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CO2 and Lights When To Start?

REDSTEVEO

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31 Mar 2008
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So after a mega strip down and clean, everything is now back up and running. This time around I've gone with JBL Volcanic as the base substrate and topped it with JBL Plant Soil.

Filters starting from scratch with new filter media. Finished planting yesterday. To minimise the effects of the ammonia spike I'm doing 50% water changes every three days for the next two to three weeks, as per the instructions on the JBL bags.

My question is when to switch on the lights and start pumping the CO2 in? I thought if I am changing so much water over the next few weeks is it pointless to waste the CO2.

Lights maybe for 2 to 3 hours, low level LED setting?

Dreading the expected 'New Tank Syndrome' and associated algae issues but been there before.

Any suggestions appreciated. Photos to follow.
 
You could start the tank off with liquid CO2 which will also help combat potential algae issues then move to CO2. I've started both my nano tanks this way and haven't had any real issues with algae. As for lights I usually start with 6 hours and gradually increase and have my LED light at 80%.
 
Planting heavily from the get go helps.
Do your water changes before the gas comes on.
You've planted so you'll need lights from the start, I always go for 6hrs to start with.
The light intensity will need to be higher than the plants light compensation point, so don't go too low otherwise your plants will suffer and release organics which will make the NTS worse.
Like foxfish says pump in the CO2 from the start but once the tank has cycled dial the CO2 in for critters and introduce a clean up crew ASAP - Amanos and otos.
I tend to do dial the CO2 in for critters from the start anyway, that way you can stabilise the CO2 quickly which also gives your plants the best opportunity adjust as well.
And like David mentions a daily dose of LC will also help.
Either way the diatomaceous algae common in new tanks is transitionary and usually disappears after several weeks.
 
If you have planted the tank then you need as much C02 as possible, if you don't have fish or shrimp then give it max C02!

God foxfish, please change that orrible avatar it's freakin me out

My drop checker is showing lime green and I haven't added any CO2 yet, but it's only the second day.
 
Just start as you mean to go on...6hr photoperiod, lime green drop checker at lights on and all the way till lights off.
And as always try to maximise your CO2 flow and distribution.
 
I find the c02 helps keep the already under control so always seems to me best to keep it full on for what the price of a refill is anyway.
 
Doing a ater change today after taking the ammonia readings.

Readings on day 1 after planting were:-

1. PH = 6.80
2. KH = 0
3. GH = 4
4. NO2 = 4
5. NO3 = 0
5. Ammonia = 0.25
6. TDS = 148
7. Microsiemens = 340

I will set the CO2 on a timer to come on at 11 am and off at 5 pm.
Lights on at 12 pm and off at 6 pm.
So 6 hour lighting period and 5 hour CO2 period
 
Well it's still only early days, only six days in fact since I planted up this project. Not a lot of movement or growth with the plants at the moment, which is to be expected I suppose. I've had the usual melting of some of the leaves on the Crypts which was expected as they were bought immersed.

Still no sign of the ammonia spike either which is strange. In fact no sign of anything, Nitrite, Ammonia, or Nitrate! Which I don't think is a good sign. This was going to be a 'fish less' cycle, but I'm thinking of dropping in a couple of Ottocinclus and maybe some Amano Shrimps to move things along, but if the ammonia does spike worried it will be too much for them. What do you think?

I have just added 100 Mis of Easy Life Filter Aid to see if that gets things moving.

PH 6.8
Temp 25 degrees
All other readings the same.

Thanks,
Steve
 
I've had the usual melting of some of the leaves on the Crypts which was expected as they were bought immersed.
Steve,
I never expect this. Crypt melting leaves is an early indication of poor CO2. So you might want to start evaluating injection rate and/or flow distribution, or the possibility of excessive lighting.
Still no sign of the ammonia spike either which is strange. In fact no sign of anything, Nitrite, Ammonia, or Nitrate! Which I don't think is a good sign.
You really need to stop this testing. I don't know why folks continue to waste money and energy on test kits.

Do you really think that fish have chemistry degrees? Fish do not know how to solve your problems.

I have just added 100 Mis of Easy Life Filter Aid to see if that gets things moving.
Steve, good Lord man are you actually paying money for bacteria? You can get bacteria for free at any pet shop or even in your garden or house plants.

My advice is to spend your resources and energy on fixing CO2/flow/distribution.


Cheers,
 
If you have planted the tank then you need as much C02 as possible, if you don't have fish or shrimp then give it max C02!
Now is the time to experiment with the C02 levels, as soon as you add fish or shrimp you will have to be very carful not to overdose them!
I am a fan of testing and monitoring the PH levels. I normally aim for a one point PH drop as that seems to put my tanks on the money for good strong plant growth without unduly effecting my fish.
When I set up a new tank, I spend a few days adjusting the C02 levels so I have a one point drop berofe the lights come on and try to get it to stay that way for the whole 7 hour lighting period.
After around one week I will know if things are looking ok, if I spot algae, I might increase the Co2, double the water changing and spend time cleaning the pants.
I am a huge fan of T5 lighting, I have found 2 x T5s the length of the tank works every time for me, so I don't really worry about the lighting I just concentrate on flow, C02 & daily maintenance.
Now a one point PH drop may not be ideal for your tanks but my point is to experiment and keep records of the PH until you have found what works for your own tank. When you are happy with the plants, then consider adding fish :)
 
Steve,
I never expect this. Crypt melting leaves is an early indication of poor CO2. So you might want to start evaluating injection rate and/or flow distribution, or the possibility of excessive lighting.

You really need to stop this testing. I don't know why folks continue to waste money and energy on test kits.

Do you really think that fish have chemistry degrees? Fish do not know how to solve your problems.


Steve, good Lord man are you actually paying money for bacteria? You can get bacteria for free at any pet shop or even in your garden or house plants.

My advice is to spend your resources and energy on fixing CO2/flow/distribution.


Cheers,


Hi Clive, thanks for taking the time to give me you input, as ever it is very much appreciated I always seem to remember Crypts melting in the first few days but only if they were bought immersed, I never had them melt if they were bought already submersed. But I agree about the CO2, the Dupla Drop Checker has been lime green since I put it in a week ago. Yesterday evening I decided to leave the CO2 on overnight, the bubble counter is at 120 BPM, last night the reading on the Dupla digital display was 6.8 PH, this morning after CO2 being on all night the PH is at 6.23.

So still no 1 degree drop before lights on as Foxfish mentions below. The flow at the moment is outstanding, both filters giving maximum output, I can see the leaves of the plants swaying in every position in the tank, so I am confident flow is not an issue.

So that leaves us with the lighting. When you say 'possibility of excessive lighting' did you mean I have got too much light, or I need to increase the lighting?

KH still zero, and GH still 4. NO2 and Ammonia zero.

I am like you Clive, I don't like testing, if the plants are doing really well there is not much wrong with the water, so the fish should be fine.

Will keep you posted, and thanks again for your expert advice

Cheers,

Steve
 
Now is the time to experiment with the C02 levels, as soon as you add fish or shrimp you will have to be very carful not to overdose them!
I am a fan of testing and monitoring the PH levels. I normally aim for a one point PH drop as that seems to put my tanks on the money for good strong plant growth without unduly effecting my fish.
When I set up a new tank, I spend a few days adjusting the C02 levels so I have a one point drop berofe the lights come on and try to get it to stay that way for the whole 7 hour lighting period.
After around one week I will know if things are looking ok, if I spot algae, I might increase the Co2, double the water changing and spend time cleaning the pants.
I am a huge fan of T5 lighting, I have found 2 x T5s the length of the tank works every time for me, so I don't really worry about the lighting I just concentrate on flow, C02 & daily maintenance.
Now a one point PH drop may not be ideal for your tanks but my point is to experiment and keep records of the PH until you have found what works for your own tank. When you are happy with the plants, then consider adding fish :)

Hi Foxfish, (still freaked out about that bloody avatar) promise us you will change it after Halloween!!

You are dead right about experimenting. I was so tempted last night to drop a few Cory's in there to aid the cycling, but now after reading what you said, I'm definitely going to leave it a week or two more to see how things progress.

Interesting to see that even after leaving the CO2 on all night there was still no 1 degree drop before the lights came on at 12 pm today!

My lighting previously was from the original Eheim Light unit with 2 X T5 tubes. Now I have got a US Satellite Freshwater Plant Pro LED which gives a lot more flexibility with the settings, from full on max daylight bright white, to very subtle red blue and green settings. It has a moonlight setting for night time, even got a setting that simulates sunny day with intermittent cloud cover. This is the setting I have got it on at the moment.

No algae present at the moment and Inhope it stays that way. But no ferts of any description going in either, this is because the JBL substrates I have used are supposed to contain all the minerals and nutrients required at this stage. What do you think?

Cheers,
Steve
 
I think you should turn the gas up just to see what happens.
There will be a ideal settings, for your gas matching your lights, the flow and & surface movement (gassing off C02) all need to be in harmony.
The guys with really successful tanks know how to do just that but I think you might need to experiment to find the best setting for your own tank.
I don't see any reason not to start liquid ferts.
 
Hi Steve,
What I meant is that you want to avoid having too much light. I've never advocated the use of mega lighting because that's what causes most of our problems.
I don't know what size tank this is, so I have no idea whether 2 bubbles per second is a lot or not enough.

Also, you noted that you measured the tanks alkalinity to be zero
1. PH = 6.80
2. KH = 0
Generally, pH measurement, especially with typical probes (I assume you are using a probe because you report the pH to two decimal places as well as a conductivity value) do not function that accurately with zero alkalinity. I believe that even the titration methods (liquids) may also not work as accurately.

I would probably raise the alkalinity a couple of units via addition of potassium carbonate (K2CO3) or potassium bicarbonate (KHCO3) just to ensure an accurate pH reading.
You can use JamesC's notes for remineralization of RO water but just use the KH adjustment numbers http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/RO.htm
at the very bottom:
1.5g NaHCO3 in 25 litres of water = 2 dKH
1.8g KHCO3 in 25 litres of water = 2 dKH
1.2g K2CO3 in 25 litres of water = 2 dKH

Also, as foxfish mentions, you can raise the bubble rate during the photoperiod. I see no need to run the gas over night.

Is this an open top tank or a closed top? You do get faster off-gassing with open top but that just means you need a higher injection rate to compensate.

Cheers,
 
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