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Heated Propagator: An emersed growing experiment . . .

Djoko Sauza said:
Thanks for the details. Even with the plants being adapted to low oxygen levels in the substrate, wouldn't an increase in oxygen levels be an advantage? After all, the goal is to provide optimal conditions for plant growth.

I'd think every little bit would help. But even using a venturi, a constantly flooded system will never achieve the same levels of oxygen a "flood and drain" system could. You see, every time water drains from the root system it gets replaced by air with 21ppm oxygen whereas you can only get around max 8ppm dissolved oxygen in the water.

But as @dw1305 mentions, it may be that higher oxygen levels are not that relevant to the development of your chosen plants and the benefits would be negligible.
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I see. I guess that’s why aeroponics is so successful. Well I’ll run this as is now, and if it doesn’t work out I’ll try a flood and drain system with a different substrate like clay pebbles. It should be quite easy to organise with a couple of dosing pumps.
 
Hi all,
Djoko Sauza said:
Even with the plants being adapted to low oxygen levels in the substrate, wouldn't an increase in oxygen levels be an advantage? After all, the goal is to provide optimal conditions for plant growth.
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Yes, more oxygen will never hurt.
Djoko Sauza said:
I'd think every little bit would help. But even using a venturi, a constantly flooded system will never achieve the same levels of oxygen a "flood and drain" system could. You see, every time water drains from the root system it gets replaced by air with 21ppm oxygen whereas you can only get around max 8ppm dissolved oxygen in the water.
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I'm pretty sure that this will give enough oxygen with circulation, even without the venturi, but <"I'm a venturi fan">.
Djoko Sauza said:
it may be that higher oxygen levels are not that relevant to the development of your chosen plants and the benefits would be negligible.
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I'd guess that the Bucephalandra cuttings would be the ones that need the highest oxygen content, so I'd look at those first in terms of them rotting, rather than rooting.

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
I'd guess that the Bucephalandra cuttings would be the ones that need the highest oxygen content, so I'd look at those first in terms of them rotting, rather than rooting.
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I would definitely agree. I had Bucephalandra planted in 50/50 perlite and either peat or some sort of compost and they rotted away at the roots. They really need to have a very airy substrate. I know people have success with using aquasoil and top dressing it with some lava rock. I'd definitely try this if you end up having issues.
 
dw1305 said:
I'd guess that the Bucephalandra cuttings would be the ones that need the highest oxygen content, so I'd look at those first in terms of them rotting, rather than rooting.
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greenbliss said:
I would definitely agree. I had Bucephalandra planted in 50/50 perlite and either peat or some sort of compost and they rotted away at the roots. They really need to have a very airy substrate. I know people have success with using aquasoil and top dressing it with some lava rock. I'd definitely try this if you end up having issues.
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Thanks guys - for the sites the Buce are in I could pull the planting plugs out of the tray (they are easy to remove) and replace with some Seramis granules that I have - would that be worth doing? Would you do this for anubias too?
 
This is really cool, it makes sense for anyone with prolonged interest in aquascaping to try and keep a selection of plants like this; it's just getting over the initial hurdles, as well as trade off I suppose with running cost Vs buying plants every so often instead
 
Hi all,
Wookii said:
Thanks guys - for the sites the Buce are in I could pull the planting plugs out of the tray (they are easy to remove) and replace with some Seramis granules that I have - would that be worth doing? Would you do this for anubias too?
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GHNelson said:
Yes, do that for the Anubias.
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Yes I would, and Seramis for the Anubias cuttings as well.

cheers Darrel
 
Great thread @Wookii , as said by others love these experiments 😁 great very helpful read so far, also read @Courtneybst previous thread and same as you i wanted to try and will certainly do in future when get a bit time 😅.

Will this be a cheap setup to run ? I also think that the sytem should be ok without the mister as i have a small dooa maru pot with bucephlandra kedagang in and i literally mist once in a blue moon, been there for years now and even grown but only a small amout as not much light but i do think they hold humidity very well and the mister cant hurt and looks good 😏.

Watching with interest and will more than likely be copying at some point and try fit in my 900 cabinet .I would love to try propagate rare expensive plants but keep up the hard work and keep us updated. Thanks 😊
 
Deano3 said:
Great thread @Wookii , as said by others love these experiments 😁 great very helpful read so far, also read @Courtneybst previous thread and same as you i wanted to try and will certainly do in future when get a bit time 😅.

Will this be a cheap setup to run ? I also think that the sytem should be ok without the mister as i have a small dooa maru pot with bucephlandra kedagang in and i literally mist once in a blue moon, been there for years now and even grown but only a small amout as not much light but i do think they hold humidity very well and the mister cant hurt and looks good 😏.

Watching with interest and will more than likely be copying at some point and try fit in my 900 cabinet .I would love to try propagate rare expensive plants but keep up the hard work and keep us updated. Thanks 😊
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Thanks mate. Not sure on the cost to run - certainly less than a small aquarium. It could potentially be ran outside during the Summer also, removing the need for lights and a fair bit of the heating.

There is obviously the sunk cost of the equipment (though mine was a present from the whole family), but then with each batch of plants, that cost essentially gets spread between each plant created (I’ll also be using this kit to grow on other garden plants and seeds at some point so it’ll get use elsewhere).

I also had to buy the initial starter batch of plants, but again, if they do grow, some of the plants can be sacrificed and split for the next round of propagation. If I were currently using stem plants in my tanks, I’d use some of those cuttings to grow emersed too to see how they got on.

I’ve read several people now saying that the Buce don’t grow very much emersed, and grow better submerged so I don’t have high hopes for those - though that being said shop bought ones always come emersed with the roots growing well into the rockwool, so I assume they are grown from small cuttings emersed by Tropica et al. Who knows what they do to get them to grow.
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all,


Yes I would, and Seramis for the Anubias cuttings as well.

cheers Darrel
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Thanks Darrel, Seramis added in place of the growing plugs:

4270969C-177A-4AE1-A672-FE551CA2F354.jpeg



38365AE2-99F8-46E4-A542-6D329E98E6CA.jpeg
 
Wookii said:
Thanks mate. Not sure on the cost to run - certainly less than a small aquarium. It could potentially be ran outside during the Summer also, removing the need for lights and a fair bit of the heating.
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Hi
be careful when you put them outside.
No direct sunlight should be hitting the propagator at any point.It will increase temperature inside very rapidly and will most likely scorch the leaves.
Cost of running one of them propagators in summer will be more or less equal to the cost of running your light source so not dear at all.Depending on your lights choice you can run multiple propagators under one light unit consumption. I used to run led spot lights back in the day over each propagator.They were not powerful enough to get super fast growth but it suited my needs of keeping spares of plants or strengthen in vitro plants for use in my low techs.
I always preferred to use artificial lights only as it is more convenient and consistent than moving the propagator out of direct sun all the time.
Regards Konstantin
 
Can anyone recommend an all in one liquid plant fertiliser that contains urea/ammonia for the nitrogen source?

I have some BioBizz Fishmix, so could use that, but I’m not sure if it’s missing any nutrients, or is the ideal combination of nutrients for this project.

I can ofcourse continue using EI ferts if there aren’t any real advantages in using anything else, but given there aren’t any livestock concerns with this I thought I’d consider other options?
 
I think another thing worth mentioning is keeping the whole thing clean of dead plant material etc. In wet conditions any sort of filth can begin to cause issues. Little bits of dirt splash on leaves and build up eventually causing them to rot or cause mould. Attached bellow is an image of an algae blob I found in my emersed setup today which reminded me of this. You can also see in certain parts the leaves have holes in them and this is simply because of rotting plant matter splashing onto them, causing rotting. I think it is genuinely really worth it to dump everything out every few months and just give it a rinse in some tap water.
 

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Day 9:

Bit of a mixed bag after just over a week. Some of the invitro plants have definitely grown and are starting to show some new leaves, though are remaining a little ‘limp’. Of the potted plants, some leaves have melted, whilst there has been some growth in the remaining leaves and some new leaves starting to show.


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As you can see though, the Crypt Parva has comprehensively melted. These were the only potted plants from an eBay seller, and were a bit puny when they arrived (compared to the bushy Tropica pots I have had in the past from retailers). Whether this is a factor, I don’t know - I’ve never had much success with eBay plants - or whether the growing cubes are too wet or there is some other factor?

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I definitely think, if I replace the Parva, I will also replace the growing cubes with the Seramis to get more air to, and less water drenching of, the roots, as suggested above. The Seramis wicks up water rapidly between the grains, but let’s a lot more air through the gaps.
 
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