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Starting up a 34L nano tank

Ken Loach

Member
Joined
9 Mar 2017
Messages
82
Location
Merseyside
I am shortly going to be scaping and planting my Fluval Flex 34L nano using TMC NutraSoil Brown. I want to cycle it fishless and would like to know what's the best proprietary bio medium to kick start it. A local aquarium shop advises cycling with a couple of fish in but, as the TMC NutraSoil is said to give an initial ammonia spike, I think I'd prefer to cycle without fish. Advice please.
 
Hi Ken,

First of all, try to ignore what people from shops says, in most of the situation they are wrong or simply don't have the proper knowledges. They are simple sellers.
Use of fish during cycling is like a deat sentence for the fish!

The best solution is to put some plants inside, preferable floating plants that are fast growing and can be removed/replaced after. Then, is good to start with a filter filled with biological filtration medium (there are many solutions from Dennerle, Seachem, Sera, ...). In my 20 litters nano I am using a combination of Dennerle and Micro-Siporax and is working very well. You can add bacterial mixture (I use Prodibio BioDigest with good results) and a very small amount of fish feed (that will generate ammonia for stimulationg the develop of cleansing bacteria).

Then ... wait for two-three weeks. Periodical check of the ammonia and nitrites will give you info about how the process evolves.

Good luck!
 
That's very interesting but as TMC NutraSoil gives an ammonia spike (so I am led to believe) then hopefully just the addition of a proprietary bio starter, like Fluval Cycle, will have the desired effect or am I being too simplistic? There will obviously be plants (Anubias, Java Fern, Pogostemon) rocks (Dragon Stone) and driftwood (Red Moor) introduced at setup and the filter comprising the usual Fluval sponge, charcoal and ceramic media.
 
I was speaking, in first place, about the story with two fish in a cycling tank!

I read about TMC but I cannot find the remark regarding ammonia. It is a complete soil, with a slow-release of the nutrients, very close to Tropica Aqvarium Soil and the only things I've notice are that it lower the pH and have a certain porosity that help to fix in the substrate the cleansing bacteria. If you want to stimulate bacteria population, using bacteria mixture and a few organic matter, this could help. This was the ideea.
 
My piece of Red Moor wood has been soaking outside for around 3 months in a plastic tub full of tap and rain water so hopefully there will be some bacteria on that to help kick-start the process.
 
I'm sorry to say this but no, this will not help you. The cycling process involve a substrate where bacteria can fix themselves. This because why there are special biological filter medium like Matrix, Dennerle, Siporax, sintetic glass, etc. These have a special structure, with a lot of microscopic caves and ducts in which bacteria are fixed but through which water flow! The most important is the flow of the water, not simple presence of the water, because those bacteria need much oxygen for being able to multiply and work like cleasing population, transforming ammonia in nitrites and, in the end, using oxygen for transformig nitrites in nitrates. Wood have not these characteristics; is a compact matter, with a structure of ducts that work only when the wood is fresh and alive. Even then, the flow of the water from the roots to the leaves is very slow. When you will put the wood in the water, after around 6-7 days or maybe a few more, you will see on the wood some white-gray fluffy formations. Those are bacteria, in an agglutinated form, that are on the way to find their way "home". And home for bacteria mean filter medium and substrate, and in substrate, especialy around the roots of the plant.
 
My piece of Red Moor wood has been soaking outside for around 3 months in a plastic tub full of tap and rain water so hopefully there will be some bacteria on that to help kick-start the process.
Depending on temperature (& pH & oxygen levels) there likely are some "bacteria of interest" on this wood - add water to any container & various bacterial populations will establish over ensuring weeks, they won't be at the same sort of population densities or rapid growth phases associated with specialized filter media, but any adherent surface in a "cycled" tank will sport some "bacteria of interest"

Using commercial "cycle bacteria" products can be an effective way to jump start a tank - pay attention to brand instructions as proprietary bacteria preparation vary considerably (I'd not depend on them for shrimp success)

Anubias, Java Fern, Pogostemon
Even though the Flex is a fairly low light system, I suggest including some "auxiliary" plants at the start
 
Hi Ken

As long as you have a filter with some kind of ceramic rings or lava rocks (even sponge works, even if it's less effective) and you have a source of ammonia, your tank should cycle.

Best way to know if you have ammonia in the water it to test it! Your substrate should leak some ammonia, I know those similar to ADA aqua soil do. I would not add fish at the start and keep testing. Best of luck!
 
Hi all,
My piece of Red Moor wood has been soaking outside for around 3 months in a plastic tub full of tap and rain water so hopefully there will be some bacteria on that to help kick-start the process.
I'm sorry to say this but no, this will not help you. The cycling process involve a substrate where bacteria can fix themselves.
Depending on temperature (& pH & oxygen levels) there likely are some "bacteria of interest" on this wood - add water to any container & various bacterial populations will establish over ensuring weeks, they won't be at the same sort of population densities or rapid growth phases associated with specialized filter media, but any adherent surface in a "cycled" tank will sport some "bacteria of interest"
I think that "@alto" is correct.
The best solution is to put some plants inside, preferable floating plants that are fast growing and can be removed/replaced after.
That is the one, floating, and/or emergent, plants are really important in the set-up stage, because they have access to aerial CO2.

If you let the plants grow in for ~ 6 weeks then your tank will have a robust and flexible micro-organism assemblage, that can respond to changes in the ammonia supply. You don't need to do anything else, the secret ingredient is just time.
Using commercial "cycle bacteria" products can be an effective way to jump start a tank - pay attention to brand instructions as proprietary bacteria preparation vary considerably (I'd not depend on them for shrimp success)
They aren't going to do any harm, but they may contain an assemblage of micro-organisms that are adapted to a much higher levels of ammonia than your tank contains.

All the recent research suggests that "Ammonia Oxidising Archaea" (AOA) are the principal organisms at low ammonia loadings, and that the subsequent conversion of nitrite (NO2) to nitrate (NO3) is carried out by Nitrospira spp. bacteria. It is also know known that Nitrospira spp. can directly oxidise ammonia to nitrate (complete ammonia oxidisers "comammox").I think people should have access to <"Freshwater Recirculating Aquaculture System Operations Drive Biofilter Bacterial Community Shifts around a Stable Nitrifying Consortium of Ammonia-Oxidizing Archaea and Comammox Nitrospira">?

How the companies produce their "cycle bacteria" products is a commercial secret, but I would suspect that it is under high ammonia loadings.
As long as you have a filter with some kind of ceramic rings or lava rocks (even sponge works, even if it's less effective) and you have a source of ammonia, your tank should cycle.
Yes, I'm a fan of sintered glass and alfagrog, I also think that sponge is a lot more effective as a biological medium, than it is usually given credit for, <"but oxygen is really important">.

Because we keep planted tanks we don't have problems with rising NO3 levels, so we can ensure that all the filter media is aerobic to give us the maximum biological filtration capacity.
Best way to know if you have ammonia in the water it to test it
If you have an <"ammonia ion selective electrode"> testing is a good way, if you have to rely on <"colormetric methods">, it isn't as good.

<"Because of the problems with testing for a lot of parameters"> we might be interested in I use a different approach, where the health and colour of a floating plant is used as a proxy for nutrient status. I called it the <"Duckweed Index">, because I originally used <"Lemna minor">, and it was an alternative approach to <"Estimative Index"> "EI" for adding nutrients.

The duckweed index is a simple method for ensuring some plant growth, and it works in hard water, soft water etc..

cheers Darrel
 
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They aren't going to do any harm, but they may contain an assemblage of micro-organisms that are adapted to a much higher levels of ammonia than your tank contains.
I had opportunity to use Seachem's "Seed" recently & was pleasantly surprised at how well it coped.

While floating plants might be fine to use in the Flex as startup plants, the LED stocked on this tank is of such low intensity that I'd severely limit floaters if I wanted plant growth at the substrate level - while 7watt LED sounds OK for this tank size, individual LED are <0.2w & the housing does not provide the best transmission (though waterproof) .... but the rainbow color show is fantastic - it's really a fun tank :)


I called it the <"Duckweed Index">, because I originally used <"Lemna minor">
I was wondering why people were calling Limnobium laevigatum "duckweed" :lol:

I need to get my camera out & manage decent photos of the flourishing bright green L laevigatum in my "no tech" tanks - Tropica Aquarium soil & extremely soft tap water, no measureable nitrogens, I rarely fertilize, change water erraticallly
(fauna may be a few snails or shrimp), lighting is sun powered so perhaps that is a relevant factor :confused:
 
So how many hours a day can I leave the lights on in my 34litre Flex? If the general opinion is that they aren't that effective can I leave them on (with Anubias, Java Fern, maybe Pogostemon) for 10-12 hours? The tank will be in a corner, away from the window (NW facing) but with an up-lighter standard lamp above. Obviously from a lounge-cosmetic point of view, the longer the lights are on, the better.

As far as cycling goes, I am happy to start the tank with the ammonia spike from the NutraSoil and, when my mate returns from holiday in a couple of weeks, I will have a bag of Bio Max ceramic that has been "brewing" in his well-established tank for a month.
 
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So how many hours a day can I leave the lights on in my 34litre Flex? If the general opinion is that they aren't that effective can I leave them on (with Anubias, Java Fern, maybe Pogostemon) for 10-12 hours? The tank will be in a corner, away from the window (NW facing) but with an up-lighter standard lamp above. Obviously from a lounge-cosmetic point of view, the longer the lights are on, the better.

As far as cycling goes, I am happy to start the tank with the ammonia spike from the NutraSoil and, when my mate returns from holiday in a couple of weeks, I will have a bag of Bio Max ceramic that has been "brewing" in his well-established tank for a month.

I start with 6 hours photoperiod and increase by 15 mins every week until max. 8 hours and watch closely if there is any extra algae.

Good way to seed your filter with some estabilished media. ;)
 
IMG_19.jpg


Initial setup, plants tomorrow. Anubias Nana & Java Fern.
 
Do you have plant names?

Right back pot looks to be a Hygrophila species that grows quite large :)

Don't forget with the Flex you can turn on some of the color LEDs for evening viewing, or drastically reduce the intensity of the white LEDs for "moonlight" viewing - I wouldn't run the full on lights for 10-12 hours, especially while the tank is getting established .... unless you're adding CO2 it's likely that will become a limiting factor rather than light
 
Do you have plant names?

Right back pot looks to be a Hygrophila species that grows quite large :)

Don't forget with the Flex you can turn on some of the color LEDs for evening viewing, or drastically reduce the intensity of the white LEDs for "moonlight" viewing - I wouldn't run the full on lights for 10-12 hours, especially while the tank is getting established .... unless you're adding CO2 it's likely that will become a limiting factor rather than light

Hygrophila Salicifolia Narrow Leaf
Anubias Nana
Lobelia Cardinalis
Microsorum Pteropus - Java Fern Narrow Leaf

The rear right is Lobelia Cardinalis. I'm giving them 8hrs a day at the moment with red LEDs on with the White. I've been told blue light encourages algae so I'll skip the moonlight modes for now.
 
I'm not convinced the color LEDs on the Flex are sufficient intensity to offer much PAR, but it's fine to run with it

Interesting cardinalis, looks very different in this emerse form than what my lfs stocks
You might consider some small crypts at the front, eg C beckettii 'Petchii',there are a few plants in Tropica 1-2-Grow that work well (I think you're not plannng CO2, though I'd consider a liquid carbon) or moss covered stones etc
 
Finished the aquascaping and planting, and happy with the result. Thinking of a couple of Crypt Wendtii in the front corners then look forward to a few small inhabitants, when the readings are right.

IMG_2817.JPG
 
Looks nice!
Maybe if you put the big rocks from the front of Anubias close to the root and make a "free" space instead, will look better (just my opinion).
The bigger one, in center, under the root and the smallest, in the right side, in a small group ?!
 
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