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284L low tech with dry start

A Python water changer is the best time investment ;)
(I’ve used alternate branded systems but quality, especially of the tubing, is no where near as good)

Just start syphon and drain to garden or toilet etc to save on water usuage (though Python does claim a 7:1 ratio once started (which is consistent with theory) - certainly the outflow water does run close to tank temp rather than the cold tap water, but that’s the extent of my measurement ... note if your tap pressure is low, it can struggle to start the syphon from tank (depending on distance and height) and will waste water during this stage)

Refill tank directly from tap, adding sufficient Prime for entire tank volume (depending on tap additives, you can omit Prime if no livestock - as I usually have a cycled filter, I add shrimp and snails the day after tank setup) With the twice a week water change, I’d aim for 70%

I looked at the Python and ended up getting a large bucket, hose and a small pump; although oldskool sucking gets the tank drained quickly. I can drain 70% in 15 minutes and then dump it out in the front yard, unless I go out there and there is a street altercation between my neighbors and some random teenager and the cops get called and I am a witness and whatever my neighborhood is not usually so trailer park but...the harder part is putting the water back in the tank quickly without disturbing the scape. If I reverse my pump I am afraid the flow will blast things out so I have been pouring the water back in, one pitcher at a time, with another container spreading the flow out (I don't have a nice red colander).

I have been adding Prime even though there is no livestock; I put some mulm in the filters when I started them up and there should also be some in the substrate. Somewhere I read that the bacteria we are trying to establish do not like straight clorine tapwater.


Check each day for any melt and do a quick syphon to remove any debris (maybe 10% water change to do this)​
Even 20% daily should increase CO2 levels in water - obviously one can also add sparkling water but most contain significant sodium levels, if you have a SodaStream system, just carbonate some tap water and add to tank ;)

Even with my work schedule I can siphon a bit each night; I assume the more dying gunk there is the more chance for algae and the greater need for water changes. Has anybody used SodaStream for CO2 rather than extinguishers for the long-term?

I find that melt becomes obvious around the second week - but this is going to vary with temp, also lighting and CO2

I was wondering exactly this; right now I can feel like the hero of DSM since nothing has had the chance to melt yet :dead: but I will report back weekly how it is going

If you plant R Vietnam H’ra, you can see the (surprisingly) low level of ambient light needed for leafs to “open”
(this plant grows rather nicely in non-CO2 and will show pink even in quite low light, slow growth setups, it’s become one of my favourite plants)

Nice recommendation; thanks!
 
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Pump flow rate isn’t adjustable?

http://www.pythonproducts.com/products.html
- replacement pump 13B has a standard hose connector
- tap connector (next product line down) depends on your tap fitting
Then you can easily adjust flow rate back into tank
In a bigger tank I refill back through the syphon tube (just make sure it’s all water to water with no air and the flow is dampened/smooth) or an old Eheim filter tube “strainer” (small tanks)
You can also place the return into a small container resting on the bottom of the tank (I use old Whole Foods clear plastic containers as I like to “see”) as this will also dampen the flow - just make sure your hose won’t flip free when you decide it’s safe to turn up the tap flow :oops: :oops: :oops:

Any sort of hose can be used to drain the tank
But
When refilling, make sure the hose is not treated with antifungals etc (most garden/outdoor hose in Canada, US is treated, unless you buy drinking water grade (for campers etc))
I like clear hose as I’m somewhat adept at siphoning shrimp etc (or perhaps I just have fish and shrimp that really want to travel)
 
As @alto mentions above the python system or similar is worth its weight in gold, the standard hook makes things so much easier and saves worrying about the hose coming out of the tank while refilling but you could also use one of the standard plastic pipes that comes with most external filters and a couple of quick release connectors to switch between this and the syphon tube

This is the python hook with part of the standard eheim kit attached to diffuse water going back in

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My kit didn’t include the hook and none of the local shops that used to retail Python Products carried it (and I refuse to pay outrageous mailing fees :eek:) so I made do with an Eheim suction cup (one of the C’s is the perfect size) and the same Eheim green filter diffuser ... the system works grand
Unless
SOME Cat leaps about in apparent frenzy and dislodges the lot :arghh: :mad: ............. again :banghead:
 
One week after flooding. A touch of melt here and there, especially this one patch of Monte Carlo
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Some more views of the tank. This is just before today's water change; there is a little bit of dark gunk settled everywhere. I think it comes from the wood, which also has a little bit of slime on it. I'm pretty happy with the two Oase BioMaster 600's; they are so quiet that I keep checking the outflows to make sure they are still on. No leaking, either.
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DSM_6_20190907_flooded.jpg
 
This is when I rail against aquarium wood :mad:
:lol:

(Sometimes I use just stone in a complete reversal from my earlier wood only scapes)

Livestock activity seems to reduce that accumulation of debris on leaves - just “waft” like George! :cool:
You can do this without water changes - or possibly incorporate it into the small daily changes to remove melting plant material (strongly recommended as it can impact more and more plants, almost like a contagion)

A shrimp crew would remove those melting MC leaves before you really notice any extended melt, but then there are additional concerns re water parameters suitable to livestock

I suspect after a dry start of this length, there are good levels of bacteria in soil, on wood, plants and slow addition of livestock would be fine - I use Seachem’s Ammonia Alert (& sometimes pH Alert as well) to monitor
(note that ammonia is much less toxic under acidic than alkaline conditions)

I’d add 10 subadult shrimp to start - which would be a minimal bioload in a tank of this size
Then add 20 - 30 more (if initial group seem to thrive)
(I always look for juvenile - subadult shrimp when buying, they are usually more adaptable than adults, it’s also difficult to assess age in adult shrimp)
 
Day 15 since flooding. The MC melt seems to be contained to one patch, although I have had more Anubias and Buce melt in this tank than in my others. They were added after the dry start and this is the brightest tank I have so I wonder if too much light is the reason. Mostly things are holding together so I added some Nerite snails and 3 Amano shrimp today. Side views:
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Still haven't figured out how to take fish pics with my phone; they are just blurs. Some general plant scenes:

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I have been pretty satisfied with the transition to immersed so far; some melt here and there but nothing major. Still on 40 to 50% water change twice a week, and I intended to use a lot of Excel at first and then taper off slowly but I keep forgetting to dose.
 
Add at least 3 more Otos, please - the tank is certainly large enough to support a group - and they are very sociable

And 10 more Amano ;)

3 black mollies may be enough as they get quite large (they do prefer hard alkaline water or even brackish) and if you have one girl, they’ll slowly generate more Molly for your Tank :p
(reduced fry survival in community tanks, and they aren’t as prolific as guppies)

Rummynose will brighten with more numbers (not my favourite fish but lots of people like them)
 
Mollies have always been hit or miss with me; some adapt to softer water and do fine some don't. These were in the LFS a couple miles from my house since at least last week and seemed to be doing fine there, so hopefully they will thrive in my water which should be similar. I do have plans for continued stocking: was thinking of 25 cardinal tetras, 13 black neons and 7 black phantoms for schooling fish. What don't you like about rummynose? Something about their coloring, or their behavior?

My 3 Amano are hiding now that there are fish around; I hope they get used to them and come out again!
 
General recommendation is at least 10 shrimp - they feel much more comfortable in groups
You could easily do 30-40 Amano in this tank (as cleanup crew)

The Rummy’s and Molly’s likely investigate anytime the shrimp venture out
Rummynose tetras can be pickpickpick at other fish (don’t put a Betta in with them) and are often constantly in motion - I don’t find them restful (Mark Evans put them in one of his tanks and commented on their constant restless movement - he included some video, though I can’t recall which tank journal)
They likely will be fine in your tank as it’s a good size

I prefer the greens and blues and purples and browns in my aquarium fish (chocolate gourami, kubotai rasbora etc) rather than the reds :)
 
I would like to accumulate a mess of Amanos in this tank; these three were the pioneers.
Have you kept Bamboo shrimp? I am curious about having one or two of them; the flow is pretty strong in the back of the tank and there are a few potential perches for them to sit and filter
 
I’ve not kept any of the filterfeeding shrimp, check out possible species and be sure of the identity before you purchase (sometimes shops are not that knowledgeable or shipped species may be incorrectly labelled)
Keep one for several months (or even a year) before adding another - they often starve in tanks over the longterm
 
Tragedy strikes. All but one of the 8 rummynoses have died already and I just got them last Sunday:(. I've been fishkeeping for 40 years and the last time I had a batch of fish die that quickly was when we put a dozen small neon tetras in with the angelfish. The 3 mollies, 2 otos and Amano shrimp seem fine.
 
Commiserations

You could check back with the shop if they had any losses ... some shops will say, some won’t, sometimes just wandering back in is more revealing, just stand and watch the fish for 15min or so looking for weak fish

If losses were gradual, I’d suspect disease
If all died suddenly one day, it may be a tank related - though seems less likely as you’re not adding CO2, there’s sufficient flow (of the fish you have, the Rummy’s are the most oxygen demanding) and with that low a fish load, I’d be surprised if ammonia would be an issue

At this point, I’d perform a large water change, vacuum as much as you can, wipe down glass - if this is ich related, expect some life stages in water column and on surfaces
Don’t add fish for 2-3 weeks

IME Otocinclus seem much less ich prone than many other fish species, and I’ve witnessed Rummynose (single species shop tank) dying suddenly after a few days of seeming “slightly under the weather” but no visible/definitive symptoms
FWIW the Rummynose is the photo above does not look like a “happy” fish, there’s some clamping of the fins (usually a sign of external parasites, but may also be seen in internal bacterial infections) and dulled colours (but significance also depends which species of “Rummynose”)

Monitor the Mollies very closely for even a single white spot (ich) - take some photos or video if they don’t remain still enough for close examination
Watch for increased respiration, less active swimming, any change in food response - these are always apparent before the first white spot appears (but are overlooked by many)

In reality Ichthyophthirius multifiliis is so prevalent in the ornamental fish industry that I’m inclined to treat whenever I buy fish (or fish ship in), I always quarantine fish before adding to my tanks
(Research studies have shown ~90% of shipped fish have some degree of ich, the stress of bagging and shipping will see an exponential increase in parasite levels)
 
Yeah the last surviving rummynose has ich; I can see the white spots on him/her. Back in the day I used to treat all incoming fish with that ich medicine that turned the water blue, but now I have concerns about the shrimp and overmedicating the fish in the tank that are OK -this will matter more when I have some fish established and am adding new ones. I used to hate adding new fish when the existing community was stable. I suppose this is where a quarantine tank becomes useful; what exactly do you do with your incoming fish? (medication, time in quarantine, size of your q-tank, etc.?) I just have a small 10L tank that I could use.
 
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Seeing that Ich spot is good/bad ... nice to have a confirmed illness but now you know that every (ich) life stage is present in what a week ago was a lovely pristine tank :oops:
After having a case of medication resistant ich (and no idea how it slipped through the quarantine process) a couple years back, I’m very careful with fish additions to my display tanks
(as you’re in Florida expect local ich strains to be heat resistant/tolerant so don’t treat with increased temps (you’ll kill most fish before you eradicate ich))


Medications I like to keep at hand (then I rarely need them ;))
Hikari Ich-X Salt Water, PraziPro, BiFuran+
Seachem ParaGuard, KanaPlex, MetroPlex, Focus

Ich-X SW, ParaGuard, MetroPlex can be tolerated short term in planted tanks with minimal invertebrate losses
Note, shrimp that have just moulted are sensitive to everything (even a normal water change) until their new exoskeleton hardens, which can take up to 24-36 h depending
(If I see any moults in the tank, I’ll wait for water changes etc)

Both Hikari and Seachem present warnings/cautions when using medications (many people think about the biofilter possibly being affected, but oxygen sequestration is a much more immediate concern), Seachem has fairly extensive information, some is included on the profile page, other details may be given on their Discussion Board
(and you can email etc directly)

The trick with a Quarantine or Hospital tank is that it needs to be convenient for use, maintenance etc and a suitable size for most fish you might purchase/own
Generally a bare tank is more sensible re limiting potential disease/providing a near “sterile” tank - substrates can be fantastic reservoirs of infection agents
One can also use any food safe bin plus air driven sponge - though I prefer to use small, adjustable flow internal filters that I can quickly load with media from my main filter (air pump noise drives me :mad:)
Some fish are very sensitive to bare environs and stress will limit recovery - I prefer to quarantine wild caught fish in dim tanks with rock/wood etc, or even a basic planted tank (where I’m willing to sacrifice plants for treatment)

I will almost always treat new fish for ich, at the early stages, 2-3 doses of Ich-X SW over a few days is usually sufficient
After that, I’m just doing frequent water changes and monitoring fish for several days to weeks
(again this depends on fish species you like to keep, I’m a chocolate gourami fan, and they should be quarantined
for 6 - 8 weeks to be sure there are no internal bacterial infections ... that will immediately be shared with related species)

(by the time you observe any visible white spots - fish are infested)

If you like to adjust or add fish regularly, then an investment in an AIO tank kit may be worthwhile

Antibiotics or BiFuran etc are generally poorly tolerated by invertebrates and plants (especially at “tropical” temperatures)

A standard 10 gal tank is fine for most “slender tetras” type fish, if you like larger fish or might purchase larger shoals, I’d upgrade to a 20gal (used is fine, just thoroughly clean before use, and test for leaks OUTSIDE)

PS
I’d call and inform the shop of your experience
 
Thank you for another very informative post; I will be digesting it and referring to it in the future.

Ich-X SW, ParaGuard, MetroPlex can be tolerated short term in planted tanks with minimal invertebrate losses
Note, shrimp that have just moulted are sensitive to everything (even a normal water change) until their new exoskeleton hardens, which can take up to 24-36 h depending
(If I see any moults in the tank, I’ll wait for water changes etc)

I did not know this about molting shrimp. What happens when you have a tank full and somebody's always molting? Keep your scheduled water changes anyways and hope for the best?

I will almost always treat new fish for ich, at the early stages, 2-3 doses of Ich-X SW over a few days is usually sufficient. After that, I’m just doing frequent water changes and monitoring fish for several days to weeks

This is in the main tank or the quarantine tank?

Thanks again
 
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