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First Planted Tank - 180L
- Thread starter Nubias
- Start date
Barbara Turner
Member
Cool, sounds like you have it all in hand. Only real way to speed it up is get hold of some used filter media. It will get there soon enough.
Next one to worry about / research will be brown algae / diatoms.
Next one to worry about / research will be brown algae / diatoms.
Nubias
Member
Still no nitrites registering, wondering if the low ph is stalling things. Ammonia 1-2ppm and nitrate 5-10ppm. I am away for a week so hopefully around day 30 should see some progress and maybe time for a first trim. Also added hydrocotyle tripartita under left hand wood.
Edvet
Member
Just a quick remark, watch out with your flow. You can't "bounce "flow of each other, let the flow of your filter and skimmer enhance each other.
Nubias
Member
Thanks Ed,
That was the intention with placement there, the stock internal angles towards the front so was trying for a little boost to get a clockwise circulation whilst keeping surface clean. It’s on its lowest flow setting, in hindsight flow is hard to control with that internal but I kind of new that already when I bought the tank.
That was the intention with placement there, the stock internal angles towards the front so was trying for a little boost to get a clockwise circulation whilst keeping surface clean. It’s on its lowest flow setting, in hindsight flow is hard to control with that internal but I kind of new that already when I bought the tank.
Barbara Turner
Member
I doubt your anywhere near the recommended 10x tank volume through the filter per hour.
I can see what your trying to do bouncing the flow off the front glass, setting up two circulation patterns the main one on the left, a smaller in the right front corner.
You can see where your dead spots are where all the muck builds up.
If it works for you great, if you start having problems I would swap the output on the filter to something straight and bring the skimmer to the front. Trying to setup a big anticlockwise loop.
I can see what your trying to do bouncing the flow off the front glass, setting up two circulation patterns the main one on the left, a smaller in the right front corner.
You can see where your dead spots are where all the muck builds up.
If it works for you great, if you start having problems I would swap the output on the filter to something straight and bring the skimmer to the front. Trying to setup a big anticlockwise loop.
SolarPear
Member
Hi Nubias
I was thinking about purchasing that surface skimmer. Whats your review on it thus far and is it noisy?
Nubias
Member
Thanks Barbara,
Was also planning on upgrading the internal pump to the 1000lph version to increase turn over. Still doesn’t get me anywhere near 10x but maybe a worthwhile cheap upgrade.
Solar Pear,
The skimmer is probably one of the best bang for buck aquarium hardware items out there. I decided there was probably a reason it was used in a lot of the Green Aqua show tanks along with a lot at my local stores. On its lowest flow setting it’s very quiet. Makes a little bit of noise if you have it set on max as it sucks a bit of air also and puts out micro bubbles also.
Keeps surface nice and clean too
Was also planning on upgrading the internal pump to the 1000lph version to increase turn over. Still doesn’t get me anywhere near 10x but maybe a worthwhile cheap upgrade.
Solar Pear,
The skimmer is probably one of the best bang for buck aquarium hardware items out there. I decided there was probably a reason it was used in a lot of the Green Aqua show tanks along with a lot at my local stores. On its lowest flow setting it’s very quiet. Makes a little bit of noise if you have it set on max as it sucks a bit of air also and puts out micro bubbles also.
Keeps surface nice and clean too
Nubias
Member
Starting to get a few snails that have some from some plants. I think I have identified them correctly as tadpole snails..... hmmmmm
Hi all,
If you have a tank without plants you need the filter to be "cycled", because you are reliant on it for nitrification, but if you have plant/microbe filtration you don't have a single point of failure (the filter) and you have much greater biological filtration capacity. Basically as the plants grow in they produce an environment that nurtures a diverse and resilient microbial community.
It is a long thread, but <"Bacteria/biological starters"> covers this subject in some detail. The main reason we know more is that new techniques for identifying nitrifying organisms (RNA and DNA analysis) has shown that the microbial communities you get under high ammonia loading are very different from the the ones you get in aquarium biofilters, and that Archaea are much more important than we realized.
There is a good/Blog article at AquariumKids <"Archaea in Aquaria: Tiny Organisms, Huge Discovery">.
You can see Dr Tim Hovanec's more recent comments in this aricle <"Bacteria Revealed">.
cheers Darrel
I also like to have fully matured tanks before I add any livestock, but you don't actually ever need to add any ammonia to a planted tank.
If you have a tank without plants you need the filter to be "cycled", because you are reliant on it for nitrification, but if you have plant/microbe filtration you don't have a single point of failure (the filter) and you have much greater biological filtration capacity. Basically as the plants grow in they produce an environment that nurtures a diverse and resilient microbial community.
It is a long thread, but <"Bacteria/biological starters"> covers this subject in some detail. The main reason we know more is that new techniques for identifying nitrifying organisms (RNA and DNA analysis) has shown that the microbial communities you get under high ammonia loading are very different from the the ones you get in aquarium biofilters, and that Archaea are much more important than we realized.
There is a good/Blog article at AquariumKids <"Archaea in Aquaria: Tiny Organisms, Huge Discovery">.
You can see Dr Tim Hovanec's more recent comments in this aricle <"Bacteria Revealed">.
cheers Darrel
Barbara Turner
Member
Hi Darrell
I've just read through the links, makes a interesting read, I can't see where you get the conclusion.
Plants aren't going to provide a source of ammonia, be great if they did save a fortune on EI chemicals.
To perform his second tests to evaluate cycling he actually doses the tanks with ammonium chloride
"tanks dosed with ammonium chloride"
I think most the people on here know that products that claim to improve cycle time have very marginal benefits, I read somewhere the gel products are the best of a bad bunch.
The bacteria Nitrospira that we all need in our tank is found through out our tanks.
I've just read through the links, makes a interesting read, I can't see where you get the conclusion.
Plants aren't going to provide a source of ammonia, be great if they did save a fortune on EI chemicals.
To perform his second tests to evaluate cycling he actually doses the tanks with ammonium chloride
"tanks dosed with ammonium chloride"
I think most the people on here know that products that claim to improve cycle time have very marginal benefits, I read somewhere the gel products are the best of a bad bunch.
The bacteria Nitrospira that we all need in our tank is found through out our tanks.
Hi all,
Low ammonia loadings encourage the formation of a diverse microbial assemblage, and it is this diversity that produces a resilient and flexible response to fluctuating nutrient levels, basically you haven't put all your eggs in one basket. There are links to some references in this thread <"Siporax vs.......">.
The prime metric in nitrification isn't actually the ammonia concentration, it is the dissolved oxygen level. As you have water with greater amounts of organic pollution its Biochemical Oxygen Demand (BOD) increases, BOD values range from clean water at below 5 mg/l dissolved oxygen up to about 600 mg/L in raw sewage. Water is fully saturated with oxygen at about 10 mg/L, so you can see that you would need to continually add oxygen for nitrification to occur. Sewage works do this via the <"Activated Sludge"> process (below).
Photo by John Rostron, CC BY-SA 2.0, <https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=14228830>
<"Plant/microbe filtration"> is much more effective than microbe only filtration, and can deal with huge bioloads. The plants take up all forms of fixed nitrogen (including ammonia), are net oxygen producers and provide a much larger area for nitrification to occur in the substrate.
cheers Darrel
Yes that is really the point, plants deplete ammonia and you don't need to add ammonia to cycle the tank, because you are never solely reliant on the microbial filtration in the filter, and you will never again have ammonia levels anything like as high as the amount you've added.
Low ammonia loadings encourage the formation of a diverse microbial assemblage, and it is this diversity that produces a resilient and flexible response to fluctuating nutrient levels, basically you haven't put all your eggs in one basket. There are links to some references in this thread <"Siporax vs.......">.
Yes these aren't planted tanks, so are reliant on microbial filtration, he talks about planted tanks in this article, <"Aquatic plants......"> it is from 1997, so that it pre-dates the use of DNA libraries.
The prime metric in nitrification isn't actually the ammonia concentration, it is the dissolved oxygen level. As you have water with greater amounts of organic pollution its Biochemical Oxygen Demand (BOD) increases, BOD values range from clean water at below 5 mg/l dissolved oxygen up to about 600 mg/L in raw sewage. Water is fully saturated with oxygen at about 10 mg/L, so you can see that you would need to continually add oxygen for nitrification to occur. Sewage works do this via the <"Activated Sludge"> process (below).
Photo by John Rostron, CC BY-SA 2.0, <https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=14228830>
<"Plant/microbe filtration"> is much more effective than microbe only filtration, and can deal with huge bioloads. The plants take up all forms of fixed nitrogen (including ammonia), are net oxygen producers and provide a much larger area for nitrification to occur in the substrate.
cheers Darrel
Grant Binnie
Member
Really good looking tank. Great use of rocks and wood. This has made me even more keen to get my tank and start aquascaping. Good work!
Nubias
Member
So cycle completed around day 40. Today I picked up a couple of full size bunches of hygrophila and what was sold as narrow ludwigia (however I think it’s actually repens or a cross with repens? Thoughts?) as I wanted instant height towards the right hand side of the tank. Also school of black neons added and some Caridina Longirostris.
Plan for panda corydoras for bottom level, what other livestock should I look at? Prefer a deeper body tetra or other South American fish.
Plan for panda corydoras for bottom level, what other livestock should I look at? Prefer a deeper body tetra or other South American fish.
Matt @ ScapeEasy
Member
Not sure of your water hardness but some deep bodied tetra include; lemon, x-ray, rosy, red/black phantom, flame, diamond, serpae tetra. You have essentially black and white fish so far so you need to decide if you want to continue that theme or not. You should think about the upper level too, maybe hatchetfish or pencil fish. Maybe also a dwarf cichlid as a centrepiece fish if your going South American. Also maybe otos for algae/diatom control?
Barbara Turner
Member
Don't be into much of a rush to add fish too fast, or you will still get some nasty spikes in ammonia.
Nerite Snails are also effective for reducing algae.
If you decide to add cherry shrimps they do a great job at cleaning but it does limit what you can add fish wise.
I recently added 8 dwarf neon rainbow fish and have been very impressed.
Nerite Snails are also effective for reducing algae.
If you decide to add cherry shrimps they do a great job at cleaning but it does limit what you can add fish wise.
I recently added 8 dwarf neon rainbow fish and have been very impressed.
Nubias
Member
Update,
Bit of a trim last week, added a larger anubias and changed to Aquascaper complete fertilizer daily dosing 4mm. Rotala is responding really well to the aquascaper fertz.
Still battling algae, have covered about 30% of both led tubes so may increase to 40-50% if things don’t improve soon. Ended up splitting some flexi conduit 3 pieces 90mm long at various points along each tube. Mainly green thread/hair type but have some bba appearing too. Photos don’t do the algae justice lol.
Also added diamond tetras and some cherry shrimp.
Bit of a trim last week, added a larger anubias and changed to Aquascaper complete fertilizer daily dosing 4mm. Rotala is responding really well to the aquascaper fertz.
Still battling algae, have covered about 30% of both led tubes so may increase to 40-50% if things don’t improve soon. Ended up splitting some flexi conduit 3 pieces 90mm long at various points along each tube. Mainly green thread/hair type but have some bba appearing too. Photos don’t do the algae justice lol.
Also added diamond tetras and some cherry shrimp.
Barbara Turner
Member
Floating plants like duck weed are the other easy way to cut down light. Can just be a bit of a pain to get rid of.
I found filling a stringe with seachem flourish and spraying the algae that I couldn't clean off pretty effective. Once dead the shrimps do a pretty good job of cleaning it off.
Keep up the battle, as the plants get larger and better established it gets easier.
I found filling a stringe with seachem flourish and spraying the algae that I couldn't clean off pretty effective. Once dead the shrimps do a pretty good job of cleaning it off.
Keep up the battle, as the plants get larger and better established it gets easier.
Nubias
Member
Bit of a trim and tidy up, algae control getting easier with less light.
