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Helanthium tenellum?

zozo

zozo

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Joined
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Recently i bought a pot and i'm growing it on emersed.. Looking it up there seem to be 2 different plants going around in the trade the South American <Helantium tenellum> formerly aka Echinodorus tenellus and the North American <Helantium tenellum "parvullum">.

Actualy flowgrow is s far the only database i could find mentioning this mix up.. And says the parvullum should have a distinct different flower but doesn't give any further obvious details to properly identify the plant other than this older botanical drawing.

This alledgedly is the parvullum.
helanthium-tenellum-parvulum-54318e8ba496c.jpg


For the SA hellamtium version i can not find any proper data that looks very much different. Even googling for it shows pictures and articles seemingly erroneously mixing these 2 plants up as the same. The NA parvullum should have broader leaves, but it's not clear to me if that is only the case for the submersed grow form.

The shop i bought it from states it's the SA version, but i know this shop also to be notorios for selling erroneously identfied plants and seems not the only one.. Since i bought an almost flowering emersed version i'm absolutely in doubt about what it realy is. It kinda looks like a parvullum.. Actualy could be wishfull thinking, i hope it is, this means i might be able to cultivate it emersed and outdoors in the garden, if it's the one originating from North America. :)
DSCF1037.JPG


Anyway, does anybody know to find references with clear examples of flower difference between both plants to get a definitive ID of what i have here.

Thanks.. :)
 
hogan53 said:
Helanthium tenellum "parvulum" flower.....allegedly!
helanthium-tenellum-parvulum-4f7a02fc151ac.jpg

Looks different from the drawing so could be Helanthium tenellum .
Click to expand...

That's the thing googling for both with the query flower gives mixed results, i can not realy find both species compaired.
If you search Helantium tenellum flower the exact same pictures turn up as above and this bellow.
Helanthium_tenellum5.jpg


And searching for the parvulla doesn't realy show any pictures at all. Found one <database describing the Hellantium genus in German>.. And i'll be darned it's the only one that they doesn't show a picture of, only a brief description that still doesn't make much sense for proper ID. Also seems this Parvulla also erroneously goes around as Sagittaria microfolia and Ranalisma rostrata.. The plot only thickens the deeper i dive in.. :) Tho flow grow states their should be destinct difference in the flower, but nobody shows it.. :mad:
 
Edvet said:
Was there a etiket so you can see where it was grown? You could ask the grower.
Keep it emersed and let it flower, it was grown emersed anyways is my guess.
Click to expand...

That's what i'm waiting for, the last picture of my openings post is my plant.. It's about to flower.. But than i still have no references to compair.. :(

Asking the grower wont make much difference his webshop states its the true Hellantium tenellum.. But he sold me more than once plants that were misidentified.. Namly crypts he sells are oftenly not what they are.. So i trust him as far as i can see him..
 
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hogan53 said:
Yours looks like the Broad Leaf variety!
https://www.aquasabi.com/aquatic-pl...anthium-parvulum-broad-leaf?search=Helanthium tenellum
hoggie



​
Click to expand...

Yup that's what i also suspect.. I was just wondering for references that are absolutely conclusive.. And the more i search it looks more and more that nobody realy knows.

Example, looks like both show the exact same plant.
http://www.biosci.utexas.edu/prc/digflora/wrc/NonEndemics/720/ECPA6-21Mar07-402A.html

https://gobotany.newenglandwild.org/species/helanthium/tenellum/

There should be flower difference the say.. But i don't see it, must be a tiny detail.. :)

Or we are caught in the middle of a Botanicus quarrel they yet still can't agree uppon..
 
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I couldn't resist asking the experts at Flowgrow.. The difference in the flower is Helantium tenellum has >10mm flowers The H. t. parvulum <10mm flower. :)

Let the flowering begin... :cool:
 
It's outdoors already.. At least a small piece of it.. But it'll flower this summer.. :)
 
hogan53 said:
Helanthium_tenellum5.jpg
[These two flowers look different]
helanthium-tenellum-parvulum-4f7a02fc151ac.jpg

We need Mick.D to sort it out;):D
Click to expand...

I guess it might be just that.. :) At flow grow thread it was fairly good described what the grow characteristics are from different variations of the tenellum submersed as emersed...
And reading that, it might be that i had the parvulum before way back in the 1970's. It seems at that time it was rather commonly available but nowadays for some odd reason rarer to find. It seems to be an easy carpeting plant not growing bigger than 5cm submersed.. And i remember having such a plant carpeting my low tech tank with in a few months time not growing bigger than 5cm.. But back than i wasn't realy into plant names, so i never knew it's name. I got it from a felllow aquarist without asking.. Remembering it, i always thought it was Sagittaria subulata because that was the closest resamblance i could find.. But this sag grows bigger than i remember from that plant back then.. Now reading the parvulum description i suspect i had this plant in those days without knowing it.

I have been searching and wondering a long time to find out what it was i had.. And it must be the parvulum.. There is no other broader leaf grasy carpeting plant looking like it staying that small..

What a coincidence, to find it back like this.. And i realy wonder why this HT broadleaf got out of fashion and is so rare to find nowadays..
 
Still patiently waiting for it to flower.. But regarding the plant experts at flowgrow the chances are in favor i got me the parvulum. :)
That would be a first time that i like to thank the shop owner for selling me a misidentified plant.. :lol:

Here is the flowgrow thread for those interested.
https://www.flowgrow.de/general-planted-tank-discussions-f119/helanthium-tenellum-t47890.html
:thumbup:

It seems that in most cases the Helantium tenellum sold is not what it should be. The real one doens't seem to be cultivated at all.
 
Angus said:
Would be interesting to hear from @Mick.Dk if he knows any reasons why it has gone out of fashion with growers... :)
Click to expand...
The Tropica 1-2-Grow version of Helantium tenellum is delibetately variety-named 'Green', because of the unclear botanical naming. It is clearly different from the potted variety from Tropica.
Potted variety have very narrow leaves submersed and leaves are a darker green., newest leaves often a red-ish colour. This is likely the plant referred to as "Helanthium tenellum tenellum".
1-2-Grow variety have much broader leaves submersed and always a bright green colour. Never red-ish leaves. Grown with intensive light and added CO2, this variety grow rather tall (taller than the potted variety) - but in lower light and without added CO2 this variety stay very low... .....actually resembling a poor growing Saggitaria. This could very well be the one referred to as "Helanthium tenellum parvulum".
I too, have likely had different types of "Echinodorus tenellus" in my 40 years of this hobby....... but it is very difficult as a private aquarist, to know if the difference are due to genetics or environment. I allways considered it due to environment, untill I paralell-tested plants from different sources and found clear differences.
 
Mick.Dk said:
t is clearly different from the potted variety from Tropica.
Click to expand...
Is Tropica still supplying the potted version (which I prefer)?
I've noticed it's off the website
- & off the available lists when I tried to order :(

I've grown the out of Asia "short chain sword" or "micro sword" that has emerse growth similar to Marcel's first post photo - it's uniike Tropica potted or 1-2-Grow variants

BUT it's also been a long time so perhaps what's in that first post photo is no longer the plant I once grew :confused:
 
alto said:
I've grown the out of Asia "short chain sword" or "micro sword" that has emerse growth similar to Marcel's first post photo - it's uniike Tropica potted or 1-2-Grow variants
Click to expand...
i think i have some of this, mis-labeled as crypt parva from the seller, it grows really slow.
 
"Out of Asia" plants can be (almost) anything - though I suspect this is more a function of supplier/seller rather than grower - but none of the chain or micro swords I had, grew as slowly as (or non-distinct from) C parva
though what shipped in as C parva was certainly more varied (than usual)

C parva is decidedly best supplied from Tropica - or perhaps other European nurseries - only consistent C parva I've grown has been from Tropica

These emerse mini swords can be decidedly slow to transform to submerse & grow well
 
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