kadoxu
Member
+1 for removing uneaten food after a few minutes. That's probably what is causing the free floating fungus stuff.
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Golden cobra snakehead group tank
- Thread starter TomatoandEgg
- Start date
kadoxu
Member
Wow... did a quick search... didn't know these things grew up to be 40cm long!! Even keeping a single one in that tank would be pushing it!-5 for putting fish like that in such a small tank...
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TomatoandEgg
Member
@scifi and roadmaster thanks for the advice. i'm going to try and switch them over to prawns since they don't explode and fill the tank full of junk when eaten. i'll look into getting a fluidised sump for filtration. will deffo think about changing the substrate if i can't get a handle on things in the upcoming weeks. i think the BB is going to have to ramp up it's muscle to cope with the increased load. People on monsterfishkeepers have kept aurantis with just sponge filters so i think i have a chance!!!
regarding O2 these fish being surface breathers actually can tolerate swampy garbage water no problems.
regarding O2 these fish being surface breathers actually can tolerate swampy garbage water no problems.
TomatoandEgg
Member
Uhuh
5 of them dying a horrible death wasn't enough i guess...
maybe you didn't read my earlier post but this is just a grow in tank for the juvies, i'll be moving them into a much bigger tank down the road.
and fyi with groups of juvie snakeheads there's a decent chance of a pair forming, in which case they quickly and violently kill all other fish in the tank, so fingers crossed that's only 4 that will die a horrible death...if i don't catch them in the act.
roadmaster
Member
Good oxygen more important for bacteria colony and heavy load that these fishes represent.
TomatoandEgg
Member
so aside surface agitation and lots of plants what else to boost o2? i dont have an air stone
roadmaster
Member
Well you might consider a sponge filter with air pump and or air stone to run at night, when plant's are using up oxygen.
More oxygen also at lower temps than warmer .
Some literature on these fishes suggest that hey need half year of warmer temps say during winter month's, and cooler temps during summer.
If you have good surface ripple,then perhaps the sponge filter and or air stone is not needed but both are good items to have, as opposed to not having them if needed and are not too expensive..
.
More oxygen also at lower temps than warmer .
Some literature on these fishes suggest that hey need half year of warmer temps say during winter month's, and cooler temps during summer.
If you have good surface ripple,then perhaps the sponge filter and or air stone is not needed but both are good items to have, as opposed to not having them if needed and are not too expensive..
.
TomatoandEgg
Member
thanks mate!
kadoxu
Member
I'm sorry to rain on your parade but it's stronger than me i guess...
Sadly enough: I did read (most) of the journal and i have to say that I was shocked a few times…
First of all: In case you don't know by now: that tank is to small for five (!) of those fish, even for growing purposes.
These fish deserve better any day of the week.
So, you put in the first 4 snakeheads, the tank starts crashing. Fish die and the snakeheads “melt” very rapidly?
Even tough trouble was to be expected imo I won't judge you on that. (The pictures of the sick fish are pure horror, but hey, that happens...)
Mistakes can be made and that's okay as long as you learn from it and act accordingly the next time around.
But what actually happened next truly shocked me to the bone.
Let me explain with some quotes:
Say what?? Did I misread this?
He gave you a "replacement", you accept that and keep the fish some time in a small tupperware? (to make him more vulnerable for disease or what was the idea?)
And two weeks later you just add this healthy fish to a crashing tank with "melting" fish?
Hmmm, that is not the way animal lovers would react when they have an illusive illness killing everything in their tank i think.
If i would see fish dying like that in my tank i would feel horrible and would do anything to avoid this from happening again.
But you hardly seem touched by this?
In the contrary: all that is not enough to wake you up.
Oh no no, you just nuke the tank and start over doing the exact same thing: overstocking with fish that just don't belong in a tank like this. That’s is just ridiculous if you ask me.
Well it would be ridiculous if it didn’t involve live animals.
With living animals this is not a laughing matter, it’s just sad and tragic…
So I’m sorry to say but: “Dude, what’s wrong with you? Seriously!”
fyi the fact that they kill eachother just tells me that those fish are not to be kept in groups in a small tank.
Not as adults, not as a group of young fish...
I really wonder: if you know this why are you doing it in the first place?
I am struggling not to use harder words here. I love animals and reading your journal really hurts me… Sad but true
Sadly enough: I did read (most) of the journal and i have to say that I was shocked a few times…
First of all: In case you don't know by now: that tank is to small for five (!) of those fish, even for growing purposes.
These fish deserve better any day of the week.
So, you put in the first 4 snakeheads, the tank starts crashing. Fish die and the snakeheads “melt” very rapidly?
Even tough trouble was to be expected imo I won't judge you on that. (The pictures of the sick fish are pure horror, but hey, that happens...)
Mistakes can be made and that's okay as long as you learn from it and act accordingly the next time around.
But what actually happened next truly shocked me to the bone.
Let me explain with some quotes:
Say what?? Did I misread this?
He gave you a "replacement", you accept that and keep the fish some time in a small tupperware? (to make him more vulnerable for disease or what was the idea?)
And two weeks later you just add this healthy fish to a crashing tank with "melting" fish?
Hmmm, that is not the way animal lovers would react when they have an illusive illness killing everything in their tank i think.
If i would see fish dying like that in my tank i would feel horrible and would do anything to avoid this from happening again.
But you hardly seem touched by this?
In the contrary: all that is not enough to wake you up.
Oh no no, you just nuke the tank and start over doing the exact same thing: overstocking with fish that just don't belong in a tank like this. That’s is just ridiculous if you ask me.
Well it would be ridiculous if it didn’t involve live animals.
With living animals this is not a laughing matter, it’s just sad and tragic…
So I’m sorry to say but: “Dude, what’s wrong with you? Seriously!”
fyi the fact that they kill eachother just tells me that those fish are not to be kept in groups in a small tank.
Not as adults, not as a group of young fish...
I really wonder: if you know this why are you doing it in the first place?
I am struggling not to use harder words here. I love animals and reading your journal really hurts me… Sad but true
sciencefiction
Member
- Joined
- 26 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 3,412
To pair these fish you need to get a group. Basically, if it goes to plan, the most dominant female will either kill the lot, or every other one bar the chosen male.
As the OP suggested, these fish actually do not require water changes, as long as there's no ammonia/nitrites, they don't care much From what I read, in fact water changes can be detrimental to them if too often. The suitable schedule is something like twice a year!....providing they are in their final tank big enough to house them for life...So the situation here is completely different than that of the usual fish tank...
The melting may have been a disease....made worse by the shipping/move and perhaps a bit of an ammonia/nitrite spike...No matter the tank, that bioload at once will cause spikes. The problem here is that these fish are sensitive to "fresh water"
So I would not be so judgemental of the OP's tactics. I hope he is fast enough removing the inferior fish when the dominant starts attacking...And when the pair forms, move them on to better quarters.....The killing will happen in any size tank so that doesn't matter. The focus now is to keep the water free of ammonia and nitrite....considering the food intake require...So yes, I would have chosen a larger tank for that purpose alone.
As the OP suggested, these fish actually do not require water changes, as long as there's no ammonia/nitrites, they don't care much From what I read, in fact water changes can be detrimental to them if too often. The suitable schedule is something like twice a year!....providing they are in their final tank big enough to house them for life...So the situation here is completely different than that of the usual fish tank...
The melting may have been a disease....made worse by the shipping/move and perhaps a bit of an ammonia/nitrite spike...No matter the tank, that bioload at once will cause spikes. The problem here is that these fish are sensitive to "fresh water"
So I would not be so judgemental of the OP's tactics. I hope he is fast enough removing the inferior fish when the dominant starts attacking...And when the pair forms, move them on to better quarters.....The killing will happen in any size tank so that doesn't matter. The focus now is to keep the water free of ammonia and nitrite....considering the food intake require...So yes, I would have chosen a larger tank for that purpose alone.
Okay, so this is different than a "usual" fish tank...
And is one of the differences than that with this fish it IS a GOOD idea to add a healthy fish (after you weaken it for two weeks in a tupperware dish ofcourse) to a crashing tank with melting fish?
That is very special to me...
When this happens in the wild could it be possible that the males just swim away instead of being killed off?
It would be wise to respect nature more and to avoid situations like this in a closed environment of a fish tank.
There is a reason why this species is advised to be kept alone in a specific tank.
Even with established couples the risks remains that they suddenly kill eachother when they are together in a tank, in the wild they have their "single" periods so never a guarantee that it won't end in a killing spree...
So if you really want to keep these fish it's better to keep them in an adequate sized and decorated tank
(far too many times you read that the tank will be updated when the fish grows and in a lot of cases this never happens... )
If you are serious about it than start serious...
So begin with buying an adequate tank from the start,
build it to their specific needs,
keep them (or better one) with respect and wisdom,
if things go south, find out what went wrong before buying new fish
when you see that you are not really able to provide to their needs be true to yourself and change plan,
....
(i could go on but you catch my drift i guess)
The aquariumtrade is robbing these beautiful species from nature, just to provide the (huge) demand for this species so some care should be present...
So basicly: at least think and rethink your plan again after killing off 5 of them in your first attempt...
They are cool fish but it's far from cool to have them dying at this rate, anything but cool to read that a healthy fish is thrown in a sick tank just to see what happens... So uncool..
Just my two cents.
I was and still am weighing my words, not being judgemental imo.
But I would suggest to the OP to show some more respect for the fish and adopt a different, fish friendly approach actually. Sometimes the right decision is not the easiest one. OP could try to make a decision based on "love for the animal" instead of blindly following his "urge to collect".
sciencefiction
Member
- Joined
- 26 Feb 2013
- Messages
- 3,412
They can be rather fast biting a fish's head off...so it will depend on the opponent
I am going to respond on behalf of the OP on this but his tank is build to the needs of the fish. They need a planted tank.
Size wise, its on the small side but we've all been guilty of doing that at some point or another. The fish have enough room to turn around and swim. The point of a bigger tank has a meaning behind it..... and its either for water quality purposes(not applicable to this species much), physical space to turn around(at the moment not an issue) or due to providing territories....again not applicable to this fish as they'll kill each other in any size tank...The only way to pair them is to dump them in the same tank...that's just the way it is with these fish.....
I get where you're coming from but most times one doesn't know what exactly happens and its a speculation unless you have access to proper equipment and are equipped with proper knowledge....Majority of times fish die for undetermined reasons...
This is an aquascape tank, not in the least build for those fish. They even look out of proportion from day one.
From the word go it wasn't adapted to their needs because OP used soil which is not done for the sake of the fish. The size is way to small, filter doesn't suffice and the stones are not ideal, nor were the other inhabitants... I don't see how it was build to their needs at all...
Okay, it has plants but that alone doesn't do the trick.
This type and size of tank is build to the needs of rather small fish, groups of fish or shrimp, not tailored for huge and aggresive snakefish that grow up to 40cm. Not even for a week...
Maybe my other arguments are debatable so i will stop arguing about them but i refuse to accept any argument in favor of the that one healthy fish being dumped in a tank with melting buddies...That is just wrong all the time, wrong on soooo many levels..
Shame!!!
When your animals are melting away in front of your eyes you just DON'T add new fish. NEVER the right thing to do, we all know that i presume...
Come on, there were so many alternatives at hand, don't dump it in there to see if it rots away like the rest.
Shame!
That's just animal abuse to me, there you go...
Shame!!! (GOT-style)
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his is an aquascape tank, not in the least build for those fish. They even look out of proportion from day one.
From the word go it wasn't adapted to their needs because OP used soil which is not done for the sake of the fish. The size is way to small, filter doesn't suffice and the stones are not ideal, nor were the other inhabitants... I don't see how it was build to their needs at all...
Okay, it has plants but that alone doesn't do the trick.
This type and size of tank is build to the needs of rather small fish, groups of fish or shrimp, not tailored for huge and aggresive snakefish that grow up to 40cm. Not even for a week...
A very little reading shows that a "channa"-specific tank needs (I leave the completely unsuited size out of it)
-temperature should not be constant. They need seasonal variation in temperature, a summer and a winter period is important.
-Dimly lit tank
-loads of surface vegetation
-they need large plants with enough hiding places
-A tightly closed hood is essential since they are escape artists... (OP has an open tank, no? They didn't bother to escape 'cause they were melting i guess
)-no food during the cold period
-...
So tell me again why this high light and open top (small but essential detail with five of them cramped together) and carefully aquascaped tank with mainly low vegetation, big stones and steep slopes instead of hiding spots is build specific for Channa's?
i'm sorry but don't hand me a loaded gun by claiming something like that, i might have a triggerfinger
Quote from Seriously fish:
"Since it is less of an ecological generalist than many Channa species, requires a specific type of microhabitat, has a restricted range and is never found in large numbers it is recommended as a concern for conservation by Goswami et al., 2006., who also noted that it is ‘rampantly fished’ for food and the ornamental trade."
Five in a 120cm tank is not a natural situation one could say after reading that... And since they are under human pressure one should at least show some respect if one can't resist on the urgent need to keep a fish like that no matter what....
See my point?
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Smells Fishy
Member
TomatoandEgg might have made some mistakes, everybody does. All that is trying to be achieved in this journal is breeding an awesome fish in a nice setting. The guys just being a maverick, doing things differently, and I'm totally down for that. This journal is a nice change from scapes with tetras etc. It would have been nice to see a tank double the size tho.
Okay, so being a maverick implies housing fish that are known escape artists in an open top tank?
An open tank that is btw way too small for a group fish (even for a single fish).Better be there and have godspeed when they start to fight in there...
Too small a tank but also a tank that is totally unfit for the species (plantwise, lightwise, scapewise, "lid"wise...).
So being maverick also means that he is going to prove everybody wrong by coupling (and even breeding this) (specificly hard to breed) species in a totally unadapted, unsuited tank?
He will teach them not to try and escape the tank by leaving it open, overstocking it and put a high light above it and by avoiding surface plantation.
Is that the strategy to keep a fish, known for his ability to find any small opening for escaping, in the tank?
Willingly risking the lifes of the fish, also doing that 'maverickstyléé'?
The first batch goes wrong, terribly wrong, what to do?
'Nuke the tank and then start again, and do it in exactely the same way' ol'maverick says?
Doing those things "differently" in this case doesn't strike me as innovating, it doesn't give me the feeling of "a nice change from scapes with tetra's" at all, sorry to say...
It's more like doing things the wrong way which is not really impressive to me even if it involves a different approach, wrong way stays the wrong way...
I said before: if you keep a fish like that, well knowing the pressure humans put on the species, at least do it good! Inform yourself, make a suitable tank. Saying that it is specific for their needs doesn't make it suited automatically. It is still an unsuited tank on so many levels that it is hard to pick one...
I'll pick one anyway, just for fun: I should not be pointing out to OP that an open tank is not really the way to go, OP should know that if he informs just a tiny bit about this fish's needs. And it's not a detail once your snakeheads dry out somewhere between tank and door...
And, yeah yeah here I go again, once again i want to remind you that i said that making mistakes is okay. But throwing a new and "healthy" fish in a crashing tank with melting fish (MELTING FISH, that is not so common i think?) to see how it goes is just abuse, it's not a mistake if you know the outcome before you make the mistake.
Then it is called a "decision", a sentence to death by melting away if you want....
You may be totally down for that,
personally i GET totally down from reading this journal...
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TomatoandEgg
Member
I’m in malaysia so I woke up to this long debate. I’m out for the day so I can’t reply but I’ll weigh in later. Thanks for the responses from both sides I appreciate the discussion and advice.
I’ll respond later tonight.
I’ll respond later tonight.
