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I don't think so co2 is a very weak acid, your ph will be lower in softer water but still have the same amount of co2 as a higher ph tank with higher KH water. I don't think anyone would use pure RO water in a tank.

Yeah I think that was the issue, it takes a while to saturate the water with co2 so with the controller knocking on and off and the delay at getting co2 back up to where you wanted to be it created a yoyo effect. Most people get co2 up to where they want to be by lights on then hold it there...

Another thing that's just dawned on me is those Cory Sterbai are probably six years old. They came from my high tech set up from home before I stripped it down and were in that from day one. Not sure how long that is in fish years but they are probably eligible for a Covid Vaccine.

Wow! Just realised that this tank has been running for nearly three and a half years. Where does the time go? I think I learned more from this tank than any previous set up. It's been from low tech, to high tech and back to low. I think the biggest thing I've took from it was not learning how to...

The £30 tank has giving me the most satisfaction though so far and not as heavy on the head as my previous exploits. If I may say so myself for a non co2 setup....

I know the feeling, the other day I was looking for my chihiros doctor device realised there was a 300 optiwhite cube with light in there that hadn't been out the box I'd forgot I bought it. The mad thing about it is I've been intending to set up a soiled cube for about two years now and have a...

The worry is though I'd probably still buy it then put it in my fishkeeping cupboard at work with all the rest of the fad stuff I've bought. A high tecker would be like a kid in a sweet shop in my lockup although my current set up is using a £20 light with a £10 filter and a tank that someone...

It's already been invented by mother nature, it's called atmospheric equilibrium. You don't get anywhere near the co2 as an injection kit but it's free. Don't tell Ada though or they'll sell a stainless version of it for a grand. It'll just be a glass or stainless bucket that hangs over your...

Could be the answer mate. I look at it from the pov that if they've never had it then they'll never miss it. Like I said earlier once the co2 is in a plant might find itself in quite a nice little co2 rich spot, as plant mass increases unless you up the flow that same plant can find itself not...

I think that's why we need forums like these to clarify the many conflicting theories out there, there should certainly be some caveats to many of the articles we come across. I think a lot of it comes down to each persons individual goals. There's a broad range of options but the problem is...

Yeah that's how I always understood it, 30 was the point fish became uncomfortable.

The reason I ended up in this post was because I'm in a similar position as @Courtneybst I've been running lowtech very easy plants for a while without issue but I've got adventurous and tried a few stems coupled with higher plant mass and a couple of medium plants which are starting to show co2...

My understanding of this from somewhere I read was that doc from tannin and humid acids binds heavy metals and makes nutrients available to plants and creates co2 as it is broken down. In the case of waste and by products other waste would enter the column which causes algae. My guess would be...

Get it whacked in a journal once all your stuff has turned up mate. Be good to watch it develop, I'll keep an eye out for it.

And your complaint is what exactly again :D:thumbup: That's a nice setup. Only thing I would say is that's quite a large tank so LC may not be cost effective depending on the depth of your pockets. However...... If you were going down the route of co2 you really need to get your flow and...

Which would be very difficult to achieve without something "extra" IMO

and before I get jumped on by the LC police, for clarity LC is one chemical with the two properties, adds a little carbon as well as an algaecide so it's the one chemical people worry about because it is toxic to humans which not may be how I explained that clearly :D

Stability is key, I would use it if you saw good results, LC products add a touch extra carbon as well as a powerful algaecide and you have a lot of control with the dosing whereas co2 is like rubbing your belly while patting your head. The stuff I use doesn't contain the powerful algaecide...

Your only worry is that plants get addicted to co2 in so far as plants will adapt to the amount they have around them, if you take it away from them after they've adapted to the new higher levels they suffer. That's why it important to keep stable levels at all times. It can be something as...

Best analogy for plant growth is building a wall, you need a brick/macros and mortar sand/micros and cement/co2 as the plant grows it needs all three at the pace you build driven by light. As light increases you build the wall faster, the secret is to never run out of any of the three, adding a...

Hi, yeah just a little bit of co2 is definitely better than nothing, what the plants need is carbon and they can get it from dissolved organic carbon in the water or from co2 that is absorbed in to the water from the atmosphere/fish respiration/bacteria. Both are very limited though and in short...

No mate that's fine, it's hard enough to dissolve co2 at the best of times so that will just prolong the contact time with the water in much the same way as a reactor. You may find that you use less co2 getting to where you want to be. Just keep an eye on the drop check and critters and adjust...

Consistency is key mate. If you have a consistent result of bps and DC colour just leave it at that for a couple of weeks and see how the plants react. If everything is going well you have fulfilled the plants needs, this may change has plants grow in or you add more, maybe have to either step...

If it's any consolation mate imo I think if people are going to use co2 the best way to do it would be to start off with a non co2 tank and easy plants then work their way up to using co2 and more advanced plants when the aquarium is biologically stable. I suspect a lot of the issues people...

Totally agree. Most people with low tech tanks are walking a fine line when it comes to co2, plant selection is probably the most important factor. It won't do any harm to all those plants to have a little bit of overhead when it comes to co2 the problems can start if you withdraw it again...

If I had the choice I would go with the brown one. Equipment in the tank takes focus away so the brown would be less obtrusive for me personally.

That would always be the case for me also. I know "prevention is better than the cure" is a bit of an over used cliche but once algae is getting to nuisance levels improving living conditions in the tank for your flora also improves the growing conditions for the now present algae. why wouldn't...

Yeah that's weird, I haven't dosed co2 for some time but when I did dc solution in big bottles was in abundance but now all the usual suppliers seem to be only doing 10ml bottles.

@Zeus. I couldn't find the discussion with Tom, if I remember right it was on Facebook somewhere. I did come across this which was pretty much along the lines of the conversation. Taken from...

I think Tom quite openly discusses it these days. Once when I was chatting with him he mentioned the amount of carbon that was made available as the product breaks down in the tank. If I find it again I'll post it. The crux of it was that at normal dosing the amount of carbon released over the...

It has nothing to do with "co2" really. I think the biggest bone of contention is the amount of carbon it adds as oppose co2, it really is a tiny amount relatively speaking. There is a lot of science going on about why you should or shouldn't use it. People tend to think the algaecide properties...

Hopefully so, it still is a review of the product just with reasons behind the review :thumbup:

You can use it in an either or situation mate. Hanging on the rim also causes other issues I mentioned earlier where knowing what co2 levels are close to the surface isn't much use either. The original shape DC's are that shape for a reason, when filled to half way up the bulb at its widest...

A lot of this will come down to the surface area mentioned earlier on in the thread. I once put three types in one tank just out of curiosity, I was testing with multiple DC's to see the co2 in different areas, to be fair the blau type you have there for me wasn't meant to stick on the side of...

Keep an eye on the tropica specialised, although it does contain n and p it is in minute quantities. You tend to find you need to use quite a lot of it to get some decent n values. Sent from my BBB100-2 using Tapatalk

Anything that increases the distance between the impeller housing and injection point of the gas will reduce the chances of a buildup I would say. Probably worthwhile putting the inline diffuser as far up the inlet pipe as possible so it has the full length of the tubing to travel. @Zeus. also...

Possibly Dave, co2 does tend to make rubber and plastic parts quite brittle.

The biggest issue I would suggest would be the gas collecting inside the impeller housing rather than the canister body When you take the canister apart even after it has stood for ten minutes the impeller is still warm to the touch. The impeller is self cooling and lubricating in so far as it...

I try whenever I can to keep equipment out of the tank purely for aesthetics. Sometimes people need the function though. A lot of people photo their tanks with equipment removed then put it back in to function. For instance the Twinstar things, eheim surface skimmers and koralia pumps etc...

Or, just use an internal filter, then you only have the tank itself to worry about. Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk

Ahh ok mate. To be fair I think the only important bit is the "bi-carbonate" as long as the solution is 4KH doesn't really matter. They sell potassium bicarbonate on ebay, I get some for raising my very soft tank water. 4KH solutions are so cheap though so hardly worth diy'ng them I find. Are...

I find with the Bazooka the mist is that fine by the time it gets down into the canister travelling through the pipe work its nigh on non existent. Not all of the bubbles get in there either. I don't have issues with it collecting or the filter burping although I have heard some people have, not...

What is it you're trying to do Jay?

I combine using a bazooka which is the finest mist I've experienced using all the various atomisers on offer and keeping all the equipment in one corner in so far as the intake, lily pipe outlet and bazooka. I have them set up with the bazooka under the intake so it can grab some of this mist...

Meniscus haha just googled it, that's what I was trying to say. If you keep a Meniscus on the DC the scum will keep moving past.

Yeah that should do it pal, it's just so it doesn't get trapped. Mine does it now and again, thing is when the water level is up inside the DC the scum has nowhere to go and just sits until next time you take it out.

Yeah it's just organic scum mate with some minerals. If you didn't have surface agitation it would probably build up on the water surface as well. I use either a syringe or turkey baster and just blow bubble into the DC with it until it is totally full of air, the current will carry away the...

There's gel that you can put in bubble counters instead of water I've seen before to slow the whole thing down so you can count high bubble rates. I was once working in a hospital and they were scrapping those things that measure o2 rates. You know the ones with the ball in. Wondered why...

You could put a Santa Claus Hat on it and maybe wrap it in a bit of tinsel until next year then change that to a lamp shade :D All jokes aside though, I'm assuming you don't have a cabinet or it's too big for it? Maybe knock something up beside the cabinet that looks like it's meant to be there...

Probably why I have enough 2nd hand fishkeeping equipment to start my own shop ;)

Thanks ED, I wish I could explain this in a scientific way with some cations and ions involved in it to make me look more knowledgeable than I am but the best I've got is within that first 2 to 3 months I just don't think the plants or setup is "ready" :rolleyes: for getting bombarded with loads...

The world is waiting for a specialist filter designed for planted users with a built in heater and co2 reactor. My money and Dragon's Den is waiting.

It's also a dynamic situation I find so not just a case of marrying up your lighting levels with the gas, plant mass also needs taken into account which inevitably increases with the addition of co2. The bubble counter really tells you only one thing and that's just give you a rough idea of how...

These days I aim for graphic 3 but with growth rate from graphic 1 :D You just need to make the yellow light graphic sit nicely on on top growth rate 1 ;) I don't really have the time to be dealing with graphic 3 and I find the vast majority of plants will do fine with reasonable lighting but...

This was posted a while back which may shed some light on it, as suggested the lighting is the ultimate driving force behind everything, plants are only going to grow as fast as the light makes them or tries to until you hit a point where the light is driving them beyond their nutrient and co2...

Same here, about 1bps on 50ltrs. When I watch the bubbles from the bazooka travelling around the tank I can actually watch them disappear. The flow from the lily pipe sends them round in a circular motion. By the time they get round the back of the tank then travel around the front they lose...

I like the Tropica 3 in 1, very underrated IMO and has quite a fine mist. The Bazooka definitely has the finest mist I've came across so far,when just cleaned its like smoke at times. Mines also positioned right under the intake but the flow of the water still carries most of the bubbles away...

The filter I use is a Tetra canister I got for free off someone who was shutting down and giving up, nothing lost I guess. I've done this for about two years and had no issues, only thing that did happen was the plastic impeller part came away from the magnet at one point and started rattling...

I think the omly issue is co2 can make plastic brittle so may damage the filter or seals and can cause the filter to "burp" I don't inject a lot so don't suffer from the burping. As for damaging the filter only time will tell I guess. Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk

My understanding is the bacteria aren't affected by the co2. Some people inject directly I to the inlet. Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk

What I've started doing with mine is placing the bazooka atomiser under the filter intake. They cling to the sponge and fully dissolve, some undoubtedly get sucked in but it hasn't been a problem.

That kind of thing, can and ferment bottle on A joined through Y piece and into bell with an open/shut valve on B

I don't suppose it would be much more hassle than say dosing ferts everyday. Delivering co2 through a pressurised system comes with its own set of hassles. Passive co2 can work out well in certain conditions. I guess because essentially the bell works in much the same way as a drop checker in...

I tend to find that adding a small bit of co2 to a tank that doesn't need it produces some great results. If you keep the lights down and pick the right plants you could get one and switch to DIY when the can runs out using yeast and sugar with the bell you already have. Buying the refill cans...

No mate deionised water technically doesn't have a PH, in fact, reliable ph readings are difficult to obtain in very soft water at the best of times. Like I said though do your tests and use the DC but don't get too bogged down in it, it's just not that accurate. Plant health is a better...

Both methods of co2 checks at our disposal come with caveats so some discretion needs applied mainly are fish gasping and are the plants showing any signs that co2 isn't right like holes in leaves etc. The drop checker is probably the best way I would say but you have to bare in mind it is only...

I had a similar thing well back in the day zozo before I found out about Indian Almond leaves etc. My water comes out the tap with virtually nothing in it. The only stuff in there is actually added by the water board so zero carbonate. I tried using a waterlife product if I remember called...

What was that graph Darrel often puts up where DOC converts to co2 as the PH lowers? Is that related maybe? Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk

Does adding any acid to any any base not result in a reaction that produces co2? So if you have water that is high in KH and you add something acidic.... Again, apologies for my GCSE Chemistry :shy:

I guess that depends on whether you run a tank that is just bordering on being pushed for carbon and the 10% could make a difference plus the other benefits I mentioned earlier. I guess more water changes and stroking your leaves could sort that with a reduction in light would achieve the same...

Which is probably the bit Tom can't talk about Ian.

Nor me Bro, but if you fancy your chances... " And these are the calculations for people who wonder how much carbon is there really in Excel... Espen Fjellheim/ Using Glut as a proxy; chemical formula C5H8O2, atomic weight of molecule = 100 (5x12[C], 8x1[H], 2x16[O]). Glut is 60% carbon by mass...

I think the last case I heard in its defence Ed was that the algaecide properties which it definitely possess meant that less spores in the column gave less competition for nutrients and the plant leaves were kept relatively algae free giving better exchange across the leaves which could be true...

Sorry if I sounded a bit negative there :) but I have more of a simplistic approach to plant keeping and in life in general. Just seems at times that anything that results in a carbon molecule being released these days manufacturers want to cash in on it without any decent explanations why. My...

It's a contentious issue for sure which does seem bizarre at times but at least we are discussing it at some length. You would have thought at some point enough was known about LC and its benefits or not as the case may be but even people at the top of their game still seem to be either...

So if humic acid and DOC are beneficial to plant growth would just adding Almond leaves not just achieve the same thing for a fraction of the price with the bonus of the mild sterilising affect and heavy metal binding with tannins not do the same thing?

Very true, there's a theory that using glute kills off algae spores in the water therefore leaving more nutrients available to the plants as well rather than the slight increase of available carbon unless OFC dosing higher than the recommended values in which case the slight increase in...

I'm not sure of the exact benefits, I've used it in the past and still spot dose with it these days. I think the main thing people take issue with is the use of the phrase liquid carbon. I keep seeing the same breakdown of the chemicals involved and the resulting net production of carbon the...

There seems to be a lot of hating going on lately for "liquid carbon" unless it's just the various groups and forum I frequent. Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk

Let's be honest here brother, the real reason they get griped is because the tank gets more attention than they do [emoji6] If I had a pound for every time I got it about my tank being gleaming while there's jobs wanting doing in the house I would treat you to a reg set myself haha Sent from...

Ever fancied the Citric Acid Method? Something I was looking into at one point. You can get the kit for £13 pounds on ebay and you already have the bells. That way you can just switch it on when you need to top up. Then again, I suppose that defeats the purpose of diy I guess, like I said...

Look forward to seeing the DC results. What are you using for the "bell"? In the video I get the next video play-list popping up right over the top of it so I can't see what it is.

I would imagine using the bell and keeping it full would be a pretty stable way of keeping the levels pretty similar. Maybe not the most effective at diffusing with not much of the co2 surface area exposed to water. Probably more problematic if using a diffuser with differing rates of co2 being...

I find letting it completely ferment out and clear, syphon off, add some pottasium sorbate and mix with any fruit juice of your choice is the best technique. I think they call it hooch in prison. Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk

Yes, additional co2 will improve plant growth, that's a given. The issue is co2 in like a drug to plants in all senses of the word. If you don't want to "complicate" things I'll just say rubisco and leave the googling to you if that's what you want. In a nut shell though plants adapt to...

or would it? that's a 4gallon or 18.9 litre batch so that would have 4kg of sugar in. So it would take 4kg of sugar to create 1kg of co2??? Where's the science people at when you need them. Wish I never started this now, I won't be able to sleep now.

Actually, thinking about it, which I shouldn't really :D The maths isn't all that complicated but curiosity got the better of me. Very, very rough science here but going off that graph to reach a specific gravity of 1080 to produce a 10% volume alcohol of wine when fully fermented to dry you...

Definitely pal. Good maintenance and flow like your tank has goes a long way and sometimes with moderate enough lighting you can get away without co2 even with plants that are supposed to like co2. Even with everything on point a tank can be just on the edge and that little drop of co2 is just...

I've no doubt it does mate. Any additional source of co2 dissolved into the water will improve the growth without a doubt. I was more meaning if you start buying equipment to keep co2 stable like heaters or the stuff I posted. Co2 equipment is very cheap these days as is gas. I pay £15 pound for...

Therein lies the problem mate, unless you already have the equipment to hand you start getting into the territory of a gauge and bottle. I wouldn't try and use DIY on anything over say 50 ltrs. You could probably pick up a gauge with needle valve for Under £50 and a fire extinguisher which would...

Just been thinking back there. I remember something about an over vigorous ferment causing a bad taste trait to certain wines - can't remember what that was now. However the solution was to have a slower, steadier ferment and the way to get round this was to mix up the sugar liquor so that it...

Just to add, keeping two bottles mid anaerobic means the second bottle quickly pushes out the air from the other bottle after you've opened it so tends to get going with the old yeast pretty much straight away rather than waiting 24 hours. You can buy a ready made kit off ebay which takes two...

Also coming back to my wine making days, you can buy sherry yeast which tolerates higher alcohol volumes. The problem is with maintaining a steady ferment rate. The process goes through three stages, aerobic which is quite slow, anaerobic which is vigorous and the tail end which is slow as the...

Sometimes happens with high bubble rates and solenoids. Try not filling it all the way to the top, sometimes if water gets pushed into the tubing when it first clicks it it can suck the remainder of the water up with it.

Not sure about the PH drop either, you would have thought that if there's 30ppm (for arguments sake) there when lights go on or 30ppm is there 24/7 it should make no difference as long as there's enough in the lighting period. The plants are just wanting co2 I don't think they are particularly...

My understanding is that increased o2 can result in increased co2 via filter production. I think I came across this when someone was explaining how increasing o2 can actually create more carbon through co2 than liquid carbon can produce carbon at standard dosing. That being the case increasing...

Co2 Supermarket have Refill Adapters but I can't see a hose for a disposable bottle so you would probably also need a further adapter. Cost is starting to rock up now though and unsure of how safe it is so maybe worth biting the bullet and either getting a Din477 regulator and changing to fire...

Problem is with checking flow in a tank that's just hardscape is the plants are going to change everything and it's a dynamic situation. As it grows in you may find the flow setup you had no longer fits the current condition of the tank and may need a little tweaking. Rather than food dyes etc...

Lighting is the key mate. Keep it down and select the right plants and a lot can be achieved without the need for co2 Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk

Just regarding the clear canister, the eheim classic is opaque and you could maybe remove the impeller and just use it as a pass through or maybe you could cockle something up using the water purifiers that are available like in the pic. Sent from my STH100-2 using Tapatalk