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Overflow / Spray bar / Powerheads positioning

Andrew Butler said:
Just my opinion..........

Why bother with the spraybars? This goes against everything I normally think but with a tank that big I'm not so sure a spraybar is your best answer and maybe simply relying on some well placed powerheads could work better.
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Spraybars are among the best answers but they are not always used because they are ugly and are very difficult to implement correctly on a large scale.

Andrew Butler said:
I guess you could argue that doing away with a spraybar is just wasting flow but if you are to look at a reef aquarium then returns from a sump tend to just be an angled nozzle under the waterline and distribution of flow is primarily down to powerheads.
More so I also think a spraybar is more useful when used to create flow in a tank and just think that 1700 is a bit far for it to work and create a cycle.
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Reef tanks have little in common with planted tanks in this regard. Freshwater leaves require a certain flow rate and direction across the surface of the leaves in order for the boundary layer thickness to be reduced sufficiently to maximize the movement of the gasses across the boundary layer.

Andrew Butler said:
Any reason for this given the water will get oxygenated as it falls into the sump?
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Water that falls and crashes onto water or onto other surfaces immediately evaporates the CO2. For this reason, it is better to avoid falling water and instead to have a full siphon from the tank and to extend the tube in the sump so that the end of the siphon tube is just below the surface of the water. Crashing over baffles and other obstructions should also be minimized to reduce off-gassing of the CO2.

rebel said:
Does anyone know whether the 10 times rule scales up like this? Does the ratio change with very large tanks?
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As Edvert mentions, our 10X rule was meant to neutralize the effect of manufactures who provide inflated flow ratings.
To achieve the boundary layer management I mentioned, plants really only need about 3X-5X the tank volume per hour in a CO2 tank. We find however, that in typical installations the filters only deliver about 40%-50% of their rated flow, so the 10X rule is a "fudge factor" to ensure that the filters will deliver the necessary flow. So this is regardless of tank size and if anything, is more important in large tanks. Whether this is achieved by filter alone or by combination of filters and pumps doesn't really matter.

Cheers,
 
Personally, I never push high flows over the weir due to C02 loss, I would rather recirculate the water Column and push 3 x the volume over the weir.
A relitivily small trickle tower will do the bio filtration.... lots of options and many ways to skin a cat!
 
Planning on getting two Maxpect Gyres myself to get good flow in my 500l tank, my tank is flow limited ATM IMO the claimed 6500lph just isnt cutting it of my Fluval FX6 and eheim 3000+, any increase in the light just leads to melting leaves, any increase in plant biomass leads less flow which leads to melting leaves.My CO2 is maxed out with DC light yellow to clear and one 6.5Kg cylinder of CO2 lasts about a month.So need better flow/distrubution to get the CO2 to the plants quicker and to all areas of the tank.

The gyre is very controllable and not expensive compared to the 12v controllable powerheads on the market. Plus no pipework £££ and minimal size footprint in tank easy to clean,adjust flow, change position NO pipes to clean !!!!

Well worth at look at for your monster tank IMO. Then like Foxfish suggests you can have a low flow going though your filter so less CO2 loss and the Gyres can take care of the flow/turnover. They do have a new model coming out in sept which is replacing the XF230, same size but quieter then the current model, which is the one I'm after. The XF250 is suppose to be quiet, couple of XF250 would do the turnover easy
 
ceg4048 said:
Spraybars are among the best answer
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I completely agree with you Clive and haven't looked back since you advised me to give them a go, I just think the size and flow rate needed for an aquarium this size would be quite something.
If a product like the Maxspect Gyre exists and gives you full control then why not utilise it?
They 'suck' as well as 'blow', you can adjust angle, power, direction, height.

Zeus. said:
Well worth at look at for your monster tank IMO. Then like Foxfish suggests you can have a low flow going though your filter so less CO2 loss and the Gyres can take care of the flow/turnover.
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Agree 100% - but this is just my opinion.
 
Andrew Butler said:
f a product like the Maxspect Gyre exists and gives you full control then why not utilise it?
They 'suck' as well as 'blow', you can adjust angle, power, direction, height.
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This might give you the flow you want, but I would build a huge CO2 reactor anyways to get enough CO2 dissolved, and this will need a large pump anyway, and distributing that through a large tank will be easiest with a spray bar, you might add the Gyre, or even need it to get the distribution correct.
 
Edvet said:
I would build a huge CO2 reactor anyways
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I believe Filip has a couple of big CO2 reactors to go with his two return pumps that will dissolve the amount of CO2 he was talking about before.
Surely if that CO2 enriched water is delivered to the tank it is then just a case of having it distributed evenly?
 
ceg4048 said:
Spraybars are among the best answers [...]

Water that falls and crashes onto water or onto other surfaces immediately evaporates the CO2. For this reason, it is better to avoid falling water and instead to have a full siphon from the tank and to extend the tube in the sump so that the end of the siphon tube is just below the surface of the water. Crashing over baffles and other obstructions should also be minimized to reduce off-gassing of the CO2.

Cheers,
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I've been lurking around forums for a while, and took note of the need for a full syphon, and advantages of spraybars for CO2 distribution. Most likely from your old posts! (cheers!)
For this reason, I'm building a 3 pipe, bean-animal style overflow system, and 2 spraybars (not bothered about the looks).
I will have a 6500L/h pump connected to one, and a 10,000L/h to the other (both Jebao/Jecod AC). Each pump will push the water through a separate large CO2 reactor.
Hopefully, the flow will be slowed down enough (by height, and CO2 reactors), so that I won't have 16,500L/h going through my sump. Hopefully half that or less. I can always turn it down anyway.

The circulation around the tank itself will be managed with powerheads, I've 3 x 12,000 L/h cheapo ones, will upgrade need be.

Can't wait to start testing, perhaps this weekend.
 
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Edvet said:
Oh and if everything looks OK, put some large flow disrupting items in the tank ( mimicing the layout you have in mind) and see how that works out
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Oh that's a thought...
I've some food grade glitter I could put in, to see the flow around obstacles. Too much mess? Food colouring enough? (got that too!)

Now, if only I can teach my 5 year old to hold her breath, and sit on the bottom of the tank for 2 minutes...
 
Filip Krupa said:
I've some food grade glitter I could put in, to see the flow around obstacles. Too much mess? Food colouring enough? (got that too!)
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Problem is with checking flow in a tank that's just hardscape is the plants are going to change everything and it's a dynamic situation. As it grows in you may find the flow setup you had no longer fits the current condition of the tank and may need a little tweaking. Rather than food dyes etc maybe you could use some blackwater extract like tetra or something that stains the water brown a little, put a few drops in and see where it goes then adjust pumps and outlets to suite. You could also knock up some of your own using oak or almond leaves and leave them soaking in a bucket until the water is brown. I think someone also mentioned that you could use a certain type of tea. At least that way what you are putting in an already running tanks is actually of some use to the tank with dual purpose.

Thinking about it the doctor medic o2 creators are quite good in this situation, just get the el cheapo one from hinterfield. Doesn't need to be on the whole time but the mist it creates is very buoyant and hangs in the column for some time, they are actually quite good at seeing how your water is flowing around the tank and with the benefit of some pure o2.
 
AverageWhiteBloke said:
Thinking about it the doctor medic o2 creators are quite good in this situation, just get the el cheapo one from hinterfield. Doesn't need to be on the whole time but the mist it creates is very buoyant and hangs in the column for some time, they are actually quite good at seeing how your water is flowing around the tank and with the benefit of some pure o2.
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Like it!
This should be a fun weekend.

Fil
 
really stunning tank, miss having a tank of such volume aswell.Have you seen these from Jebao, would have bought these for mine.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JEBAO-JECOD-CROSS-FLOW-CP25-CP40-CP55-WAVE-MAKER-PUMP-AQUARIUM-4714-HC/222803691906?_trkparms=aid=555018&algo=PL.SIM&ao=2&asc=49130&meid=b66b1125762a444d8e874fb0ec40f75e&pid=100005&rk=4&rkt=12&sd=322846597134&itm=222803691906&_trksid=p2047675.c100005.m1851

upload_2018-6-2_1-58-7.png
 
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