Hygrophilia polysperma curled / twisted leaves

[gex23]

In the past 7 days, since the last trim, i've noticed the new Hygrophilia polysperma leaves are curled / twisted :

20171225_091527 by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

Specs

-90l tank
- 2 x Radion XR15FW and 1 x Kessil A160 tuna sun (8 hour photoperiod for the Radions, 2 hour midday burst for the Kessil on its lowest intensity)
- Eheim Pro 3e 700 running at approx 1450 LPH
- Pressurised CO2 w/ inline atomiser comes on 2 hours before and goes out an hour before lights, drop checker lime green
- ADA Aquasoil
- TNC complete fertilister
- Liquid Carbon
- Iron supplement

Regime

- 50l water changes twice weekly using tapwater and Seachem Prime
- TNC complete dosed at 10ml daily (3 times the TNC recommended dose for EI levels)
- Liquid Carbon dosed at 5ml daily
- Iron supplement dosed at 1.5ml daily

From what i've read it could be a micronutrient issue rather than macros, i'm surprised at this as I feel i'm dosing way more than enough to cover any nutrient shortage. Also in terms of flow and CO2 hitting the plant, it's in the middle of the tank with plenty of space around it for the microbubbles to travel.

Any thoughts?

 

[gex23]

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

It seems it could be down to :

- Calcium deficiency (doubt this due to using tapwater for waterchanges)
- CO2 shortfall - if you've read my tank journal, this has been a constant issue for me for a few months, but i'm unsure if this is the problem as :
1) The filter is massively overspecced for this tank, running at 80% of its max output at approx 1450lph, any more and it turns the tank into a whirlpool
2) CO2 drop checker is green by lights on, i'm running approx 4bps right now and the atomiser is freshly cleaned
3) If I increase CO2 more, the drop checker verges on green / yellow and certain fish show signs of stress plus I also lose shrimp at this stage.

Further observation seems to show the lower parts of the plant showing new growth aren't curled at all, just the top sections new growth nearest the spraybar which makes me think :

1) Maybe this is CO2 poor as it's the area of strongest flow, so possibly the CO2 bubbles are being taken away from these leaves too quickly for adequate adsorption?
2) Maybe it's down to the fact I do 'too many' water changes? I change 100 litres of water weekly on a 90 litre tank (initially done to rid of algae and have just continued the regime), so the dilution is causing deficiencies?

I hope you can help

 

[gex23]

Here are the specs of the water coming out of my tap :

Alkalinity (average Mg/L) - 138.3
Calcium (average Mg/L) - 61.46
Magnesium (average Mg/L) - 14.90
CaCO3 ppm - 214.8

(I believe the dKH is 7.76?)

 

[Tim Harrison]

Could be any number of things, the obvious is unstable CO2.
But I'd also take a look at the lighting, it seems massively over spec'd for a 60cm tank - perhaps too bright and on too long.
I use one XR15FW on about 60% intensity, over a 60x40x25(h) cm tank. My photoperiod is 6hrs.

The leaves maybe curling over as a strategy to reduce the surface area exposed to light or are simply just being damaged by too much light.
This would fit with your observation that new leaves lower down, where the light intensity is lower or the leaves are shaded, are okay.
If the cause was low or fluctuating CO2 alone the plant would probably loose it's lower leaves as well.

 

[G H Nelson]

Hi Gex
I had a slight issue as you described with Ludwigia sp glandulosa!
This Ludwigia can be a tad tricky to grow Low Tech in hard water!
I have the same lighting unit....so could be a leaf response to too much lighting as Tim stated...
I don't use Co2, but I did reduce the lighting plus remove the said twisted leaves and periodically added Easy Life ProFito...for more Potassium uptake!
This seems to have cured the problem....
Cheers
hoggie

 

[gex23]

Could be any number of things, the obvious is unstable CO2.
But I'd also take a look at the lighting, it seems massively over spec'd for a 60cm tank - perhaps too bright and on too long.
I use one XR15FW on about 60% intensity, over a 60x40x25(h) cm tank. My photoperiod is 6hrs.

The leaves maybe curling over as a strategy to reduce the surface area exposed to light or are simply just being damaged by too much light.
This would fit with your observation that new leaves lower down, where the light intensity is lower or the leaves are shaded, are okay.
If the cause was low or fluctuating CO2 alone the plant would probably loose it's lower leaves as well.

Tim,

Many thanks for the response.

CO2 stability has been an issue for a little while now, however i'm slowly working towards stability with tweaking, knowledge and observation so fingers crossed this can be eliminated as a potential issue in the near future.

Regarding the lighting department, I appreciate that it's stupidly overspecced, but I like high end tech on my tank, especially lighting , my fault I know.

You say you run 60% max intensity at 6 hours photo period, this is the photoperiod I run for the radions right now with the generic 'freshwater planted aquarium' template :

Ecosmartlive by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

I could easily customise the template with a long run in and much lower / gradual intensity for the first and last 2 hours?

The kessil is running the minimum 5% intensity at its warmest setting for just 2 hours a day, though I can decrease this to an hour and day and see if this help (it's staying as I LOVE its shimmer).

 

[gex23]

Hi Gex
I had a slight issue as you described with Ludwigia sp glandulosa!
This Ludwigia can be a tad tricky to grow Low Tech in hard water!
I have the same lighting unit....so could be a leaf response to too much lighting as Tim stated...
I don't use Co2, but I did reduce the lighting plus remove the said twisted leaves and periodically added Easy Life ProFito...for more Potassium uptake!
This seems to have cured the problem....
Cheers
hoggie

Hoggie, cheers for the input mate

It's nice that i'm not the only one having problems growing certain plants, as reading the journals on here, 99% of the tanks look ram packed, stunning and so colourful - mine looks a bit of a mess!

FTS by DEAF N1NJA, on Flickr

I hope once I swap from the TNC complete to EI dosing that any possible deficiencies will subside....

 

[G H Nelson]

Looks okay, it all takes time....

 

[HiNtZ]

I know this is an old thread and apologise for resurrecting it but did the OP sort these issues out?