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New build!

Looneeyy

Member
Joined
12 Jan 2017
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124
Location
Redditch
Afternoon all!
(pre-set up discussion, unsure on where thread should be)

So I’m going to be planning on starting my first aquascape! I have all the ideas set up but could do with your guys help with suggestions and ideas to make it better! Especially with prices! So here we go!

Tank&Cabinet: Rimless maybe EA Aquascaper 600 or 900
Lighting: love the look of kessils but unsure on what ones run best for the best price!
Co2 Reg&solenoid: Co2 Art
Filter: Unknown as will want to run clear tubing and Aquascaper skimmer
Heater: just a usual heater haven’t looked into inline heaters!
Substrate: Akadama! Read a lot about this how it competes with the best there is and the price is outstanding compared! Not capped I like the uncapped look! But then I love the look of smaller “pellets” and darker more black looking substrates!
Should I put ferts in the substrates? Powders etc?

Anything I’ve missed out please feel free and please leave you’re suggestions as I’m going to journal the whole idea that you guys help with! Abit of a “we’ll build it together” as I’m new to Aquascaping only keep fish and Anubias! Hahah!
Cheers guys!
 
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Yeah this is the right place to be buddy. Starting a journal right from the off is the best option, if other people can follow the progress it gives lots of clues as to what might be right or wrong. More details and pictures the better.

Firstly nice tank. Not sure on kessils, always been out of my price point if I'm honest but light is light I guess. Ideally you just want the option od being able to dim them. Nothing wrong with the reg, lot of people here use them with as far as I can make out no issues. Any filter will run the the Aquascaper skimmer, they are all either 12mm or 17mm so just get whichever suits your filter, I'm guessing on a tank that big will be 17mm. Nothing wrong with a normal heater as long as you don't mind seeing it in the tank, plants will soon hide it though. Lot of people use external heaters so they can't see it but depending on the size of the cabinet can be a pain getting the pipes bending in the right place. I don't know much about substrates but look at the UKAPS articles page, there's a good description of many of the commonly used ones on there. Some under gravel and some standalone, comes down to how you want your substrate to look I guess.
 
Should I put ferts in the substrates? Powders etc?

Depending on the substrate you buy. Generally speaking, if you buy a substrate specifically designed for planted tanks like Dennerle, Tropica or ADA they tend to operate in one or two ways or both. They are usually made material that either has fertiliser already impregnated in it so when you first start the tank they release these ferts including Ammonia so a new tank will cycle quicker and plants get off to a good start. Or they will be made of material that has what the call a high CEC value. This means that they have the ability to absorb and store nutrients. Some have both these abilities, most of them probably.

Plants tend to take up most of their nutrients through leaves that are in the water although some do appreciate having a nutritious substrate layer. The benefit of the substrates that absorb nutrients is any excess you dose in the water can be soaked up by the substrate and made available to plants should there not be enough in the water. Regardless of whether you put the ferts in using tabs in the substrate or just dose in the water they will both become available when the plants need it.
 
Yeah this is the right place to be buddy. Starting a journal right from the off is the best option, if other people can follow the progress it gives lots of clues as to what might be right or wrong. More details and pictures the better.

Firstly nice tank. Not sure on kessils, always been out of my price point if I'm honest but light is light I guess. Ideally you just want the option od being able to dim them. Nothing wrong with the reg, lot of people here use them with as far as I can make out no issues. Any filter will run the the Aquascaper skimmer, they are all either 12mm or 17mm so just get whichever suits your filter, I'm guessing on a tank that big will be 17mm. Nothing wrong with a normal heater as long as you don't mind seeing it in the tank, plants will soon hide it though. Lot of people use external heaters so they can't see it but depending on the size of the cabinet can be a pain getting the pipes bending in the right place. I don't know much about substrates but look at the UKAPS articles page, there's a good description of many of the commonly used ones on there. Some under gravel and some standalone, comes down to how you want your substrate to look I guess.
brilliant cheers mate
 
Depending on the substrate you buy. Generally speaking, if you buy a substrate specifically designed for planted tanks like Dennerle, Tropica or ADA they tend to operate in one or two ways or both. They are usually made material that either has fertiliser already impregnated in it so when you first start the tank they release these ferts including Ammonia so a new tank will cycle quicker and plants get off to a good start. Or they will be made of material that has what the call a high CEC value. This means that they have the ability to absorb and store nutrients. Some have both these abilities, most of them probably.

Plants tend to take up most of their nutrients through leaves that are in the water although some do appreciate having a nutritious substrate layer. The benefit of the substrates that absorb nutrients is any excess you dose in the water can be soaked up by the substrate and made available to plants should there not be enough in the water. Regardless of whether you put the ferts in using tabs in the substrate or just dose in the water they will both become available when the plants need it.
I really think I’m going to go with akadama to absorb the nutrients?
 
Here's some interesting reading for you The cheapest substrate I have used is Tescos cat litter fine which is clay based and high cec value. Works well in my low tech tanks albeit a slightly red colouration although I tend to stick to Tropica Soils in my high tech stuff.
 
Here's some interesting reading for you The cheapest substrate I have used is Tescos cat litter fine which is clay based and high cec value. Works well in my low tech tanks albeit a slightly red colouration although I tend to stick to Tropica Soils in my high tech stuff.
I’ve read a lot about brought substrates changing PH levels? Just want an all round substrate that won’t mess with levels and has the best nutrients! Which maybe worth going the akadama route so I know it’s a good substrate and I know the ferts going in? Maybe start with George’s own brand and move onto my own once I’m confident?
 
A lot of the mainstream soils do lower ph although this is negligible IMO, depends how your water is to start with. If you live in a hard, alkaline tapwater area and intend on using tap water for changes then it's not such a bad thing. You are going to be lowering your ph by injecting co2 anyway. I find these ph lowering properties tend to wear off quite quickly as well depending on the hardness of your water. Sorry, I'm not over familiar with Akadama, from what I understand it's just a clay based, high cec medium. Someone with more experience with it could maybe comment on that.

Maybe start with George’s own brand and move onto my own once I’m confident?

I'm assuming you mean @George Farmer if so didn't realise he had his own brand. I follow most of his stuff and never seen him use his "own brand" before, always someone else's so I would check that out. Maybe he's reviewed certain ones which he tested and thought was good but I don't think he's involved in it. George is the poster boy for many products, I know he works closely with aquarium gardens and Aquascaper helping to develop their products but what that financial arrangement is I don't know. To be fair he has always gave honest reviews of anyone's products and if there's something he doesn't like he will say, equally he will big up products even if they are in direct competition with a brand that he is involved in. That way I think you could say he is a free lance aquascaper the gets a few freebies to test ;) Ironically, even if he did have a brand on the market I would assume he can't even come into his own forum and recommend it because of forum rules of not being financially involved with products. This place is just for hobbyists sharing experiences, the sponsors are something different, they pay for the privilege of being here and I don't see George on there which would be the natural place to showcase his goods.

If someone is claiming to be George's own brand I would let him know.
 
I meant as in the poster boy for the aquascaper range? Surely it’s good stuff other he wouldn’t have his name next to it? Not really read up on much fertilisers!!
 
Just to add, if someone is from a company and sneaks in here under the guise of a hobbyist and tries to claim a certain product is far superior to another they best be prepared to do some serious heavy lifting and bring with it a lot of scientific data that backs their claims beyond any reasonable doubt. Believe me there's folks in here that will blow them out the water :D
 
I meant as in the poster boy for the aquascaper range? Surely it’s good stuff other he wouldn’t have his name next to it? Not really read up on much fertilisers!!

Yeah, for sure, other products are available and equally as good which George will testify to as well. Aquascaper wants advice on what works best for planted tank keepers so they can sell their products to us, who best to ask than George a well known pro Aquascaper with lots of people who follow his work. Get a recommendation from George and already you've got a lot of willing customers waiting to buy and George being known for honest reviews it's a win win situation for everyone involved. Most of us struggle to find the time to run one high tech tank so Imagine what George needs to be doing keeping on top of customers tanks and doing his online presence. Probably a struggle to do that and make a living so he has the enviable job of dedicating that much time to his hobby he needs to make a living from it.

AFAIK though he doen't have any products, basically George is the product.
 
Yeah, for sure, other products are available and equally as good which George will testify to as well. Aquascaper wants advice on what works best for planted tank keepers so they can sell their products to us, who best to ask than George a well known pro Aquascaper with lots of people who follow his work. Get a recommendation from George and already you've got a lot of willing customers waiting to buy and George being known for honest reviews it's a win win situation for everyone involved. Most of us struggle to find the time to run one high tech tank so Imagine what George needs to be doing keeping on top of customers tanks and doing his online presence. Probably a struggle to do that and make a living so he has the enviable job of dedicating that much time to his hobby he needs to make a living from it.

AFAIK though he doen't have any products, basically George is the product.
I’m going to have a scroll through I think and look to see if I can find anything through the forum about all in one ferts! I’m such a noob
 
George helped develop the EA brand fertiliser with his experience and using of many fertiliser brands in set ups so hes not exactly the poster boy . I will probably use it in the future as not many all in one fertilisers can be used for low tech,high tech
 
so hes not exactly the poster boy

Agreed but you know what I mean. On their website they have George recommending it, EA could have quite as easily just made it and sent some to George and let him tell the world he was getting good results using it but they opted for having his face plastered about it as much as possible hence why I say "poster boy" Helluva commercial decision with access to George's many followers, I have no problem with that and it does serve a purpose for people who don't yet understand what's in the bottle, George adds validity to their claims however ferts alone won't create a scape like George's if other parameters aren't on point. I also have some David Beckham after shave at home, I'm guessing David had very little to do with the manufacturer of that either ;):D And it works, my missus bought me the after shave based on Beckhams name on the bottle and @Looneeyy is contemplating buying these ferts without knowing what's in the bottle either because George's face appeared on there.

For sure this serves a purpose. I f you don't know about ferts this is a perfect solution for the end user which has been tried and tested by someone who knows what he's talking about :thumbup:

The flip side of this is that George has also done many great planted tanks before this product came out so what makes it stand out other than George, a nice box and some branding. Just my thoughts.

Coming back to the OP....

I’m going to have a scroll through I think and look to see if I can find anything through the forum about all in one ferts! I’m such a noob

Ferts look extremely complicated at first glance but are actually the simplest of all the other things you need to take care of especially if dosing co2. It all depends on what you want from your planted tank, it wouldn't do any harm to read the EI Guide to get some sort of an understanding of what's required. Going off the shopping list you have with co2 and Kessil lighting my guess is you intend to go down the high tech road which isn't always the best place to start with no understanding of what this entails. The path is fraught with problems just waiting for something to go wrong, it's a fine line to be walking. That said, go for it, there's plenty of people here who will steer you down the right path.

Ferts also comes down to how much hassle you want and the ££££ you're prepared to spend. Basically it breaks down a little like this, the more lighting you have and co2 injection the more ferts the plants will require to feed this growth, your options will be...

Dry salts, by far the cheapest option especially if you get the 900 but the hassle of working out the quants (which is done for you already actually if you read the guide I linked and on the salts themselves)

Dry salts all in one, same as above but the salts are premixed for you removing the hassle factor but still very cost effective.

Commercial brands, fire and forget, put in the tank whatever it says and happy days. That's the market AE is filling. The only down side to this is they can work out expensive as you mainly pay for the packaging, 99% water and George's face :D They also are generally weaker than mixing salt so you tend to have to dose more than recommended with high lighting and co2

The choice is yours really and wherever you feel comfortable. Just keep in mind though light will drive the fert demand. If you do get the Kessil lights these are dimmable so there's no reason why you couldn't buy all the stuff on your list, keeps the lights down low and use AE ferts to keep things nice and simple. Pick plants that aren't too demanding and maybe start cranking things up later as you gain more experience of what's going on.

Most importantly is to enjoy the hobby, we would all love to have tanks like George's but it's took a long time to master the art. Just buying products that other people recommend or have is no guarantee of success and neither is the price point. I've seen many thousands of pound worth of ADA equipment in here that's gone tits up and the owner had got sickened by the whole experience. I'm by no means an expert btw, just a hobbyist who enjoys the hobby which is why George's face is next to the bottle and not mine :D

Good luck with the tank, I look forward to see this get going and don't forget to keep us updated.
 
@AverageWhiteBloke i really appreciate you’re time discussing the ferts further!
reading what you are saying makes a lot more sense! It’s like buying anything it’s a branded name so will cost alotttt more! I’m really liking the twinstar, I think they look a lot more professional sat on top as the tank would be against the wall so it might be difficult fit with the light bar on the side! money is of course the issue for everything in this hobby!
That’s why it’s amazing you guys help and pass on experience!

If you know of any links to “all in one dry ferts” for dosing by all means I’d love a read or to look into buying them especially if they’re cheaper!

I looked at the substrate aswell when we spoke about using a cheaper option of akadama, and crushed clay balls maybe! With tropica plant growth substrate underneath! unless I decide I’m just going to go all out and spend a fortune on big brand substrate for the lot!
 
This is an excellent place to start. One kit mix, add to tank, job done.
http://www.aquariumplantfood.co.uk/fertilisers/dry-chemicals/starter-kits/ei-starter-kit.html

If you can't be a*sed to dose daily then I built this. You can obviously buy commercial dosers, but they are not so much fun and configurable as DIY.
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/diy-dual-peristaltic-dosing-pump-with-alternate-switching.22332/

Which I used for many years, just being controlled by a standard B&Q timer. Just set time to dose Mon, Tue, Wed, Thu, Fri and Sat and just doses on alternate days macro & micro. Done.
 
i really appreciate you’re time discussing the ferts further!

No problem, that's why we're here :) Ironically the link I posted earlier has a video by George describing how the EA stuff works and plant needs which is quite informative and well worth watching.

As Ian points out though you can buy everything that's in that bottle as dry salts and mix your own which works out at £1.16 per bottle and makes 16x500ml bottles. The 500ml EA stuff works out at £12.95 per bottle ex delivery and based on 5ml per 50 ltrs per day dosing in a high energy tanks would last you 25 days at 20ml per day dosing in the EA900 tank.
Up to you whether you want the hassle of making your own and what that's worth to you.

Only thing you need to remember is the trace elements go into a separate bottle to the macro elements because the iron in the traces can react with the phosphate so people tend to mix a bottle of each and dose one or the other on alternate days. there are recipes so that you can chuck them all into one bottle if that makes life easier using E300 Ascorbic Acid, the phosphate and iron don't tend to react when kept in acidic conditions.

The EA stuff is all the salts you see listed plus something to stop them reacting in a nice bottle that you can just chuck a cap of in every morning. Some people are prepared to pay for that convenience.
 
No problem, that's why we're here :) Ironically the link I posted earlier has a video by George describing how the EA stuff works and plant needs which is quite informative and well worth watching.

As Ian points out though you can buy everything that's in that bottle as dry salts and mix your own which works out at £1.16 per bottle and makes 16x500ml bottles. The 500ml EA stuff works out at £12.95 per bottle ex delivery and based on 5ml per 50 ltrs per day dosing in a high energy tanks would last you 25 days at 20ml per day dosing in the EA900 tank.
Up to you whether you want the hassle of making your own and what that's worth to you.

Only thing you need to remember is the trace elements go into a separate bottle to the macro elements because the iron in the traces can react with the phosphate so people tend to mix a bottle of each and dose one or the other on alternate days. there are recipes so that you can chuck them all into one bottle if that makes life easier using E300 Ascorbic Acid, the phosphate and iron don't tend to react when kept in acidic conditions.

The EA stuff is all the salts you see listed plus something to stop them reacting in a nice bottle that you can just chuck a cap of in every morning. Some people are prepared to pay for that convenience.
Looked and it seems very easy now! Just need to find substrate and lights!
Kessils and Twinstars are amazing but god damn expensive!! Everything is sorted just those two now! Oh the joys! Hahah
 
Hinterfield on of our sponsors have some reasonably priced lighting. have you look at them? They currently also stock a programmable timer for doing sunset and sunrise settings that a few people are reviewing in the forum at the moment. Last I read they were working well. A lot of Aquascaping equipment can be as expensive or as cheap as you want it to be. Obviously there are brands to avoid, you pay cheap you pay twice at times. I got a cheap air pump once and couldn't hear my self think over the noise, ended up buying an eheim one and the sound of the bubbles in the water are noisier than the pump.

Good thing about this forum is people will have bought most of the equipment out there and gave their opinion on it so you tend to find out what's good and what's not. Now you've found out ferts are ferts whatever bottle they come in and light is light so it comes down to how it looks on the tank. The majority of mid range led's are more than bright enough for the hobby in fact you'll find a few people dimming them down. Next will be filter media :D there's your Carlos Fandango brands claiming to perform miracles, in a planted tank you don't really need fancy filter material, the plants are the filter so people tend to use simple sponges etc that don't clog up to easy and don't over fill the canister. You want to get max flow out the canister really, flow is more important than the media in it.
 
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