• You are viewing the forum as a Guest, please login (you can use your Facebook, Twitter, Google or Microsoft account to login) or register using this link: Log in or Sign Up

The Celestial Swamp - A voyage through a flooded forest fringe (Shallow Riparium)

dw1305 said:
Hi all,

If it was my frogbit I'd be fairly happy with it.

Why don't you just add more magnesium (Mg) and potassium (K) salts? "Equilibrium" would be an expensive option, and I'm pretty sure you don't need any more calcium (Ca). As the levels of calcium go up you may begin to get problems with iron chelation and magnesium uptake. Iron deficiencies would show first in the younger leaves (smaller and more yellow).

cheers Darrel.
Click to expand...

I've been only using .75 tsp of equilibrium a week so 1.5tsp won't break the bank, I can understand the extra calcium... I have "Epsom salts USP" in the bathroom but I don't know if that's safe... is that MgSO4 and safe for fish?

Clive always talks about structural damage and holes and melting leaves as an indictator of poor co2 and flow/distribution... I wouldn't think this would be such an issue in a low tech shallow tank with overflow and sump... the co2 should be at the maximum level of equilibrium it can achieve from the air... there's got to be another explaination for my stem woes... what is the limiting factor here?
 
Hi all,
hitmanx said:
I have "Epsom salts USP" in the bathroom but I don't know if that's safe... is that MgSO4 and safe for fish?
Click to expand...
Yes and yes, only thing to note that it will be the heptahydrate (MgSO4.7H2O) and ~10% Mg. The USP bit just means that it is pharmaceutical grade and has a high level of purity.
hitmanx said:
Clive always talks about structural damage and holes and melting leaves as an indictator of poor co2 and flow/distribution..
Click to expand...
Yes, that is the reason for the floating plant, it has access to 400ppm CO2, so any issues aren't related to CO2 availability.

cheers Darrel
 
Hi all,
hitmanx said:
but because the frog bit is generally in very good health can I only assume it's a co2 issue and if it is I have no way of fixing it...
Click to expand...
I'd just carry on the way you are. Because your submerged plants look in generally good health, I think they will eventually start to fill in.

You definitely aren't suffering from any major deficiencies. If it was my tank and I wanted a bit more growth I'd look at adding a bit more KNO3 and some magnesium and see what happens.

Things take a bit longer without CO2, but if you look back through your images to Jan. 2017 your plants have done really well.

32355938312_577157142e_b.jpg


cheers Darrel
 
Fantastic tank @hitmanx

In relation to the dwarf sag, do you have another tank to try some in? I used to keep it in a low tech juwel tank. It just hung around there for over a year without growing or dying. The light I used was the original one that came in the tank until after the third time it broke I bought an LED. Then the dwarf sag took off. Your emersed section plus the taller plants might be shadowing it a bit, or at least its a possibility. It happened to me in a tank with both emersed and submerged growth. In my observation, generally a plant that doesn't grow or spread at all, isn't getting sufficient light. Low CO2, low nutrients, etc..never have that extreme effect because any small amount of them the plant gets, it can utilize eventually. Where with light, there is such a thing as light compensation point, below which the plant just won't grow.

As for the floaters, I was never able to grow them in a tank that also has emersed growth. They just dwindled and died eventually, although I do not tend to dose much extra nutrients, if any these days. The emersed plants are powerful nutrient sponges and its hard for any other plants to compete with them, even other floaters, although I am sure it is possible with some extra nutrient doses.

Great tank. Looking forward to further progress.
 
Thanks everyone for the ideas...

You have me thinking about light... it's the great unknown here... I am using par38 LEDs and I have no frame of reference for PAR values as they're not very popular... I wish I had a meter to see what im actually dealing with...

Assuming the co2 and flow/distribution is consistent and my fertilizers are adequate or close to it, the limiting factor could be light... intensity or shading or photoperiod... if I had a meter I could rule out intensity... I don't think I have a shading issue besides the maidenhair fern for one area as I designed the riparium section to be way behind the submersed growth... so maybe it's photoperiod...

47231375982_e05de48e9d_b.jpg


47231375642_fc66f04e73_b.jpg


I started the tank as a drystart method in Nov or Dec of 2016 at 100% brightness for 12hrs and once filled in Jan 2017 I think I lowered the intensity to 75% for 6hrs and ramped that up to 7hrs after a month... I did not experience much in the way of algae until the summer and that was black fuzz on the carpet plants that stopped growing and synedra after that and was probably associated with high organics... after battling that for a longtime, I lowered the intensity to 65% in Feb 2018 where's it stayed until the summer where I had a greenwater or bacterial bloom at which point I lowered the intensity to 55% for 6hrs with a 30min noon at 75%... some synedra algae continued, but since cleaning the the poret filter and and sucking out all the mulm in the sump, all that has disappeared... there's only a tiny bit of bba here and there but nothing to worry about... Last month I increased the lights to 60% because I didn't like the spectrum at 55%... it seemed too blue and I'm not sure why...

And that's where we sit now...

What does all this mean? I have no idea what I'm doing with the lights... turn up the intensity? I'm afraid of an algae farm that will have to battle... longer photoperiod?

Obviously the emersed plants grow... but really the only stems that do well are hygrophila polysperma and now heterantha zosterfolia... the hygrophila angustifolia isn't doing well and as mentioned the dwarf sag is struggling and all other carpet plants died out except cryptocoryne parva and nevilii... Ludwigia repens disintegrated and the Lysimachia nummularia 'Aurea' isn't far behind... Cryptocoryne wendtii and lutea grow well on the sides and of course anubias do well...

I know I'm nitpicking at this point and overall I love the overall look of this tank, but I tend to overanalyze in the cold depths of winter.. . Pretty soon it will be spring outside and I will neglect the tank yet again...
 
Last edited:
hitmanx said:
and of course anubias do well...
Click to expand...

If you are not experiencing algae issues with anubias, your light is on the low side. Anubias for me do best in very little light, less than other plants can cope with to grow.

The tank is lovely as it is. No need to improve anything :p
 
I have some S. sabulata growing in a non fertilized slow tech, planted in akadama with no other light than daylight it gets from an east faced window next to it.. It's in there for about a year now, can't say it's strugling it also isn't taking off, but definitively propagating.

The tank stays relatively algae free, so i assume even it gets indirect daylight as sole light source it's not high light.. But i wouldn't know what light category to give it.. It's a pretty hardy plant that doesn't need much of anything to keep going. :)
 
4 months of neglect later...

48671963611_ac5e4f05bb_b.jpg


She's overgrown again...

48672139532_1a71778e0b_b.jpg


Almost no fertz for the last couple months and only 1 water change... the frogbit has suffered but all the rest is good... even the dwarf sag seems to have grown better under the H. Polysperma forest...
 
The update I was hoping for :D

You might consider adding Seachem Flourish tabs for the Crypts and dwarf sag (S subulata ?)

Filipe Oliveira uses this method with limited water column fertilization to good effect


There’s a one month video update
 
alto said:
The update I was hoping for :D

You might consider adding Seachem Flourish tabs for the Crypts and dwarf sag (S subulata ?)
Click to expand...

I have tried them... and osocote tabs as well... honestly I didn't see much difference...

The dwarf sag did grow since February, just slowly...

Feb:
48674560472_88268b97b4_b.jpg


Sep:
48673424603_0e862a1a85_b.jpg
 
alto said:
The update I was hoping for :D

You might consider adding Seachem Flourish tabs for the Crypts and dwarf sag (S subulata ?)
Click to expand...

Actually I just checked my records.. . I added about 20 osocote di y root tabs in February so maybe they do work ;)

I'll try again more regularly and see what happens...
 
Still one of my favourite tanks. I'd love to create something similar when I have the space but go for a slightly more blackwater look.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top