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My Juwel LED Lumen Count

Barbara Turner said:
I'll second what everyone else has said..
Don't rush to fast to buy a new light, especially while the tank is establish and settling down. There is very little you can't grow with lower light levels if you get your co2 distribution/ flow and ferts right.
It might just grow a little slower but you will have far fewer problems.
Upgrade in a few months time when your algae free.

Ps the juwel Rio light units are bonded together, I tried to upgrade a broken one and it was virtually impossible to get into with out cracking the case / hood.
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Thanks Barbra.

I'm expecting some diatom algae and fungus on any wood I drop in there but I don't think I'll be doing anything that could induce algae growth. But I'm a Londoner and our water source is a nightmare on the best of days. Oh and as for ferts, I'll be starting of with a premixed TNC. I'm not sure which one just yet (with or without Phos and Nitrate) because I haven't tested my Phos yet. Nitrates are at 5ppm according to the API test kit. I'll get back into a mixing up my own EI soo enough.

Millns84 said:
45cm internal width. It certainly dwarfs my Sunsun 704b's which are huge canisters!
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I really appreciate you measuring the cabinet/stands internal width. That helps a bunch. The FX6's Dimensions (L x W x H): 40 x 40 x 53 cm so I should be "ok."
 
SolarPear said:
I really appreciate you measuring the cabinet/stands internal width. That helps a bunch. The FX6's Dimensions (L x W x H): 40 x 40 x 53 cm so I should be "ok."
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Yes the FX6 should definitely fit no problem.

The reason I didn't go with the FX6 was that I wasn't sure whether the larger hoses would fit in the cut outs on the back of the tank. Also, I prefer to use spray bars and you've got to DIY them for the FX6.
 
Millns84 said:
Have you already bought the Fx6?

If the hoses don't fit you could always cut some small holes in the lid so it can close properly.
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I believe the hose will fit into the cut out but the filter comes with this connector

41FR4g8Jp2L.jpg

So I'm not exactly sure. I haven't bought the filter yet because I need to be home to collect it and my weekends are busy. I don't fancy lugging it home from work.
 
Below is the inlet/outlet cutout for a Vision 180 with 16/22mm piping from JBL1501 external filter. As you can see only big enough for this sized piping.
upload_2018-8-3_10-24-31.png


You need to see of the cutouts on the Rio450 are any bigger, especially if you intend to use an FX6.
 
Back to the drawing board :(

I thought the replacement led were £90 per tube and although it would have been a stretch I would have bought two just to put my mind at ease and be in the medium light category. However Each tube for my size tank is £230 making the total spend over £460 minimum and I can't afford or justify a spend of £460 on two lights to my wife. At least, not after spending too much just to get to this point.

And so I'm thinking perhaps I can find a way to fit this onto the existing juwel unit.
http://www.interpet.co.uk/Products/Lighting/LEDs/Tri-Spec-High-Output-LED-116-124cm

But they don't have a lumen count just the "50% better than T5HO" marketing jargon. This is how they'd fit.


5e16-5f3a-4db5-a575-4a9c762519a7.png._CB279548678_.png


I'm also considering Arcadia but again, there is no Lumen count with any of the marketing they put out so I'm kinda stuck. My goal was to not be in the low light category, I didn't think it'd be this complex.

ian_m said:
Below is the inlet/outlet cutout for a Vision 180 with 16/22mm piping from JBL1501 external filter. As you can see only big enough for this sized piping.
View attachment 116938

You need to see of the cutouts on the Rio450 are any bigger, especially if you intend to use an FX6.
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I believe the 450 can accommodate the FX tubing although I may have to sacrifice the brace posted above and instead, use more suction cups to keep the inlet and spray bar in place
 
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I have really been struggling to accept the planting parameters of a low light tank. And so I've gone back to a light unit Ian mentioned earlier.

ian_m said:
https://www.iquaticsonline.co.uk/
I think the 120cm Iquatics 4 T5 tube unit will fit the Rio450 (I think) giving 12,000 lumens for 4 off 3000 lumen T5 tubes.
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Does anyone know if this unit accepts Juwel's led tubes? If not what are the options that could be available outside of iquatics stock lighting options that would put me within the medium light range?
 
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:) I often wonder how Lumens in LED fixtures are realy determined.. Because if i look at the whole salers data that provides the strip they only give Lumen data per (led) chip. Or per single LED if it concerns HP leds. But most aqaurium fixtures i've yet seen are SMD led. These excact same strips can be bought as single strip and the wholesaler states the factory data again per chip never per strip total. Say 65 lumen per led. And 1 metre strip contains 72 leds.

Is the total lumen equal to 65 x 72 = 4680 lumen? Does that mean if my fixture contains 2,5 metre total that i have 2,5 x 4680 = 11700 lumen?
I realy have no idea that's all i have..

How does the fixture manufacturer/assambler determine their products end performance?. Do they use the LED factory data per chip and add it all up like above to give us a number. Or do they actualy have a test device to accurately come up with lumen specs? If so than why not come with PAR, than they would come with something usefull. Because an aqaurium light assambler should know by now, that lumen doesnt do much for the fanatic plant nerd, they want to know PAR performance. Than why buy and use a lumen test device and give us data we don't realy want?.

I find that suspicious.. I hunges me towards the thought.. They just give us the added sum per chip, nobody can check it accurately with household equipment anyway.

I've noticed with cob led fixture, the LED used has a factory spec of 10 watts and 900 lumen.. And the fixture with driver in it and all states the same specs. Than i hook it to a measuring device and its performance is 20% less than stated. The driver has a build in rectifier that looses 20% power. Thus the LED is indeed 10 watt, but it uses and delivers only 8 watt. Obviously the assambler selling the fixture didn't test it, puts the led factory specs on the box and ignores the power loss from the driver. Thus it never ever can be 900 lumen at 8 watt consumption. When i bridge the rectifier it burns brighter..

We are taken for a ride here.. :)
 
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I think you're right, Marcel. I imagine they just multiply up to get the most impressive sounding specs to sell more lights to people who are not "fanatic plant nerds". There are more of them than there are of us. :)
Yes, the way the individual LEDs are wired, driven, controlled etc makes a difference to the output. Also the way the light from adjacent LEDs interacts, and how it interacts with the fixture.
We know that filters usually give about half the theoretical throughput in real life situations. Similar with LEDs; what an LED produces in the manufacturer's lab does not tell us what will come out of the fixture it is built into by another manufacturer.
 
sparkyweasel said:
what an LED produces in the manufacturer's lab does not tell us what will come out of the fixture it is built into by another manufacturer.
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Indeed, obviously not.. In case of that cob led they simply gave the factory specs. 10 watt, 900 lumen at AC/DC 12-24 volt.. Than i screwed it open look at the serial searched for the cob only. And it was actualy a 14 volt - 350mA, 10 watt, 900 lumen. Thus in reality they assambled it with even less specs driven at 12 volt with still 20% loss from the rectifier. Because i run it on DC i didn't need the rectifier, so i bridged the driver and ramped the voltage up to 14 and it burned significantly brichter.. :)

And the funny thing is you can't say they sold you a lie. It is acording the factory a 10 watt - 900 lumen led but it just doesn't run full power the way they assambled it.
 
I still feel there is a market for PAR meters, priced "friendly", by large companies like Dennerle or Eheim. In this way everybody could work with real PAR data, and succes rates would rise and "cow manure " claims would loose ground
 
Edvet said:
Yeah i've seen the DIY PAR meters builds.
It's just that i think it could be done commercially, on a larger and cheaper scale, by the big firms.
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Than we should all send an email to Dennerle@info and ask all friends and family to do the same.. With the question.. Do you also have a PAR meter in your collection? If so where to buy?. They might wake up after replying 10.000 emails with " No Sorry we don't." :cool:

Kinda reminds me of that joke about the Rabbit going to the bakery everyday asking for Carrot Cake.. What the baker doesnt make..
 
If we had PAR meters, we could buy lights, find out they're not suitable, buy more and try again. If the light manufacturers would simply give the PAR figures instead of the meaningless information and weasel words, we could just buy an appropriate light first time.
 
sparkyweasel said:
If we had PAR meters, we could buy lights, find out they're not suitable, buy more and try again. If the light manufacturers would simply give the PAR figures instead of the meaningless information and weasel words, we could just buy an appropriate light first time.
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A lot of manufacturers put a ton of info out there except the type we need. Navigating this process without such data is a potential minefield in expense.
 
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