Plant & Algae Problems

[phantomfisher]

I was not sure the best forum to post this cry for help

I am having problems with my 400L planted tank (fully cycled) which has been up and running for about 8 weeks.

My problems are algae and plant health! First of all the details of my setup:

Lighting:

6 x 54watt T5’s
3 x lights on from 9am to Noon
6 x lights on from noon to 4pm
3 x lights on from 4pm to 9pm

Co2

2 x bubbles per sec to achieve around 30ppm Co2 saturation.
Co2 on two hours before lights on and off two hours before lights out.

Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 50
Ammonia: 0
GH: 10
KH: 7
Phosphate: 0.25
Temp: 26.5

PH

Fluctuates between 6.85 to 7.30 depending if Co2 is on.
I use a PH controller to limit PH drop with Co2 injection to 6.85

Water

25% change per week using RO water mixed with a plant targeted remineralising agent.

Filters

2 x TetraTec 1200’s
1 x 600L per hour powerhead

Clean water from the two filters is returned to the tank via 2 x spray bars which together cover the length of the tank. This combined with the Powerhead provides enough movement to make all the plants gently sway. Both filters include a carbon layer.

Substrate:

Caribsea Ecco Complete to a depth of around 3” with a fine gravel layer on top.

Ferts

Easy-Life Profito, 30ml weekly
Aqua Essentials Trace Mix Plus, 15ml 3 times weekly

Note: I am aiming to move over to dry ferts once my Profito is used up.

Fish

I only have 3 x small whiptail cats, 4 x oto's, 1 x albino plec and 3 x amano shrimps.

I have the following plants:

Echinodorus Bleheri x 6
Cryptocoryne Wendtii ‘Tropica’ x 16
Alternanthera reineckii 'Purple' (lilacina) x 8
Hygrophila polysperma “Rosanervig” x 8
Acorus Veriegatus x 6
Cyperus Helferi x 6
Moss Balls x 5

Ok that’s all the chemical/technical bits now for the problems:

The Echinodorus arrived 8 weeks in perfect condition and have been going down hill consistently since then. Most of the leaves have developed brown patches which eventually become holes leading to the disintegration of the leaf. This problem only appears to affect the Echinodorus!

http://www.phantomfisher.com/images/echinodorusProblem1.jpg

http://www.phantomfisher.com/images/echinodorusProblem2.jpg

Also the leaves of the Echinodorus have green algae on parts which eventually cause the leaf to deteriorate. The algae problem also affects the Alternanthera as well but not the other plants as far as I can tell.

http://www.phantomfisher.com/images/greenAlgaeProblem3.jpg

My other problem is green algae that is starting to cover my Mopana wood, rocks and glass.

http://www.phantomfisher.com/images/greenAlgaeProblem1.jpg

http://www.phantomfisher.com/images/greenAlgaeProblem2.jpg

That’s about it I think, all advice, suggestions and recommendations will be very much appreciated.

 

[ceg4048]

Hmm...classic CO2 starvation. Add more CO2. Additionally, Profito is basically a trace element mix and a rather weak one at that. The longer you wait to add real NPK the more problematic things will become. 300 watts of T5 only adds to the misery of the plants. If you're PO4 and NO3 values are derived from a test kit then they are not trustworthy. Adding RO water isn't really necessary as well as you might have better N and P readings if you wee using tap water.

Cheers,

 

[phantomfisher]

Thanks for that information, could you clarify a couple of point?

From a previous post you advised that I should use 4dkh in my drop checker instead of tank water, I have now done this and my Co2 reading shows around 30ppm of saturation (a perfect light green colour match) are you saying that I up the Co2 injection above the 30ppm level?

I will discontinue the Profito imeadiatly and start using dry ferts on the Estimative system, can you recommend a good mix ratio of ingredients i.e Calcium Sulphate, Pottasium Carbonate etc that I could use along with the dosing frequency? I have I think all of the chemicals required.

Would you recommend that I increase the tank illumination to all 6 x 54Watt T5's right through the illuminated period which is currently 12 hours? If not wat would you recommend?

When you mention N & P readings are you refering to Nitrate and Phosphate. The water straight out of my tap has a 50ppm Nitrate reading plus the PH is very high at 8.1, it was for this reason I decided to use RO water so that I could have a bit more control over water the quality. Are you saying that I should use the water as it is straight out of the tap?

All advise much appreciated.

 

[ceg4048]

Thanks for that information, could you clarify a couple of point?
From a previous post you advised that I should use 4dkh in my drop checker instead of tank water, I have now done this and my Co2 reading shows around 30ppm of saturation (a perfect light green colour match) are you saying that I up the Co2 injection above the 30ppm level?

Yes, a green dropchecker does not automatically mean that 30ppm of CO2 is available to the plants. It's just a reference point of CO2 reading at the specific location where the dropchecker is mounted. This is true especially in large tanks. By a huge margin, most of the CO2 we inject actually escapes immediately into atmosphere and does not reach the plant beds. You can carefully increase the injection rate or you can supplement with a liquid carbon product.

I will discontinue the Profito imeadiatly and start using dry ferts on the Estimative system, can you recommend a good mix ratio of ingredients i.e Calcium Sulphate, Pottasium Carbonate etc that I could use along with the dosing frequency? I have I think all of the chemicals required.

Well if you use tap water to do your water change, and if your tap water has a hardness of about 4 German degrees or more I can't really see any reason to use anything else. KNO3, KH2PO4, Trace mix and a few teaspoons of Epsom Salts (MgSO4) is generally all you need. It's only if you have a unique problem or if you have a specific objective in mind that you would ever need the other items you list. Why buy more things to make life more complicated? If you insist on using RO water you can easily remineralize it with GH Booster which is much cheaper than the commercial products.

Would you recommend that I increase the tank illumination to all 6 x 54Watt T5's right through the illuminated period which is currently 12 hours? If not wat would you recommend?

I absolutely, positively DO NOT recommend increasing light when there is an algal or plant health problem. More light means more problems. In fact the 6X54 Watts of lighting is more likely to be at the fundamental cause of your problems. Simply disable half of the bulbs for the time being. Increase the lighting only after the tank demonstrates good health. when you increase the light you'll then have to think about increasing everything else.

When you mention N & P readings are you refering to Nitrate and Phosphate. The water straight out of my tap has a 50ppm Nitrate reading plus the PH is very high at 8.1, it was for this reason I decided to use RO water so that I could have a bit more control over water the quality. Are you saying that I should use the water as it is straight out of the tap?

N and P refer to Nitrogen and Phosphorous. N is the salient ingredient of NO3 and P is the salient ingredient in PO4.

Worrying about pH is another fundamental cause of plant problems. It makes people do irrational things like unnecessarily wasting money on RO unit or lugging home huge heavy containers of RO water from the LFS. Neither fish nor plants care about pH. What they care about is clean water free of organic waste. In any case, if you are adding sufficient CO2 the pH will drop by about 1 unit so that wouldn't be an issue anyway.

Now, if, by some miracle, the nitrate level in your tap were were actually 50ppm, then that would be an even better reason to use tap water. Some of the algae in you tank occurs specifically because the nitrate level is too low. Plants remove nitrate from the water column so this is not a good reason to use RO because that means you now have to add nitrate back, which you haven't been doing, because Profito has no Nitrogen in it. Did you realize that Nitrogen, Carbon and Phosphorous are principal ingredients of DNA/RNA and of Chlorophyll? No N, P or C, then no DNA and that means no plant. No N, P or C also means no Chlorophyll. No Chlorophyll means no food production which means starvation. People who worry about Nitrate are doing a disservice to their plants.

There are only a few reasons to not use tap water: if you are breeding softwater fish or if the tap is known to be high in herbicide or other toxic substances that cannot otherwise be removes by standard procedures. So for example heavily chlorinated tap water requires the use of a dechlorinator, but this is easier and less expensive than RO. Some shrimp breeders feel that their tap may be too high in Copper which shrimp are sensitive to. Copper is not easily removed so this would be a legitimate reason for using RO. If you have none of these issues then there is no reason to use RO.

I use this image a lot to counter arguments against tap water. This is 100% tap water which like yours comes out from the faucet at nearly pH of 8. It's very high in all the things that we are programmed to think is bad. Neither flora nor fauna in this tank care because everyone is well fed and the water is clean by doing frequent massive water changes, often straight from the garden hose.

This is what your sword should look like, even in tap water. But this can only happen if you pay strict attention to dosing high levels of NPK+CO2 and if you forget about pH and RO. High water quality for a plant means nutrient rich water and low organic waste.

Cheers,

 

[phantomfisher]

Many thanks for your detailed reply, it will give me a good basis to get thing working correctly.