Starting to Cycle without Filter

[Mark Webb]

I have added substrate, rocks and wood to a new setup. I am going away for a few days and dont want to start up the filters before I go as I would be concerned about not being there to check for leaks. Is there any point in adding Ammonia and some bacteria to the tank, heating it and adding a small circulation pump to get the maturation process underway?

 

[jonny_ftm]

Hi,

Why add any thing at all? It would cycle normally by its own. Also, filter is not what leaks the most normally. But, I don't see a problem in running as you thought. At least, soil and water will start the cycle

 

[roadmaster]

Must be some source of ammonia for nitrifying bacteria to feed on before maturing can begin.

 

[Ed Seeley]

I wouldn't add any ammonia to a planted tank to cycle it at all. Adding the substrate, plants and other things will cycle the tank enough if you leave them for a few weeks to establish.

I wouldn't add ammonia as it seems to be one of the possible ways to encourage algae (though some ferts use it without issue) and it really isn't necessary. I definitely wouldn't add ammonia without the filter running.

Just set up your tank dry for the moment then fill it and set up the filter when you get back. Just set up the hardscape, add plants and run for a few weeks before adding any fish. If you want to be really sure your tank is ready for fish you could add some ammonia after a couple of weeks and I bet it disappears rapidly.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I use Ed's "set it up and wait method" as well, it does take a bit longer, but it does seem to give a better result.
cheers Darrel

 

[roadmaster]

Original poster made no mention of plants but I would agree that with planted tank, one could add a few small fish and not see any ammonia and or nitrites for plants would use the ammonia produced by the fish.
But adding substrate,wood, and water with filter,does not begin maturing or (cycling) without a source of ammonia for the bacteria (nitrifying) to develop. I believe this is what the original posters inquiry was.

 

[Ed Seeley]

Original poster made no mention of plants but I would agree that with planted tank, one could add a few small fish and not see any ammonia and or nitrites for plants would use the ammonia produced by the fish.
But adding substrate,wood, and water with filter,does not begin maturing or (cycling) without a source of ammonia for the bacteria (nitrifying) to develop. I believe this is what the original posters inquiry was.

This is a planted tank forum. Assuming therefore that this will be a planted tank (even if the plants haven't yet been added) then there is no point cycling a tank before adding plants and then planting it up afterwards IMO.

I would also never just plant up a tank and add a few fish. In a brand new tank this will expose those fish to ammonia levels and this should never be done IMO. Planting the tank, setting it up and leaving it for a few weeks will cycle the tank as the plants will establish and they will produce some waste (some substrates even release ammonia when new which will be processed by the plants and filter) which will get the tank ready for a few small fish. Only after a number of weeks (possibly even 4 or more) will the tank have 0 ammonia and nitrite levels, strong plant growth and be ready for fish.

 

[roadmaster]

Original poster made no mention of plants but I would agree that with planted tank, one could add a few small fish and not see any ammonia and or nitrites for plants would use the ammonia produced by the fish.
But adding substrate,wood, and water with filter,does not begin maturing or (cycling) without a source of ammonia for the bacteria (nitrifying) to develop. I believe this is what the original posters inquiry was.

This is a planted tank forum. Assuming therefore that this will be a planted tank (even if the plants haven't yet been added) then there is no point cycling a tank before adding plants and then planting it up afterwards IMO.

I would also never just plant up a tank and add a few fish. In a brand new tank this will expose those fish to ammonia levels and this should never be done IMO. Planting the tank, setting it up and leaving it for a few weeks will cycle the tank as the plants will establish and they will produce some waste (some substrates even release ammonia when new which will be processed by the plants and filter) which will get the tank ready for a few small fish. Only after a number of weeks (possibly even 4 or more) will the tank have 0 ammonia and nitrite levels, strong plant growth and be ready for fish.[/quote

I am aware that this is a planted tank forum . Please forgive me for not assuming anything.
Merely responding to question as it was stated and stand by response to same. Simply adding substrate,rocks,wood,and water does not begin maturing process.
Also aware that some substrates can produce ammonia according to content of same. Others are inert. No mention was made of particular substrate.

 

[jonny_ftm]

Hi,

Inert or no, no point to add amonia

 

[roadmaster]

Agreed. Were it me, I would set up the tank and toss a prawn in an leave it while I was away. This would produce ammonia for bacteria to feed on and begin maturation or (cycling) which is what original poster's inquiry was.

 

[Ed Seeley]

Simply adding substrate,rocks,wood,and water does not begin maturing process.

Actually it does. Simply adding water to an otherwise empty tank would start maturation. It wouldn't be a good way to do it though as it would take ages and you wouldn't get enough bacterial/plant growth to support the amount of wastes the fish would produce.

Agreed. Were it me, I would set up the tank and toss a prawn in an leave it while I was away. This would produce ammonia for bacteria to feed on and begin maturation or (cycling) which is what original poster's inquiry was.

I would set up the tank, but the last thing I would do would be to "toss a prawn in". This will add large amounts of protein to a tank which will need a lot of heterotrophic bacteria to break it down. This will generate ammonia and other organic wastes that could help trigger algae too.

Roadmaster, my point about this being a planted forum was not to have a dig at you but was to allude to the fact that I would not cycle a tank that is going to be planted in the same way I would cycle a non-planted, heavily stocked tank. In a planted tank (especially a higher-tech one) the nitrogen cycle is very different to that in an unplanted tank as the plants will take up most of the ammonia produced before nitrogenous bacteria can even get a hold of it. Therefore to set up and fishlessly cycle a tank that will eventually be planted without plants is counter-productive. You are far better to set the tank up with plants, turn the CO2 up, start dosing your ferts, add no extra source of ammonia, do large water changes and be patient. Your plants will establish quickly and look lush and healthy and in a few weeks once the tank is settled and growing nicely you will be able to slowly stock with fish. The smaller amounts of waste the tank will generate during this process (mainly waste from plants) will establish a perfectly good population of bacteria in the filter too.

 

[roadmaster]

Simply adding substrate,rocks,wood,and water does not begin maturing process.

Actually it does. Simply adding water to an otherwise empty tank would start maturation. It wouldn't be a good way to do it though as it would take ages and you wouldn't get enough bacterial/plant growth to support the amount of wastes the fish would produce.

Agreed. Were it me, I would set up the tank and toss a prawn in an leave it while I was away. This would produce ammonia for bacteria to feed on and begin maturation or (cycling) which is what original poster's inquiry was.

I would set up the tank, but the last thing I would do would be to "toss a prawn in". This will add large amounts of protein to a tank which will need a lot of heterotrophic bacteria to break it down. This will generate ammonia and other organic wastes that could help trigger algae

Would depend on the size of the tank and the prawn or shrimp. Have used this method along with raw ammonia, fish food,and or seed material or donor material from disease free existing tank to begin maturation process.

Roadmaster, my point about this being a planted forum was not to have a dig at you but was to allude to the fact that I would not cycle a tank that is going to be planted in the same way I would cycle a non-planted, heavily stocked tank. In a planted tank (especially a higher-tech one) the nitrogen cycle is very different to that in an unplanted tank as the plants will take up most of the ammonia produced before nitrogenous bacteria can even get a hold of it. Therefore to set up and fishlessly cycle a tank that will eventually be planted without plants is counter-productive. You are far better to set the tank up with plants, turn the CO2 up, start dosing your ferts, add no extra source of ammonia, do large water changes and be patient. Your plants will establish quickly and look lush and healthy and in a few weeks once the tank is settled and growing nicely you will be able to slowly stock with fish. The smaller amounts of waste the tank will generate during this process (mainly waste from plants) will establish a perfectly good population of bacteria in the filter too.

I agree with everthing you suggest with regards to setting up a planted tank and would do precisely what you suggest. I would want plants well established long before introducing fish to the tank. Have moved as many as two dozen small tetras,barbs,and other similar sized fish to newly planted tanks where plants were established and saw no detectable ammonia or nitrites.
I was not trying to be combative but simply trying to help with question as it was posted. In my humble opinion, simply adding substrate,wood,rock,and water with ,or without filter running as originaly posted,would not in my mind be meaning ful with regards to building a bacterial colony while poster was away. Opinions vary.

 

[jonny_ftm]

Putting water without a filter could lead to an algae heaven in 3-5 days, just try it, unless kept completely dim in the dark

I also now let my aquaria few months before any fish is added. Shrimps can be added while plants root as they like. My dry start trial, now immersed without any algae problems at all is conforting me to this decision.

Also, I'll never toss any organics to accelerate a cycling, it will just bring too much ammonia to be used by non existing bacteria. Just let it go slowly, the natural way

 

[Mark Webb]

Thanks guys. I'll take the advice and plant it up from start up.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
I use the "no cycle" and leave method as well. If you have healthy plant growth and some biofilm the tank is effectively cycled, I still add the fish load fairly slowly, but that has got more to do with allowing the fish to form territories etc. than the water quality.
cheers Darrel