48L aquascaped aquarium - where am I going wrong?

[cdewsnip]

About 8 months ago I set up my first Aquascaped tank. I've done my best to read and learn as much as possible but for some reason it just has never quite established itself properly and looks nothing like the examples I see in the magazines and online!

I was inspired by this nano aquarium that George Farmer set up and have closely followed this: http://www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/p ... cle_id=697


I've spent a lot of time and money on trying to buy/do what my tank needs but no matter what I do it doesn't seem to work right. The main problems are:

1. The plants are growing but not particularly well. The Blyxa Aubertii in particular is really ragged.

2. Having both the aqua soil and the HC makes it extremely difficult to clean the bottom of the tank and it always seems a little bit dirty somehow.

3. Recently I've developed both Blue green algae and Oedogonium algae. I read that these can be due to nutrients being too low so I changed from Tropica Plant Nutrition to the plus version about a month ago with no luck. I also increased the Excel dosage slightly as I heard this can help and I have been cutting out the blue green algae each week.

4. Even though I do weekly 40% water changes and have added a more powerful external filter to the tank the water just never seems clean somehow. Perhaps I’m being realistic but I never seem to have that beautiful crystal clear water with nice bright green plants. It always just seems a bit of a brown/green mess.

Overall I’m just not particularly happy with it and it hasn’t turned out like I’d hoped at all (I’m sure this is quite common!).

The good news is that all my fish seem to be happily chugging along and I haven’t lost any at all.

I have a few questions that I’m looking to answer and would really appreciate any thoughts/ideas:

1. The problems I’m having and the fact I haven’t been able to solve them makes me wonder if perhaps I’ve just been too ambitious and unrealistic with what I am trying to set up. Should I modify the setup to make it easier to maintain and change some of the plants? The Aqua Soil just always seems to look dirty for some reason and I wonder if pebbles and removing the HC would make things a lot easier (I love the look of the HC in planted tank examples but somehow it’s just not the same in my own!). What should I use instead of Aquasoil in this case?

2. Where am I going wrong here? I’ve read a lot of posts about aquascaped tanks and it doesn’t seem like I’m doing anything obviously wrong but clearly something isn’t quite working. The filter is apparently a good one, the Aquasoil is supposedly very good, I have increased the lighting, I am adding liquid carbon, I’m using what I’ve heard is the best plant fertiliser, I’ve added Otos to help with algae etc.

3. If anyone has any advice on how I can improve the aquascaping of the tank that would also be most appreciated!


I’m taking images now so will add these in a few minutes which will hopefully illustrate what I’m meaning. Thanks so much in advance for any help given!



Details:

Aquarium:
48L Aqua Pod aquarium
2211 Eheim Classic filter (I replaced the internal filter that came with the AquaPod)
2x 15watt daylight bright bulbs (I replaced the night bulb with an additional day bulb to get additional light) – 10 hours per day
24 degrees

Fish:
6x Endler Livebearers
4x Cherry Barbs
4x Otocinclus
4x snails

Maintenance:
2ml Flourish Excel each day
2ml Tropica Plant Nutrition plus each day
40% water change each week
Light gravel vacuuming each week
Wipe algae off glass each week
Check water parameters each week

Setup/plants:
ADA Amazonia Aqua Soil
Pogostemon Helferi
Hemianthus callitrichoides "Cuba" (HC)
Redmoor wood
Tropica Plant Substrate
Knife stone from Aqua Essential
Blyxa Japonica Dwarf soft rush
Blyxa Aubertii
Anubias Barterii (growing on the Redmoor wood)

 

[andyh]

Hello

I am sure you will get some more detailed answers, but some things to consider.

Flow and filtration in a planted tank is very important and you mention that your water/substrate never look that clean.

You are using a 2211 which i guess has a flow of approx 200lph, in a perfect world you should be using something that turns over your tank volume at least 10 times per hour.

So you really want a minimum of 480l per hour as your tank is 48l. The extra flow helps keep the waste in transit and moves it to your filter. I use 500lph on my 35l and 750lph on 57l. Remember the plants will reduce the flow also

A cheap starting point would be to add a power head like a Hydor Koralia, to help keep things moving.

Blue/Green algae can be brought on by a number of things but, Dirty substrates and filters may also bring it on. Poor water circulation is another possible cause.

SO increasing the flow and making sure your filter is clean and running well would be a good start. I would also suggest more liquid carbon too. But i will let somebody else give advice on this as i haven't used flourish excel.

Hope this helps as a starter.

 

[ceg4048]

Hi,
It's important to keep in mind that it's actually very difficult to reproduce someone else tank because one cannot always reproduce the conditions. The algal and growth performance issues point to poor nutrition. It's not clear from your profile where you live but Georges water supply is reportedly high in NO3/PO4. Therefore, this must be taken into account in any dosing scheme. If your municipal water supply is low in macronutrients, or if you are using RO/DI then you likely have not reproduced the nutrient levels in Georges tank, although you will get some from fish waste.

As Andy pointed out, flow is critical. I think the article also mentions that George started the tank out with gas injection and then transitioned to liquid carbon which would have made a world of difference. You cannot get the same growth performance from liquid carbon as with gas. So essentially, his tank was started as a typical high tech gas injected tank and after the plants had stabilized and gotten healthy the gas was withdrawn and the liquid carbon introduced. The plants were effectively put on a diet but only after they had a achieved a certain level of fitness.
Many people having difficulty starting a tank with liquid carbon and that's specifically because they assume that the CO2 produced by the liquid carbon at bottle suggested dosing rates somehow equals the level of CO2 achieved from gas injection. It's also extremely difficult to reproduce Georges knowledge, so I don't think this project would be as turnkey as the article might suggest at first glance.

I'd start the recovery by immediately disabling one of the two light bulbs. Light encourages algae and creates a CO2+nutrient uptake demand in the plants, which, if not met, causes CO2 and nutrient related stress, typically categorized by the appearance of algal species such as BGA (stress due to low nitrate) and Oedogonium (stress due to poor CO2 and overall nutrient levels). in conjunction with the reduction in lighting intensity, I also think about doubling both the liquid carbon and the TPN+ dosages. Flow can be addressed by either upgrading the filter to a higher rating or by supplementing via Koralia, although that won't look nice in a nano.

Cheers,

 

[cdewsnip]

Thanks for your advice guys. I really appreciate it!

Andyh - I was under the understanding that the Eheim 2211 would be more than sufficient for a 48L tank. Is that not the case? Is it perhaps not working properly? I would have thought the 40% water change and this filter would be enough to keep the water clear but it doesn't seem this way. I find the Aquasoil really impossible to clean because if you stir it up it just creates a complete mess and takes ages to settle down. And I end up vacuuming up half of it when trying to clean it as it's so fine. Also with the HC and the Aquasoil together it's really hard to get in there without just upending the HC (I do tend to lose a bit every time I clean my tank for this reason). I try my best to vacuum up as much muck as possible before I do the water change but the water change inevitably stirs up more muck so by the time I'm finished it barely feels like it is cleaner! I make sure I don't overfed my fish and I don't feel I have overstocked the tank but it's just impossible to get the tank completely clean it seems. I'll definitely have a look into the powerhead you mentioned. If you do have any other thoughts I'd love to hear them!

ceg4048 - I have been told previously that I need both of the lights in order to grow the plants I have so am a little bit confused. I know with fishkeeping everyone always says something different so it's hard to get an idea of what is right! I'm happy to change the tank so that it's a bit lower maintenance if what I am trying to do isn't sustainable for me. Would you recommend this? Perhaps replace some of the plants with hardier varieties? And you're right - is it harder than it looks to copy another person's tank! I will increase both the excel and the TPN+ so thanks for this advice.

I thought I'd also post my tap water and tank water levels in case this helps:

Tank:

Ph - 7.2
Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - ever so slightly above 0
Nitrite - 0

Tap water:

Ph - 7.4
Ammonia - 0.25
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite 0

Images can be viewed here though they aren't particularly clear sorry:

http://www3.snapfish.co.uk/thumbnai...sc=SHR/otsi=SALBlink/COBRAND_NAME=snapfishuk/

Thanks again for the advice.

 

[ceg4048]

ceg4048 - I have been told previously that I need both of the lights in order to grow the plants I have so am a little bit confused. I know with fishkeeping everyone always says something different so it's hard to get an idea of what is right! I'm happy to change the tank so that it's a bit lower maintenance if what I am trying to do isn't sustainable for me. Would you recommend this? Perhaps replace some of the plants with hardier varieties? And you're right - is it harder than it looks to copy another person's tank! I will increase both the excel and the TPN+ so thanks for this advice. ...

Yes, there is certainly a lot said, but very few doing the saying actually understand the science of fish keeping and even less so for plant keeping. A lot of the ideas about lighting seem to have been derived from observations of hydroponic gardens or maybe even from cannabis growers who use huge, powerful lights to increase their yield. What the casual observer fails to realize is that high intensity lighting is not use as a requirement but simply to accelerate the crop yield. This brings the crop yield to market faster. Light is an accelerator. It's not a requirement, although there is a minimum amount of light needed to grow each species. If you head into a dense forest you'll find that there is a vast difference between the lighting at the very top (the canopy) compared to the forest floor. Yet the floor can have very dense growth, even though the lighting is low. Plants in the lower region adapt to the lighting level but they do not grow as quickly.

Now, compare the amount of sunlight in British Isles/Ireland to the amount of light in Spain for example. Which nation has more trees? More dense forests? British Isles is low in light but high in water. Spain has exactly the opposite. All the northern tourists escape to get more sun down south, but isn't Dublin emerald green, and isn't Costa Del Sol mostly brown? So how important is high light compared to other environmental factors?

In terrestrial systems, high light drives a higher rate of photosynthesis which required more water. If sufficient water isn't available the system fails. Only when you get down to the tropic and sub-tropic zones, where the level of water matches the level of the sunlight do you see massively dense forests. Because of the high light and high water content a Mahogany or a Fig tree will grow much faster than an English Oak, but again, it's an issue of acceleration, not necessity.

In aquatic systems, light plays an identical role. Again, high light drives a higher rate of photosynthesis but the limiting factor is not water, of which there is plenty, but CO2, which is much less available in water than in air. So the situation is reversed in aquatic systems. Photosynthesis requires water plus CO2. The more light that reaches the leaf the more water and CO2 is needed. This is absolute. There is no negotiating on this basic principle. CO2 + water + nutrients grows all plants. Light is merely a throttle.

Both the Oak and the Mahogany tree leaves have access to something on the order of 250-300 ppm of CO2 because they have full exposure to atmosphere and can breathe easily. Your plants have access to probably less than 8-10 ppm while inundated with water, and if the circulation is sub-par then that number might fall to less than 1 ppm. Since 40% of a plants dry mass is Carbon it is imperative that the level of light does not exceed the levels of available CO2.

You yourself have now dis-proven the popular theory that high light is a necessity. Lowering the light will pay immediate dividends and it will make sense within the context of the above explanation. Lower light will lower the acceleration of algae growth and will lower the nutrient and CO2 demand of the plants. Increasing the Excel+nutrient dosing will provide better access to the key ingredients of growth.

You'll really need to scrub and trim off affected leaves while doing more frequent water changes. Once you get an algal bloom, elbow grease is a requirement, in addition to the other changes discussed.

I'm going to ignore your test kit readings because I know there is a high probability that with the exception of pH (which doesn't matter anyway) they are all inaccurate. I'm sure you'll find a million websites which all say that testing is important, but again all that testing hasn't helped at all so my feeling is; what good is it?

Cheers,

 

[andyh]

Thanks for your advice guys. I really appreciate it!

Andyh - I was under the understanding that the Eheim 2211 would be more than sufficient for a 48L tank. Is that not the case? Is it perhaps not working properly? I would have thought the 40% water change and this filter would be enough to keep the water clear but it doesn't seem this way. I find the Aquasoil really impossible to clean because if you stir it up it just creates a complete mess and takes ages to settle down. And I end up vacuuming up half of it when trying to clean it as it's so fine. Also with the HC and the Aquasoil together it's really hard to get in there without just upending the HC (I do tend to lose a bit every time I clean my tank for this reason). I try my best to vacuum up as much muck as possible before I do the water change but the water change inevitably stirs up more muck so by the time I'm finished it barely feels like it is cleaner! I make sure I don't overfed my fish and I don't feel I have overstocked the tank but it's just impossible to get the tank completely clean it seems. I'll definitely have a look into the powerhead you mentioned. If you do have any other thoughts I'd love to hear them!

I have just checked The Eheim 2211 has a published flow rate of 300lph (less drop off with media etc probably giving 200-250lph)
In my early days of fish keeping i would of never considered putting an external on such a small l tank. However a lot of the guys like myslef on here use the x10 rule for filters and it works very well. Aquascaped tanks need more, I am not suggesting that this will solve all your problems it may just help. If you Start with the powerhead this should help and get the waste moving into to your filter, concentrate on trying to eliminate dead spots.

You should try not to disturb your aquasoil too much as this can cause ammonia spikes etc, which is not good for a number of reasons.

Get more flow, and that should help in conjunction with Clives responses, he really knows what he is talking about and has helped me many times!

Good luck

 

[sgl101]

Pictures may help

Steve

 

[cdewsnip]

Thanks guys. I have just purchased the Nano Hydor Koralia powerhead so will see how this goes. Where am I best to position this? I guess wherever the water movement isn't great which is on the side and front of the tank. All the other powerheads seemed that they would be far too powerful for my tank.

I've also reduced the lighting as suggested and have been cutting out the algae when possible. No change yet but hopefully with the powerhead it will improve things.

Thanks again for all the advice!

 

[Barney]

Just to re-iterate a point already made. Try not to disturb the substrate at all. I used to use AS on my planted tank and anytime I did a major replant I would always get a massive algae bloom soon after.

If you do need to disturb the substrate at all then make sure you do a large water change directly afterwards.

 

[andyh]

Thanks guys. I have just purchased the Nano Hydor Koralia powerhead so will see how this goes. Where am I best to position this? I guess wherever the water movement isn't great which is on the side and front of the tank. All the other powerheads seemed that they would be far too powerful for my tank.

I've also reduced the lighting as suggested and have been cutting out the algae when possible. No change yet but hopefully with the powerhead it will improve things.

Thanks again for all the advice!

Hello

Its a hard question to answer without knowing your tank.
The secret i found was that everything should gently sway, so try and it get it to compliment your existing filter return.
I have mine opposite to the filter return to create a a good circular flow within my tank. But bare in mind that suits my tank but may not suit all setups.