• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

TMC Sig 600 Twinstar 600s Sump build

Joined
27 Apr 2016
Messages
355
Location
Devon
Hi guys

Started this off emersed with Cuba and mosses in pots to transfer to the branches and trim and flood soon. Sand is half the bottom substrate and Amazonia and Powersand with Cuba the rest. Minerals added to the power sand too.

Waiting for co2 valves to arrive then will add them to NEOs in and overdose for a while and then start on EI after two weeks.

Using a sump so if anybody has experience with overflows and how to stop them dragging air through that would be awesome. I can’t seem to get the tank level with the overflow box as the water always ‘falls’ in it even after tweaking the tap and valve.

Some Stayrogen Repens in there too and Crypts, and Rotala Macrandra at the back looking dry but shooting.

Waiting to flood to add java fern and some Buce!

Feedback or tips very welcome.

Cheers guys

8bdef4ea2d68165ba77734b28c000fcc.jpg


60ac2e4a012b1b7195990699f81d94ee.jpg


99dc4216e2774b5d9047c47c7b48fb02.jpg


a624ba87f45701da121b37756b8fb69e.jpg


25fba7ef6c49873742b02bc23e12828a.jpg
Cuba overgrown needs trimming! Very shallow substrate.

Sump
1e6112b83265bfb3e658b83054efc636.jpg


Overflow
ec44232d079547bc20e9822a32517280.jpg


Loads of fern from Ryan - cheers dude!
9b8f0de8fd6c10ee26afd7cb7452ede7.jpg




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
water always ‘falls’ in
This will drive out CO2 very heavily, so be carefull.
Sumps will almost always cause noise. A Bean animal is the most quiet way, Can;t comment on your system, don't see how it functions.
 
It looks like a commercial add on overflow box and not a drilled tank?

It is fox yeah - bought from a guy that makes them on eBay. Same concept as many of the other ones with the aqua pumps on top.

Just felt the level inside the tank should surely be almost he same as that falling into the box?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Has anybody used the Hydor pumps in planted tanks too to add some extra flow? I was thinking of using one over the carpet as the sump and return might not be enough.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I've used Koralia's in my 400 gallon.
Today i would look at Gyre's ( Maxspect).

Cheers Edvet I’ll check them out.

I like the size and footprint of the Hydors being magnetic. I was more concerned they might take in small fish or shrimp as they are purely circulatory.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Have you thought about abandoning the sump idea and opting for a filter? - sumps supposedly lose CO2 at a rate of knots
I've no experience of overflows added at a later date but if you don't have a drilled tank and are having problems with air before you start then maybe look at your options.
Bean animal / herbie style overflows are not possible with your overflow from what I can see.

+1 on the Gyres for moving water; they are great and magnetic also, if you are wanting the electrics out the tank then Vortech MP10 MP40 or similar are the option but there is no directional adjustability to them.
 
Using a sump so if anybody has experience with overflows and how to stop them dragging air through that would be awesome.

Never used the specific overflow you have.. But if i see correctly it's a vacuum overflow you need to prime with the tube on top that has the checkvalve to it?

Then my question is where does it drag air?

Looking at the 6th picture i see a 20mm? flexible tube running into a filter sock.. I guess that tube us connected to the overflow? And assuming the noise comes from that tube?

I suspect that tube is to long and doesn't have the capacity.. It chokes the flow and than accelerates it again creating an erratic flow patern and sometimes an edy in the last overflow compartiment making slurpinga and sucking noise..


:)
 
Hard to explain in words what a picture says in a look.. :)

In diagram
nosound.jpg


That open connection doesn't need to be large 1 mm is enough.. It devides the route in to seperate sections preventing it sucking a vacuum in the fall tube. That fall tube shouldn't be longer than the tanks height. Make that 2nd section of wider diameter from ridgid pvc tube.

If the tube from overflow to sump is of not enough capacity it completely fills with water.. The fall speed in it wil create that sucking slurping edy in the overflow. If you can't connect a larger diameter tube to the overflow. Deviding it in 2 sections as in the diagram is the only option you have.

I hope this explains.. :)

Still could be that you have some noise of running water.. Depends on the turn over you want to force trough one overflow.

Than personal experience told me. deviding this again over 2 smaller overflows in opposite corner of the tank makes it as quite as a mouse. Plus it gives a beter flow patern in the tank with less dead spots since it drains in 2 corners instead of 1.. :thumbup:

here you see that open connection in picture.. I also use vacuum overflows in this tank.
DSC_0403.jpg

Its a 25mm fall tube into a 32mm drain tube to the sump..

Absolutely quite as a mouse.. But i use 2, 1 of these in each corner.

2x
https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/nano-overflow.51607/#post-508353
 
Last edited:
Cheers zozo very in-depth reply haha!

I’ll try and put more up about this on here but you’re right yeah it’s a simple overflow with the prime on the top then it supposedly doesn’t lose prime after as air shouldn’t be trapped in the top.

It’s actually pretty silent already, so apologies if I mislead on that front - but it seems to draw air in the tank side box as the water falls into the compartment - but the outer box always needs to be lower doesn’t it slightly? The one way valve on the top should let the air out but it doesn’t seem to be doing that well at all. I can use an aqua lifter pump on that so not the end of the world, I wanted to fix the drop in overflow level mostly for the co2 loss during any gas off.

The comb that the water flows over is very near the top of the tank which I feel may contribute to the level difference? Should the overflow water line be level on the tank side with the top of the tank almost?

Having to reset the whole thing every time
It needs cleaning and sorting is a bit of a downside I must say.

Circulation pumps look good!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
It’s actually pretty silent already, so apologies if I mislead on that front
Never mind, i always get carried away a little when i read the word sump and jump to conclusions. Mainly i experience sumps and overflows often beeing under rated due to simple gravity contradicting design failures.

but it seems to draw air in the tank side box as the water falls into the compartment - but the outer box always needs to be lower doesn’t it slightly?

A Vacuum bridge works with the principle of communicating vessels


Thus gravirty should always equal out both levels.. In your case i guess the level difference (LD) is only there when the pump is running and the in overflow is situated higher than the out overfllow. Or your turnover is about at its max limit..

NO1.jpg

After the pump stops, level in both vessels are going to be equal and create a water lock.

If the vacuumed chamber is collecting air it might just be a leaking check valve. Simply remove it, vacuum the chamber, fold the tube so it kinks close, take a tie rap or a rubber band to keep it kinked.. Or ask your lady if she still has such a <small parfum test tube> i bet she does or can get them shortly. Than take the cap from this to plug the priming tube with it.
 
Last edited:
Never mind, i always get carried away a little when i read the word sump and jump to conclusions. Mainly i experience sumps and overflows often beeing under rated due to simple gravity contradicting design failures.



A Vacuum bridge works with the principle of communicating vessels


Thus gravirty should always equal out both levels.. In your case i guess the level difference (LD) is only there when the pump is running and the in overflow is situated higher than the out overfllow. Or your turnover is about at its max limit..

View attachment 119753
After the pump stops, level in both vessels are going to be equal and create a water lock.

If the vacuumed chamber is collecting air it might just be a leaking check valve. Simply remove it, vacuum the chamber, fold the tube so it kinks close, take a tie rap or a rubber band to keep it kinked.. Or ask your lady if she still has such a <small parfum test tube> i bet she does or can get them shortly. Than take the cap from this to plug the priming tube with it.


Makes sense Zozo thank you. I’ve taken a video now I’ve flooded it to try and show you what’s going on better. Not sure if the floor and or tank is dead level either which may be affecting the vacuum chamber if it’s not level. Oddly enough too the tube has started making gurgling noises!

I got the overflow from a seller on eBay which makes units branded as deepreef? The guy has not contacted me at all so I’m lost as to how it works - but he supplied the pipe too saying it was correct for the kit? He mentioned adjusting the tap on the tube so the flow is right and then using the valve on the back box to silence it - but the levels seem to change with the valve and tap and I never know how full the inside box needs to be - should I slow the outflow so the inside water level is equal against the overflow box?

I’ve changed the one way valve too Zozo for another one, neither seem to leak as I sucked both and they only worked one way. Source of air is front chamber I think. There is air in the tube now with the valve on it, I can see bubbles going in it. But they seem to be collecting just before the valve.

35f3292f1864553a5cf90b5ea56cf2d8.jpg


It was quiet last time but this time it’s noisey again. I’m not against using a sump but I have some worries now such as having to calibrate the pump and tap every time to be right, loss of co2, worry it will flood if the pump outdoes the outflow capability (only happened once when I was slowing the outflow pipe to try and level the water and t gradually over a few hours was filling the tank by a mm at a time until it overflowed! Oops.

I also fear I need an aqualifter pump to fix the air tapped in the top and ensure siphon start always. I’ve not got a big problem with this if it works? I still fear a pipe being blocked or overflow comb which then could cause a flood. I worry but it’s quite a problem if it happens!

Here’s the video of how it’s working currently. Flow in tank seems good but for Cuba I think I might need more.

Thanks :)

Edit: it’s also much quieter and almost level when I turn down the flow on the tap. Are you saying that with a bigger tube Zozo I could leave the tap as it is? I noticed the water levels are much closer when playing with the tap but it’s impossible to know where the tap needs to be on the outflow pipe as there’s a delay in syncing with the return pump :/


http://sendvid.com/embed/l0yeq3iw


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Last edited:
Tank update:

Flooded now, added java fern and Buce and Crypts, moss on some of the wood as experiment, and constant co2 currently to see how it sits with the sump and ensure the plants are well looked after until they adapt.

I’ve definitely got too much java fern in there as Ryan mentioned - so I will need to take
some out to avoid flow problems and masking the red plants.

Trimmed the HC Cuba and the rest seems ok - going to put the Twinstar 600s on 40% brightness as it’s flooded to avoid causing further distress to the plants. And try to avoid losing my nice Cuba carpet!!

It’s a new flood and new Amazonia - would one WC a week do still at 50%? No livestock yet!

Cheers guys

7953f0b876044b14cd708d2af2b5b3f3.jpg

6121b733c3a342b66a3d2f65544ebb54.jpg
dfbeb485b15eaa76f493644c7f9c9081.jpg
332df2e65894f35eeda6a47354b5e055.jpg

ded87b6f4e74e94ee2d40166e74c0157.jpg



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I would say you would be better with the return pipe same as you have it now but at the front of the tank, That way the flow would hit the far wall travel down where your co2 diffuser is and return across your HC carpet along the bottom. Giving your HC a good supply of co2 enriched water.
 
Back
Top