 
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What I meant by this was that, now I am adding EI levels of ferts, the plants will hopefully be able to photosynthesize much more efficiently thus keeping the algae that arose last time at bay.

Harvo..
"EI" are nutrients.. and nothing else just like any bottle of Tropica Specialised or other brand and they only are usefull or the plants only could assimilate them if photosynthesis is complete. To have photosynthesis to be carried out you´ll need carbon dioxide in the water to obtain glucose through energy.. Light!
All parameters established to a balanced system.
 
Harvo..
"EI" are nutrients.. and nothing else just like any bottle of Tropica Specialised or other brand and they only are usefull or the plants only could assimilate them if photosynthesis is complete. To have photosynthesis to be carried out you´ll need carbon dioxide in the water to obtain glucose through energy.. Light!
All parameters established to a balanced system.

Sorry, I know EI isn't somemagic formula, but now that I'm dosing to the levels of EI, then the plants should be growing better and thus inhibit algae growth that occured last time I added reflectors?
 
I did not comment about that strange effect on reflection cause i truly can´t believe that they duplicate your light reflection. Still you´re talking about watts and not lumens as i said.
You should care about lumens and kelvins.But if you can´t change the light set i can not see for now what to do..

Edit:
Sorry didn´t see your last coment on lights.

AS you can see with those lumens no light will achive the bottom.
 
If I were going to add an Eheim external filter, could I set it up with the stock internal juwel filter still running? Then once the filter is seeded with nitryfying bacteria remove the internal in a couple of months?
 
Once a tank is clicled bacteria grow too fast. It´s all over the tank.. in the water, plants, glass, substrate, tubes, etc. So from this point it will reproduce very very quickly.

An Eheim will have three or four baskets.

In the bottom (one basket) of the new filter you can insert these ceramics you have allready in this internal filter.
Add new ceramics in the other baskets of the new filter.

Let it roll full speed.
In a couple of weeks than you can had more new apropriate ceramics to the bottom basket of the new filter and is fine.

Remember: Only use ceramics and filter pad. Nothing else.
 
I pretty much reccomend "EQuo Stilla" ceramics.
There´s no better in the market. They are truly Porous comparing to others.
 
I'm with Paulo. Don't worry about the bacteria. Many people use an external filter for water movement more than filtration. I'm not sure on the flow rates but check out the Hydor Koralia range for powerheads. They can be used in conjunction with the Juwel filter. If it was me, I would take the directional nozel off the filter and then put the powerhead on the same side as the filter with both blasting across the tank, right to left.

I cannister filter really would be much better though.

FYI, the internal filter is very easy to remove. Get a craft knife and slide it behind the filter and cut through the 4 sticky pads holding it on. I did that on my Rio 180.
 
Okay, thanks for your advice guys. I'm heavily considering getting an external filter to hit that 10x sweet spot. I've done a bit of looking around, and Eheim are just too expensive. Right now it's between the TetraTec EX1200 or the Fluval 406. Does anyone have experience with these, or possibly another suitable filter? I'm leaning slightly towards the Fluval 406 right now as it seems to me that the TetraTec 1200 has quite the leaking problem?
 
Day two of increased lighting with reflectors and already there's a noticable increase in hair/black brush algae... I'm going to go mad, i just don't understand what's causing it... increased lighting? The new Juwel Nature bulb? It's honestly like I have to pick between unhealthy plants with little algae, or healthier plants but a tank covered in algae!
 
High lighting, poor feet and poor flow = ALGAE I feel your pain as I have been there too. remove the reflector turn the lighting period down, increase fertz, remove leafs covered in algae

Paul
 
Ok guys, I've replaced the Juwel Nature bulb back to a Juwel Day. I've also purchased and installed a Fluval 306, which has a flow rate of 1150 litres/hour, just shy of the 10x water volume rule. Should this provide adequate flow? Or will I still need to get a powerhead?
 
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