Beginner planted aquarium queries

[FishLifeLondon]

I have quite a few questions.
Firstly, I would like to replant and rescape my aquarium and maybe add a new substrate. It is an established aquarium with 4 lampeyes, 2 young platies, 4 nerite snails and 4 amano shrimp. I have a canister filter and a superfish retrofit T8 led light for a 35cm depth and a 63l aquarium. I have about an inch of inert sand. I would like to plant rotala rotundifolia, hygrophillia corymbosa compact, s.repens (maybe), hydrocotyle, java moss and a banana lily.
I want to know wether I could be able to support these plants or what I need to provide in order to do so (root ferts, liquid ferts and carbon or a plant substrate). If I were to add a planted substrate or soil, would I need one that would not leach ammonia.
I also would like to know about my water chemistry. My London tap water has 30ppm of nitrate and my aquarium water has a pH of 8.2-4, I will hopefully find out kh and gh tomorrow. I am wondering wether RO water combinations with tap water or remineralised RO water would give better parameters for plant growth and also for Norman's lampeyes and daisy blue ricefish which I would like to stock after the rescape and what ratios to mix.
Another thing I would like to understand is about cycling (yes this is an established aquarium) and what adding more fish does to the bacteria population and how it would deal with more ammonia production and how I should do it and what sort of stocking levels would be appropriate.
I also have an algae problem and would like to know what the algae is and how to deal with it

And is this pearling

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I also have an algae problem and would like to know what the algae is and how to deal with it

And is this pearling

The "algae" is a cyanobacteria ("Blue Green Algae"), and it is has been pearling, you can see the oxygen bulbs caught in the "algal" mat.

The stream of bubbles coming from beneath the Amazon Sword (Echinodorus sp.), are also oxygen, but it isn't exactly pearling.

When plants are photosynthesizing the internal spaces (lacunae and aerechyma etc) become saturated with oxygen, in this case there is a small breach in the epidermis of the plant, and the oxygen is bubbling out of the oxygen rich tissue from a small hole.

cheers Darrel

 

[Nick Norman]

You can find out your water hardness here if you are with thames water.https://www.thameswater.co.uk/Help-and-Advice/Water-Quality

I don't think Water hardness is something to worry about, other factors are more important like the right level of light for the amount of co2 and ferts. For plants anyway, fish are more fussy.
.

 

[FishLifeLondon]

Thanks Nick for trying to help, but the Thames Water website was total bull. I've kinda estimated/guessed that my water will be between 275-310mg/l of calcium carbonate.

Cool stuff Darell on the plants and Cyanobacteria, is the oxygen released through the stoma on the underside of the plant. I think I remember it from last year in biology.

What do you think I can do to limit the Cyanobacteria? The lights are on for 8.5 hours and there's a 2.5 hour siesta and a fair amount of sunlight. Will tearing the tank down for a rescape and adding lots of plants help?

Will my lights allow me to grow the plants listed above and what will I need to do ferts wise and photoperiod wise to support this? I don't feel comfortable doing a high maintenance/tech set up, but root ferts, liquid ferts and carbon are possibilities.

Would it be advisable to change my substrate and what would be some good choices that don't leach too much ammonia and don't hurt my allowance?

Can someone explain everything about nitrifying bacteria please, about the relationship between amount of bioload and changes of bioload and nitrifying bacteria population and its nitrifying ability, because it's interesting and what a significant amount of modern waterkeeping is based on?

Also lovely take 2 thread the tank looks great! What was your experience ripping the tank down and what went well and what would you do differently, it would be really helpful as I plan on doing the same. PS that tank needs Cories!

Cheers everyone

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

but the Thames Water website was total bull

It should give you some values when you enter your post-code in the box.

I've kinda estimated/guessed that my water will be between 275-310mg/l of calcium carbonate.

Your water will be hard, it is <"everywhere in the SE UK">.

is the oxygen released through the stoma on the underside of the plant

Yes, in higher plants oxygen escapes from the stomata, and the individual stoma are more frequent on the underside of the leaf.

The <"Cyanobacteria"> are prokaryotes, so the oxygen just diffuses through the cell wall.

What do you think I can do to limit the Cyanobacteria? The lights are on for 8.5 hours and there's a 2.5 hour siesta and a fair amount of sunlight. Will tearing the tank down for a rescape and adding lots of plants help?

Can you limit the sun-light? More plants definitely helps with most algae. Cyanobacteria (BGA) can fix their own nitrogen, so they maybe associated with low levels of nitrate (NO3), but I don't think this is your problem. Have a look at <"Dusko's guide to algae"> (last section).

I've never really suffered from Cyanobacteria, possibly because I like high oxygen levels and have lots of plants. Ceratophyllum demersum is meant to be allelopathic to Cyanobacteria, and I have that in most tanks. If you have floss or any other mechanical filtration in your filter I would take it out, it is likely to be reducing flow and oxygen levels.

Will my lights allow me to grow the plants listed above and what will I need to do ferts wise and photoperiod wise to support this? I don't feel comfortable doing a high maintenance/tech set up, but root ferts, liquid ferts and carbon are possibilities.

I'm not familiar with the light, but I'll assume it is OK. Personally I don't add CO2 and I use sand as a substrate. You can use <"fertiliser tabs"> or just feed the water column. I use <"the health of a floating plant"> as an indicator of when fertilizer is needed, but you can use <"a regular addition of low levels of nutrients"> if you prefer.

Can someone explain everything about nitrifying bacteria please, about the relationship between amount of bioload and changes of bioload and nitrifying bacteria population and its nitrifying ability, because it's interesting and what a significant amount of modern waterkeeping is based on?

You have come to the right place, have a look at <"Oxygen levels required"> and linked threads.

cheers Darrel

 

[Nick Norman]

Also lovely take 2 thread the tank looks great! What was your experience ripping the tank down and what went well and what would you do differently, it would be really helpful as I plan on doing the same.

Ripping down the tank went well but if I was to do it again i would do it over two days as i could have done with more time. I had the filter running on a Ikea box with the fish in so i think the bacteria in the filter would have been fine for longer and dealt with the ammonia.

I was worried that i would get a mini cycle when I set it back up as I added a few handfuls of more Amazonia aqua soil but all was fine. You can pre soak aqua soil for a few weeks to leach out some of the ammonia, Was thinking of doing this but decided to add less.

Cant advise on light as I am still trying to work out what is the right amount of light. What I thought was low light I now think was too high, now i have turned my lights down to 50% my plants are a lot healthier as i don't use pressurised co2. Growth is slow though. didn't have much luck with s. repens or hydrocotyle though. not sure why, I dose Macros and Micros.

 

[FishLifeLondon]

Thanks for your time and replies

The light replaced a single T8 15W and claims to have a light output of 3 times the old T8. I have no idea the accuracy of the statement but it is certainly brighter visibly. I don't think there are any ways of reducing light intensity or any suitable ways of limiting sunlight sadly, but I don't think it's too bad.

As far as ferts go my sword plant appears to be healthy but my salvinia has been pale and yellowish. My lights were out for two weeks maybe three but before this they were pale. What does this indicate adding liquid ferts in general or a specific deficiency. Do you have any suggestions on what I should dose for the plants I plan on adding if I stick with inert sand and add root tabs, although I might add a base substrate like tropica's.

Sorry, but the threads on nitrifying bacteria were a bit complicated and the main principles of bacteria I want to understand didn't seem to be there (they probably were there, but my school holidays brain can't compute). I basically want to know by cycling a tank with ammonia, are you aiming at starting a bacteria population that would grow larger as bioload was gradually increased or at creating a population that can convert all the ammonia the future bioload could create and then fully stocking emmediately. By creating a starting bacteria population how do you prevent any ammonia spikes when adding more bioload. Also, by using this how do you think I should stock the aquarium with more fish and how many. Sorry these questions to me seem stupid, but I've never really learnt.

Cheers everyone

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

I basically want to know by cycling a tank with ammonia, are you aiming at starting a bacteria population that would grow larger as bioload was gradually increased or at creating a population that can convert all the ammonia the future bioload could create and then fully stocking emmediately. By creating a starting bacteria population how do you prevent any ammonia spikes when adding more bioload.

It doesn't really work like that in planted tanks .

"Cycled" or "not cycled" isn't a very useful concept. There isn't a binary switch from unsafe to safe, it is a continuum dependent upon the capacity of the system (filter, plants and substrate) to convert ammonia into nitrate. Biological filtration is much more to do with oxygen, than it is to do with ammonia. You don't need to add ammonia if you have a planted tank, and particularly if you have a tank with floating or emergent plants.

Recent research has shown that another kingdom of micro-organisms (the Archaea) are the major organisms involved in oxidising ammonia, and that the nitrite using Nitrospira bacteria can also directly convert ammonia to nitrate.

Traditional Cycling
If you only have a filter, then you are reliant the microbe organisms within the filter media to convert the toxic ammonia, and slightly less toxic nitrite, that diffuses from the bioload, (the fish, shrimps and snails) into non-toxic nitrate.

The traditional "fishless cycling" view is that the ability to to process ammonia is dependent upon the amount of ammonia supplied, and that the composition of the population of nitrifying bacteria can be tracked by measuring the rate that ammonia is converted to nitrite (NO2) and subsequently nitrate (NO3). It takes time for the population of specific ammonia (NH3) oxidizing bacteria to build up, and then after that further time for the bacteria that convert nitrite (NO2) to nitrate (NO3) to multiply.

When you add ammonia to your tank, and shortly after that your test kits shows you have no ammonia or nitrite but a rising amount of nitrate, then your tank is "cycled". The nitrate can then only be removed by water changes or anaerobic denitrification.

The additional innoculum of nitrifying bacteria can be added from a filter sponge, or it can be added <"via a bacterial supplement">, or you can wait a little longer and they will arrive of their own accord.

Because you have gone from NH3 to NO2 and then NO3, you have added acids (H+ ions) to the aquarium and you've depleted dissolved oxygen (O2), additionally the bacteria involved in nitrification need a carbonate hardness source and are only operative at pH7 or above.

Plant/microbe bio-filtration
Traditional cycling applies if you keep a heavily planted tank with no plants or substrate, but as soon as you add plants the situation is changed, this is mainly because plants directly take up NH3, NO2 and NO3 and they are net producers of oxygen. You can plant a tank and then let it to grow in for 4 - 6 weeks, once you have a reasonable plant mass then it will show a rapid and flexible approach to changes in the ammonia load.

cheers Darrel

 

[FishLifeLondon]

Thanks a lot Darrel that looked like a lot of effort.

My understanding of it is that in a planted aquarium adding more bioload is not a problem as the plants will absorb the waste of the additional bioload. What sort of increase in the bio load is safe, say doubling the bio load on a tank? In non planted aquariums adding additional bioload needs to be much more carefully monitored and the additional bio load that can be safely added, is smaller than in a planted tank? This means that the bio load has to gradually increase? So does the population before additional bioload have the capability to convert the waste of the additional bioload as well, or will there be a little ammonia spike (mini cycle) as we wait for the bacteria to multiply. Also, you say that the bacteria can't operate under pH7 so do acidic living creatures rely on dilution and plants? What does this mean for acid loving aquarium fish and biotope aquariums (made to accurately depict a a specific aquatic area) of acidic areas?

Once again I'm full of questions!

Cheers everyone

 

[roadmaster]

Is not just bioload from fishes waste in a closed system but tendencies to over feed when more fishes are added = increased waste which can cause trouble.(ammonia spike)
At pH < 7 ammonia is less harmful ammonium which plant's and biofilter can still assimilate .
As Darrel says, Oxygen or lack thereof will determine health of biofilter and it's capacity to deal with organic input.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

My understanding of it is that in a planted aquarium adding more bioload is not a problem as the plants will absorb the waste of the additional bioload.

It will, but it is difficult to put a figure on it, because there are lots of variables. Oxygen availability will dependent upon the surface area to volume ratio of the tank, the type of filter, the filter media, the laminar flow, the volume (and type) of plants etc.

Type of plants is primarily important because the growth of submerged plants is limited by CO2 availability, (which is why hi-tech. aquarists add ~30ppm CO2 to their tanks), the growth of a floating (or emergent) plant isn't CO2 limited, because they have access to 400ppm of atmospheric CO2.

Once rooted plants are in active growth, roots are leaky structures and they will create conditions in the substrate that allow a much larger volume of substrate to be oxygenated, and this also contributes to nitrification.

In non planted aquariums adding additional bioload needs to be much more carefully monitored and the additional bio load that can be safely added, is smaller than in a planted tank? This means that the bio load has to gradually increase?

Yes, it is the safest way.

The exception is where the aquarist needs to add all their fish in one hit due to dominance and aggression issues (usually mbuna keepers). They are reliant on adding enough ammonia to their tank, during the fishless cycle, so that they can add all the fish together.

It is possible, but a lot can go wrong.

So does the population before additional bioload have the capability to convert the waste of the additional bioload as well, or will there be a little ammonia spike (mini cycle) as we wait for the bacteria to multiply.

It is back to the bacteria issue, if you are reliant on microbial filtration you may get a mini-cycle. If you have enough plants and oxygen you won't. Plant microbe filtration is a synergistic, which is one reason that it is potentially about an order of magnitude more efficient than "microbe only" filtration.

There is a lot of scientific evidence for the efficiency of planted systems in aquaculture and waste remediation, but that hasn't necessarily filtered down to a lot of aquarists.

Also, you say that the bacteria can't operate under pH7 so do acidic living creatures rely on dilution and plants? What does this mean for acid loving aquarium fish and biotope aquariums (made to accurately depict a a specific aquatic area) of acidic areas?

Microbial activity is reduced in nutrient poor acidic conditions, but the premise that nitrification will stop is based upon the idea that a very limited range of organisms are able to oxidise ammonia.

Since techniques have become available that can more accurately quantify the micro-organisms that actually occur in aquarium filters we know that there are a much larger range than was initially thought, and that they are largely from the Archaea.

We also know that they are much more flexible in terms of their tolerance to low pH and oxygen levels.

cheers Darrel

 

[FishLifeLondon]

Thank you for all the replies. Darrell you seem to have a lot of information bottled up and so thanks for sharing.

I don't think I'll have any more questions until I bite the bullet and tear down and set back up my tank (which will have to wait for I'm away for a bit and will have to order plants and stones). By then I'll have loads of questions inevitably, but I don't doubt that some of you will have plenty of helpful answers.

Thank you all!

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Darrell you seem to have a lot of information bottled up and so thanks for sharing

It is my day job as well as my hobby.

cheers Darrel