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Struggling with Shrimp/Planted tank advise

tayloss

Member
Joined
10 Sep 2017
Messages
135
Location
Fareham
Hi all,

I have been setting up a planted tank with the view of having some Blue Bolt shrimps, but am not sure about the water quality or content/balance of shrimp needs vs plant needs.

The tank is driven by a nano CO2 system and the drop checker shows green, the parameters are as follows:-

Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 0
PH = 6.0-6.1
TDS - 180-190
KH = 0
GH = 8

Over on the other thread, I was advise to seek the expertise here for the correct water parameters when dealing with the shrimp side. To give a quick overview, I am using RO water with Bee Shrimp GH+ along with Dennerle Scapers Soil to help adjust the PH to below 7, however, I've been advise to add some KH as the tank requires some for general usage, but this will deplete the buffering ability?

I seemed to have opened up a can of worms as you can see from my thread here: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/new-planted-tank-struggling-a-little.50760/page-4#post-500121

As I'm not worried about fish, I have adjusted the all-in-one fertiliser to add some extra KNO3 (due to not meeting the recommended 20ppm), but everything I do adds to the TDS of the water and very quickly puts it outside of the recommend parameters for the shrimp. Taken just now, its around 236 (Monday water change). On a water change, I aim for around a TDS of 200 but am not sure if I am doing this right or i should do it at a lower TDS level to take into account my organic waste/ferts?

Is anyone able to point me in the right direction as I feel stuck at the moment.

Thanks in advance..

Chris
 
Hi, I'm afraid I wouldn't recommend keeping shadow bees such as blue bolts in a high tech tank. For these shrimp you really want kh0-1 and the fluctuations you are going to get with ferts and co2 are not going to be enjoyed by the shrimp. If you chose a hardier shrimp you would be fine I'm sure.


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Hi, I'm afraid I wouldn't recommend keeping shadow bees such as blue bolts in a high tech tank. For these shrimp you really want kh0-1 and the fluctuations you are going to get with ferts and co2 are not going to be enjoyed by the shrimp. If you chose a hardier shrimp you would be fine I'm sure.


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Thanks Lindy, I thought that would be the case..

What hardy shrimp would you recommend and should I make any changes to the WP or keep it the same?


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Neocaridina such as cherry shrimp should be fine. They are much hardier and are happy in a higher tds/gh. Caridina such as Crystal red shrimp might do ok but you'd really just need to give it a go. You can see quite quickly if they aren't happy as they will just stop doing anything. Unless shrimp are moulting they are always busy.
However if you reduced your light, with some floating plants for instance, you don't need co2 or high doses of ferts.


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Sorry for the terrible photo but this is my wee dennerle scapers tank. I water change once every couple of months, clean the filter every few months, no co2 and rarely put any ferts in. I had just butchered the rotala before this pic so it looks awful!
1c649803cc81de89053ccbd3bf0e92c9.jpg


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Still looks good tho :) I don't know what to do to be honest as feel stuck between algae and shrimps...

I thought you could have shrimp with a high tech tank, but am guessing from your comments, more hardy RCS variety?

Or I may keep it just as a planted tank?
 
Hi, I don't see any issue with using CO2 and firts in a Taiwan Bee shrimp tank if your sensible about it. I've just setup a 30 litre nano planted tanks with Taiwan Bee Shrimp. I use liquid CO2 daily and Dennerle ferts once a week, shrimp are fine and breeding and the plants are growing well. I tend to keep my TDS at 160 with my KH at 0 and GH at 3. I've got Blue Bolt, Red Bolt, Green Hulk, Pinto Wine, red and black bee shrimp.

DSC02911.JPG


more images of my tanks are here - https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/new-taiwan-bee-tank.50709/
 
Do you ave rocks in your shrimp tank? and how old is your RO filter?

Thanks
Hi David,

Here is a photo from the tank taken just a moment ago:
711f1d02128d8d53bec2e6dabc137b6e.jpg

I do have some rocks, not many as its mainly wood, but I don't think the photo does it justice as it looks better in the flesh!

My RO filter is less than a year old and is used to make my salt mix for my marine tank, so is in regular use.. What do you use to remineralise your RO water and will slowly reduce my TDS to match.. I do daily all-in-one ferts, so will measure the TDS levels to ensure they are in specifications. Does your substrate buffer as well then?

Thanks,
Chris
 
Hi Chris the rocks could be part of the issue. Most rocks will leach minerals into the water which effects tds and kh. I had a big issue with my first shrimp tank, the tds in the water kept increasing by 15 everyday. I ended up setting up a new tank with just wood and after a week the water parameter are stable the kh and tds dont change. I would also recommend changing the prefilters in your ro filter. And the membrane if the water that comes out ever goes over 10 tds. I use salty shrimp gh+ and get my ro water up to 160 tds then add weekly ferts that are shrimp friendly. I'm using cal aqua black earth it has does buffer the water but isn't specifically for shrimp. I also use alder cones and Capps leaves.
 
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Most stones from LFS are inert like dragon stone. You need to avoid seiryu stone which will raise KH. I have three bits in my 100ltr tank and 2kh tapwater but my tank tends to sit at around 4KH depending on how much water I change, usually 50% weekly. I also use Almond leaves and Oak leaves for my tannins. it's the time of year to start gathering @tayloss Get yourself a big bag of freshly dropped Oak leaves preferably away from the road and dry them out, they'll last all year and shrimp love grazing on them.

A planted tank and shrimp aren't mutually exclusive, you can have both just hi tech tanks require a fair bit of work regarding changing water and over dosing salts to be on the safe side for the plants where certain shrimp prefer a calmer, stable environment. If you lower lighting and pick plant species carefully I think you could manage to get the best of both worlds. As Lindy says red cherries and Amano shrimp seem to be the most hardy.
 
Think I’ll go for some red cherries and see how they do!! Should have stayed low tech and it would have been slightly simpler operation..


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Ok, if you see my other thread, I may remove the CO2 from the tank and remove or reduce the fertiliser to make it Shrimp safe?


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remove or reduce the fertiliser to make it Shrimp safe
If you switch to a weekly fert like Denerle Scapers green with NPK Booster at recommended dosage the shrimp will be fine. Also if your going to have cherry shrimp whey wont have any issues with CO2 as long as your drop indicator is green. I've been using those ferts in a tank with Blue Dream shrimp and another thank with Taiwan Bee shrimp with no ill side effects and both tanks have breeding shrimp. I also use CO2 injection in the tank with Blue Dream shrimp.
 
There's nothing wrong with injecting co2 into shrimp tanks, shrimp live in water naturally containing co2 just as long as you avoid sudden changes and extremes of levels. You just need to keep in mind that at the start with your new substrate which leaches out acids to buffer the ph down and injecting co2 which again is acidic and lowers the ph while running soft water with no KH ph can drop quite quickly. KH is there to absorb some of the acidity. As you've already realised if your lighting isn't too bright you don't need to run your co2 as high some people do in high light tanks but adding some will be beneficial to plants. My last shrimp tank I just had it ticking away at 1 bubble a second with low lighting.

As your KH is lower your PH readings are less accurate because even the slightest bit of acidity will cause a major drop in PH. In your other post Clive suggested having "some" KH just to give your PH readings some relevance (see the chart) People aim for 30ppm co2 which is good for plants and saafe for fish. If you want some KH just add a little of your tapwater to the RO and find out what the correct ratio is to get that 1KH which the shrimp specialists suggest and try out some Red Cherries for now which are hardier and will forgive you if you get it wrong within reason. Once you think you have it sorted and confident move on to some fancy shrimp, a lot will live together quite happily and not cross breed (see chart) co2_ph_kH_chart.png co2_ph_kH_chart.png Dwarfd Shrimp compatibility-chart.jpg
 
So should I keep the water at 0KH and continue with the water parameters I have?

David, what do you have as your parameters and just wonder then if I should adjust the ferts as you mentioned?

Will my algae come back tho without the daily ferts?


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Hi
The water parameters matter if U stick to Cardina shrimps only.The Neocardina and Amanos will tolerate wide range of parameters and CO2.About the algae it depends on the strength of your light.The lower the light the bigger margin for mistakes.U dont have to be bang on the 30ppm CO2 to grow plants high tech.With lower light and less ferts U may need only 15-20ppm.Use floaters to dim it if U have to .They will balance the tank too as absorb a lot of amonia from the organic waste production.If U are using RO water mix it so the TDS is on the lower range for the chosen shrimp check how much it will up with the ferts U use.
Regards Konsa
 
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Hi
The water parameters matter if U stick to Cardina shrimps only.The Neocardina and Amanos will tolerate wide range of parameters and CO2.About the algae it depends on the strength of your light.Use floaters to dim it if U have to .They will balance the tank too as absorb a lot of amonia from the organic waste production.
Regards Konsa

Thanks Konsa, I have added some frogbit to the tank this week and it’s doing really well! So the tank will be dimmer in no time!

Looks like I’m going for the Neo’s.. thanks for all you help :)


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So should I keep the water at 0KH and continue with the water parameters I have?

All depends on what shrimp you want to keep. If you want to keep CRS or Taiwan bee shrimp I would get your tds down to below 180 and your gh to between 2-4. If your keeping cherry type shrimp your parameters will be fine. I started out with CRS which wasn't successful I always had issues with water parameters, then tried some Cull Taiwan Bee shrimp, which was more successful but I ended up doing water changes every other day. Then I read the stones in my tank will alter water parameters, I really like the scape in that tank so I setup a new tank specifically for the Taiwan Bee shrimp, I didn't put any rocks in this one and the new tank cycled in a week and after 2 weeks the parameters were spot on and rock solid. I also changed the pre filter, carcon filter and membrane in my RO filter and got a food safe bpa free water contain. RO water will suck any minerals it can out of whatever it is in and if you container isn't food safe it can leach unwanted stuff into the water. I did a test and put pure RO water 0 tds in my old container left it over night and by morning the tds was 20!

Since making those changes all my bee shrimp are happy and have started breeding in the new tank :)

David, what do you have as your parameters

Taiwan Bee tank, Liquid CO2 and weekly ferts -
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 0
PH = 5.4
TDS - 160
KH = 0
GH = 4

Blue Dream Shrimp tanks, CO2 injection and weekly ferts -
Ammonia = 0
Nitrite = 0
Nitrate = 0
PH = 6.5
TDS - 205
KH = 5
GH = 8

Will my algae come back tho without the daily ferts?

I have a little algae growth on the glass of my tank and a slight greening on my rocks in the Blue Dream shrimp tank, that's about it.
 
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