Cliff & Plateau

[McCarthy]

Maybe that will do the trick!

 

[McCarthy]

Years later lol

Well, life happened and I didn't progress any on the main tank, but at least maintained the small kitchen tank.

The other day I walk by one of those pet fish isles in Wal Mart and thought, what the heck, lets just get some random fish. Really liked the GloFish Danios. Read the label for water parameters, asked for 3 fish, grabbed some tropical flake food, drove home, brought the bag to tank temp, and let them go.

It took them only a few minutes and they started playing in the water pump stream. They accepted feeding right away. Looks like they are easy to maintain, very active.

All that being said, my main tank is still waiting for plants, and I WILL get this done in the coming months. It was actually good to take my time with the kitchen tank. I found out how to completely eliminate algae, and the water parameters are super balanced. I can run it 2 months without water changes and it's all clear and within spec.

I know.. the grass needs to be mowed. But then again, they like hiding in it.

 

[Edvet]

Plus on the tank, haevy minus on the glofish though

 

[Jayefc1]

Plus on the tank, haevy minus on the glofish though

Do you not like the glowfish

 

[Edvet]

Any manipulation like injecting with dye or manipulating genetic material just to be glow in the dark is against my feeling of respect for animals.
(Of course there can be many discussions of keeping animals in general, but just adjusting them, with no regards to any natural neccesities, just to increase sells, by any manipulating, i am dead set against.
Just like i am against all the selective breeding to change dogs and cats into fashion accessories.
I am not against selective breeding to enhance for instance disease resistance in crops, i am against incorporating, through genetical manipulation, resistance against certain weedkillers, so you can market those crops in combiation with said weedkiller.
I am against selective breeding which makes a chicken grow 1 kg in 6-8 weeks, sadly i blame the consumer for this, not willing to pay a reasonable price for a more animal friendly product, be it pork, chicken or eggs.)

 

[zozo]

Do you not like the glowfish

Ed is a Vet.. He probably knows some inside details that are not shared with the public.

In th early days Glofish were put in a agressive bath to distroy the protective mucus layer on their skin. Than after that get injected with a flourescent agent.
After this again the are left alone to hopefully heal and grow back their protective mucus. Mean while a great deal of the fish doesnt survive this treatment.
Imagine how many fish die a horrible death to provide the trade with a viable number of glowing fish. This method probably still goes on in the dark aleys of the trade..

Since this cruel commercial method of coloring fish surfacced, it caused some uproar with the animal welfare orginazations and some bad media attention. And since it actualy was a very succesfull trade, 10% of all ornamental fish sold in the USA are glofish. A bunch of commercial nutty professors gathered and developed a way to do it less stressful for the fish to make them glow with genetic manipulation. Claiming it is completely harmless and painless method.

Even if so, fishes manipulated like this are commercial lab freaks and have nothing to do with nature. We could ask the question should such commercial activities with geneticaly modifying animals into little Frankensteins to entertain little children etc. be supported or dismissed?..

 

[Jayefc1]

Wow I never even realised it was a change to the fish now I understand why you dont like them thanks I have learnt something it most definitely should not be supported it's wrong so how do we know what has been modified and what has not

 

[Zeus.]

Any manipulation like injecting with dye or manipulating genetic material just to be glow in the dark is against my feeling of respect for animals.
(Of course there can be many discussions of keeping animals in general, but just adjusting them, with no regards to any natural neccesities, just to increase sells, by any manipulating, i am dead set against.
Just like i am against all the selective breeding to change dogs and cats into fashion accessories.
I am not against selective breeding to enhance for instance disease resistance in crops, i am against incorporating, through genetical manipulation, resistance against certain weedkillers, so you can market those crops in combiation with said weedkiller.
I am against selective breeding which makes a chicken grow 1 kg in 6-8 weeks, sadly i blame the consumer for this, not willing to pay a reasonable price for a more animal friendly product, be it pork, chicken or eggs.)

 

[Tim Harrison]

so how do we know what has been modified and what has not

I always research the plants and animals I want to include in my scapes, if only to ensure that they're suitable. I've been in this hobby for several decades on and off and have learnt a lot but I'm also aware that as science progresses things change so research is also necessary to stay up to date. I've often discovered that knowledge I've taken for granted is either inaccurate, no longer relevant, or just plain wrong.

 

[Jayefc1]

That's where your years of experience comes into play and my lack of experience needs the people of ukaps to help me learn and I do fully appreciate what all you guys pass on

 

[zozo]

how do we know what has been modified and what has not

Good question, we don't till the media tells us so.. All tho some things might be relatively obvious for the older and more experienced hobbyist when we suddenly see a number of fish sp. appear in the trade that glow flourescent pink or in an other variety of colors.

Genetic manipulation is rather popular nowadays and in any case it is deemed harmless.. The truth is we do not know because we yet do not know everything about it. We assume it is harmless, what's unknown is the long run. We already have genetic manipulated Corn, soja, tomatos and who know's what more. Those alledgedly harmless manipulated vegtables are already around for over a decade. Manipulated to be dissease resistant and or grow bigger.

But recent studies suspect with a high degree of certainty that the pollen from geneticaly manipulated flowering plants that need insect polination are harmfull to bees. SInce after a few generation growing these manipulated crops,1000nds of bee keepers report loosing large numbers of bee populations suddenly dying without any obvious reason. And all are in the vicinity of manipulated crop fields. The bees depend on the pollen as food source too.. Without bees the farming industry is doomed.

Playing god and changing the blueprint of life to fight the cons of mother nature.. in the end it could backfire on th elong run resulting in a fight against ourselfs.

 

[McCarthy]

Well, that's what I get for taking so long, and finally making an unplanned and uneducated decision in a store. I had no clue.

I won't buy them again, obviously. I don't want to support any of this with my money.

When it comes to meats and any kind of food, I only buy none GMO, organic produce and farm-raised meats. Have been doing this for at least 5 years. It tripled my monthly grocery receipts, because in the US it is very expensive. It costs me $700 to $900 each month, for just one person. It really is worth it on both ends. And I feel MUCH better eating as health as I can. I don't touch any processed food, no refined sugars, no dairy, no grains. A full on Paleo diet.

Since I have bought these 3 guys I will keep them and take care of them. They seem to be very healthy, and smart for their size. They learned quickly, the moment they see the food container, they come to the surface right away and start going nuts over the flakes the moment they hit the water.

 

[alto]

Great to see this update (is there a “dancing with joy” emoticon? Apple had a (coincidental) dancing snowman for a while but he’s become a victim of Upgrade )

Zebra Danios are used extensively in all sorts of research, the project where jelly fish (I think) “glo” was integrated into host DNA and then successfully transcribed was not about making cute shiny fish ... that is just a serendipitous offshoot where science R&D actually might pay for itself

So enjoy your fish
No fish were harmed in the making of this production

And this is such an improvement over the dye injection or tattooing of fish

 

[McCarthy]

Great to see this update (is there a “dancing with joy” emoticon? Apple had a (coincidental) dancing snowman for a while but he’s become a victim of Upgrade )

Zebra Danios are used extensively in all sorts of research, the project where jelly fish (I think) “glo” was integrated into host DNA and then successfully transcribed was not about making cute shiny fish ... that is just a serendipitous offshoot where science R&D actually might pay for itself

So enjoy your fish
No fish were harmed in the making of this production

And this is such an improvement over the dye injection or tattooing of fish

Thanks, that summarizes what I have just found out researching GloFish.

 

[Jayefc1]

So I did see some glowlight dannios in a shop yesterday and they had the zebra striping on them but no where near the colour of the ones in the pic I did look them up and it said nothing about them being modified are all glowlight fish genetically inhansed

 

[Jayefc1]

Sorry for hijacking your thread Mcarthy

 

[McCarthy]

Sorry for hijacking your thread Mcarthy

No problem.

The GloFish is a patented and trademarked brand of genetically engineered fluorescent fish.

Here a copy and paste from Wiki:

In 1999, Dr. Zhiyuan Gong[2] and his colleagues at the National University of Singapore were working with a gene that encodes the green fluorescent protein (GFP), originally extracted from a jellyfish, that naturally produced bright green fluorescence. They inserted the gene into a zebrafish embryo, allowing it to integrate into the zebrafish's genome, which caused the fish to be brightly fluorescent under both natural white light and ultraviolet light. Their goal was to develop a fish that could detect pollution by selectively fluorescing in the presence of environmental toxins. The development of the constantly fluorescing fish was the first step in this process, and the National University of Singapore filed a patent application on this work.[3] Shortly thereafter, his team developed a line of red fluorescent zebra fish by adding a gene from a sea coral, and orange-yellow fluorescent zebra fish, by adding a variant of the jellyfish gene. Later, a team of researchers at the National Taiwan University, headed by Professor Huai-Jen Tsai (蔡懷禎), succeeded in creating a medaka (rice fish) with a fluorescent green color, which, like the zebrafish, is a model organism used in biology.

The scientists from NUS and businessmen Alan Blake and Richard Crockett from Yorktown Technologies, L.P., a company in Austin, Texas, met and a deal was signed whereby Yorktown obtained the worldwide rights to market the fluorescent zebrafish, which Yorktown subsequently branded as "GloFish".


I didn't try any black light on them, and won't because that really looks unnatural to me. That being said, mine are really that colorful.

 

[mort]

So I did see some glowlight dannios in a shop yesterday and they had the zebra striping on them but no where near the colour of the ones in the pic I did look them up and it said nothing about them being modified are all glowlight fish genetically inhansed

Glowlight danio, Celestichthys choprae are completely natural. You might find dyed fish over here still but glo fish aren't allowed to be sold in Europe because they are genetically modified.

I completely agree with alto above in that they are more "ethical" than tattooed or dyed fish as it was only their family embryo which was modified and each generation needs no further manipulation. I wouldn't personally want to see them for sale but they are a long way from inbred, weakened fish that suffer from life long health issues.

So enjoy them Mccarthy and just replace them with something more natural when the time comes. I love the simplicity of the scape btw and the algal covering of the rock looks really natural.

 

[alto]

They’ve just been allowed on a probationary sale in Canada for 6 months or so (will likely then be extended as usual good will gesture to our Southern Neighbours Florida company has distribution in NA for a specific list of fish species)
Modified Zebra Danios are slipping in from Asia but not the same quality of “glo” - or price

The glo white/black skirt tetras are surprisingly popular even at their (absurd) price
AND the Big Box shops are selling them along with new 5 gal tanks

 

[FishLifeLondon]

This has raised some unforeseen, but interesting questions.
The way I see it is GMO is only bad if it negatively affects the organisms’ welfare or if it interferes with natural selection in nature. GMO is not inherently worse than selective breeding.

The GMO Danios won’t experience any pain. They may react differently to each other now that they are fluorescent, but I wouldn’t know. They won’t have any interference in nature. As such, I don’t think it’s anymore immoral to keep the, than the typical Zebra Danio. However, I would never buy these fish as I keep aquariums for the enjoyment of a connection to nature and artistically aim to emulate nature and these fish would kind of undermine the vibe! Then again, I’m been dreaming of variegated Bucephalandra and Anubias recently. Despite, being less vulgar, they are still unconvincingly unnatural.