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From the blurb on their site you would need 2. I would suggest that the luminaire above a 125 would be about 45cm and their PAR reading is 15 for the 50mm. Seems pretty low PAR to me. I wouldn't advise fitting a retail LED unit within a hood. The casing on LED units is not just for...

If you are adding Easy Carbo I'm not sure why you are asking about the siesta. A bit confused by that unless it is just so that the light is one when you are about.

I have my doubts about those tube replacement LEDs. I don't really get why (other than a sales point) they would get LEDs and then try and use them like a flourescent when the strength of LED is being able to spread all the light out rather than confine it to a small linear area but that is...

Your 44W will be fine as long as it is a good unit with good LEDs and good lenses :) I would equate Quality Leds at circa 1.25 to 1.5 x T5, more for T5HO. So 1WPG of LED = 1.25 to 1.5WPG of T5. And maybe much closer to the 1.5 of T5HO as T5HO is not as efficient per watt as T5NO. Are the...

Most systems are tuned to a low - mid light setup. They just perpetuate (or don't deny) the high light method to sell lights.

I have long laughed at that company beginning with a D and their suggestion of a siesta. Not for the reasoning behind a siesta, just their reasoning of imitating tropical thunderstorms which is laughable in terms of being anything other than trying to imitate a natural occurrence. In terms of...

That graph is from the very old Fitch family article and is not correct. Amano does not use the amounts of light that they stated he did. That article was one that always used to be linked to by people harping on about needing 4WPG, 6WPG etc over tanks. If you notice it isn't until 100USG...

Its not too bad but I would say that is a very pessimistic outlook. I would suggest that 1 watt per 4 litres is fine for most easier plants (mosses, ferns, anubias etc) 1 watt per 2 litres is fine for most plants I agree. You can go pretty low with the easier to grow plants. Down to 0.5WPG...

I use the same as Sam in my cloakroom:

Thats what I was led to believe. That LED produces virtually all of its light in the visible range with next to no actual UV or IR.

I thought LEDs virtually eliminated the problem with UV rays that you get with normal lighting? Sure I saw some info on that years ago.

yes. Is a standard UK bayonet fitting. You can use it BUT it is designed to light as a normal household bulb in all directions. You woul be better finding a 'downlighter' style bulb rather than a globe

The next generation from the one pictured there are better using 1W and 3W LEDs. The replaceable optics are 'not so' replaceable though as they are shallower than any of the ones you find available and are too narrow. however removing the bottom panel that houses the optics and replacing with...

Indeed. Personally as you are using 10 x 10W LEDs I would stick with that. I think you have to be really confident with your work to do more wiring. That or seperate it into several series rather than one string. Fault finding is easier that way.

This is subjective really. A single point source will shoot further because you have the whole '2100' lumens in one point source where the others are apart. That is if it was a single vs 3. I would suggest however if you were only doing a 9W version for a Nano which we would assume is pretty...

Yes, in general CO2 at the right ppm will drop the Ph by 1 point or so. It isn't as good as using a drop checker with 4dKH but it is quite a normal reading. Similarly my tap water comes out at 7.4 and if I leave it 24 hours it rises to 8.2 after the CO2 has gassed off. What you have heard...

My experimentation tends to veer towards what Flygia says. I have zero problems with the LEDs. Even those black ones. Not had a single failure with them. Like I say the only problems I have had have been with drivers. I wouldn't call it experimentation anymore. The first one was but since...

TBH I tend not to bother with 'warranty' on low value stuff from china. Sometimes they send you another, sometimes they say they will but don't and sometimes....you get the gist. lol. The drivers that all failed as you can imagine are unbranded and loads of different sellers on ebay. They are...

Troglodyte - I agree with what you are saying. I was just answering the OP original post and the follow ups that suggested it might be that 'Cree' or 'Bridgelux etc were fine and that maybe cheaper ones weren't. That's the nature of the china cheapys though. The LEDs IME are reliable. I...

I did read your comment. Maybe I phrased mine poorly. I agree that a cree or bridgelux will outperform these China cheapies. I was just trying to say that any high power LED will outperform Flouro W for W even without lenses. My first setup had no lenses and was noticeably better in terms of...

I don't think it is that important which LEDs you use. I use the cheapo luxeon copies from China and they do fine in terms of penetration. I only use just over 1WPG and the are normally set 2ft from substrate (14inches water depth) and have no problems. I don't know why any retailer would try...

That 12W = 175W article has come up before. Do a search on it. I put quite a few details down on that thread but will re-hash a brief flavour of it in a sec. I've long said that many of the retail LED units miss the advantages of LEDs. Using a pizza as an example Do you spread all the little...

Just run it with 1.1WPG for a while and see how things go. With pressurised the 1.1WPG might surprise you anyway. Not that it will grow healthier plants at all but if you want to speed growth up later on then upgrade the lighting. AC

3WPG should be fine with CO2. On the light in water aspect. I would suspect that there may be a point where this light 'increase' over through the air slows, comes to zero and then reverses. Maybe to do with pressure or any number of variables. light substrates may reflect light upward. A...

I would suggest that WITH CO2 addition 0.5WPG is fine. You don't say (or I didn't see) how big your tank is. Without CO2 addition then a little more light is needed. AC

Indeed. that ties in with the article linked to below where it shows the luxeon 3W light intensity when new and then a projected intensity after 11 years. Suggests a 30% drop off but of course no-one knows the reality. I would suggest even the manufacturers/inventors don't know the reality...

Lol. If you are using Dennerle tubes and then follow Dennerle's advice then they may last half as long........ ..Why? they warble on about having 2 seperate photoperiods (like the siesta) to emulate tropical thunderstorms. lol. Therefore that means you turn the light on/off twice a day...

Some of these links may appear to be rants rather than debates but they do have some really interesting detail and not just from me either :) If you like reading this is a good thread. You'll end up thinking what a moaning old G** I am though. lol http://www.barrreport.com/showthread.ph ...

On the replacement times it is 5% dropff for flouros on electroic ballasts over the first 40% of life. Then you have to weigh up how optimistic the manufacturers 'tube life' is. A couple of years ago I went through all this so I'll dig up the info but the statement I made was something like...

Tom has seen a plasma so thats more than me :) I heard about them but never seen them or heard any more. However look how quickly TVs have gone from increasing in sizes and from Plasma to LCD to LED. LED TVs just suddenly appeared from nowhere. and when it appeared LCD had only just become...

4-5 hours should be fine Get some cold cathode moonlights £10 and twist connect wires to old mobile phone charger. That will alow you viewing the rest of the time without affecting anything. AC

Just for you guys to see this sort of unit in action and also for you to see how such small things make a huge difference, here is a picture log of many PAR readings of the same tank from top, centre and bottom of the tank. Notice how much a difference there is in the reading just by having the...

The cheap one in the post above is not a PAR meter. It does say light but it's not really light if you know what I mean. probably a lux meter which is lumens which is no use to man nor beast. It should actually be called a 'brightness meter'. Sam's is the real thing. Quantum meter. However...

Pics aren't much use Sam. We already know LED is less lumens per watt than flouro and therefore 'appears' less bright. What we need are PAR readings. lol Thats the LED strength far superior PAR WIthout blinding. AC

are these using standard LEDs and not proper high power ones? From the pics seems an awful lot of LEDs in each tube? Also from the wattage comparison 'equivalent' they don't look too good to me. I would expect the 'equivalent' to T8 in terms of output to be much higher than they are stating if...

Nope you will still be aiming for the same ppm no matter what the light. Just the plants uptake more and therefore you add more CO2 and nutrient are increased to hit the same target. What I am saying is that with highlight, you add more CO2 and ferts. In many cases the 'deadspots' become...

Well I am one of those who says it ain't the light ;) Think of all the old problems with P and there being a false correlation. What I would suggest is yes when you up the light certain plants tart to thrive however, Consider your statement above. Yes you boosted the light. So it is the...

You can take many things that ADA (or any other manufacturer) says with a pinch of salt. As long as your tank is not in direct sunlight then you can set your photoperiod when you want. You in theory control when 'noon' is. From the way the statement has been phrased (in your post above) I...

lol @ Ceg. Nothing for me to add here as Ceg has already taken the words I would've used :) Good advice as always from the professor :) AC

This regularly comes up on barrreport. Tom then shows Alternanthera and a few others growing bright red under low light and in shaded areas :) AC

I agree with all of the above except for that T8 is 'much less' light than T5. A teeny bit in reality. A lot les than T5HO BUT the advantage is that you don't get high intensity 'hotspots' due to the lower light per inch and therefore to match the T5HO you get more tubes and spread the light...

Garuf. I think while the PAR results are impressive to say the least the problem I am having with people's PAR readings at the mo is that they are not to my eyes substantial enough. What I would like to see is for each application a huge amount of tests. Meaning that I see a lot of PAR tests...

Cabinet is veneered: http://www.greenneedle.co.uk/2Cabinet1.html TBH the lighting is where it is because that is the best range for the lights and I also prefer the look of it hanging :) All to do with spread coverage reducing hotspots etc but that's all a bit in depth to clutter this thread...

One last little improvement on this project is the hanging 'equipment. The unit was hanging by 2 chains that were linked to D ring on the luminaire and then up to some hooks in the shelf above. This wasn't the nicest looking piece of kit but has sufficed the past 18 months. My wife had...

Just a snippet from my website r.e. the MkII version of my DIY LED setup. Although I've called it MkII what I have done is in fact to make a new design of the unit and then transfer exactly the same electronics into it. Prettier and darned cool IMO ;) So pictures below but first an...

Remember me saying this? Yes me ;) Whilst I still believe it to be true I have used lenses in the MkII version of my luminaire. I'll add updates of this soon. Looks the business :) More like a super hi tec piece of cool decor than a practical part :) Garuf I don't think it would be plant...

I won't be cheeky :) Although we know PAR as a lighting measurement that isn't what the PAR on that light means. You won't find many (if any) bulbs detailing PAR measurements. Its just not useful to the majority and of the minority who want to know, most won't have a clue what the result...

In short........... ............that someone (to be polite :) ) may have gotten a little confused :lol: They are missing the real point here. Remember watts = power, lumens = brightness. Neither = light. What we are after is light. What may have confused 'someone' is that the electronic...

To add to what George says. the electronic ballast WILL make tubes last much longer before they drop off. It starts the light much more efficiently so where on a magnetic ballast a tube may need replacing after 1-2 years on a magnetic ballast it may last 3+ years before it drops off.

So if the Plant Pro is 7400K and the Freshwater is 7500K what is the difference? If it is pinkish as stated above then it is most definately not 7400K as stated on the site linked to!!! From a quick scour over a site I know which stocks a lot of Arcadia it seems that in their T8 section they...

the freshwater and original tropical are still being sold but have been rebranded for some stores. I think the freshwater is now called 'natural daylight' or something like that. Some stores still have them by their original names. No idea why this happened. The Plant Pro plus is a...

As a guide the Original Tropical was 4000K and very very pink veering towards the very dark and not very bright (to our eyes ;) ) That never stated the K either :) AC

If you are running 3 strings of 7 x 3W then a 24V source is what you need for each string. If you are going the pcb route (no idea on how they work ;) ) then you would need a 72V source. Maybe someone with electrical knowledge can confirm if these are viable. Laptop power supplies etc.: 24V...

Be careful using timers on fluorescent lights!!! Always best to use the mechanical ones because some units are not compatible with digital ones I think due to the digital timer using some of the power!!! Can't remember all the bumf was many moons ago I first researched it. lol. I use some of...

Not been on the forums much for a long while but thought I would belatedly 'butt in' on a few additions to this thread ;) Yes the unit is now 15 months old and still running perfectly. No LEDs been changed at all. Very satisfied I wouldn't change anything but I would add something. A...

I think you answered your own question there Aaron ;) This is also why the spectrum arguments often fall down when put to the test. A 'full spectrum' light is all that is needed really. Pink (4000K) or Daylight (5500K+) will all have enough of each in them and therefore we see that plants do...

depends what scape you are setting up really. The recent tests on barrreport are showing that 1 x full length T5HO are delivering the same PAR as the ADA Iwagumis are using!!! 50PAr at substrate 150 at the surface. 2 T5HO from other tests show 100/300 so double the single one and this was...

T5 are the same wattage for the length (roughly) as T8 as are T10 etc. There is no difference in reality between the wattages and the lengths. They guys above are talking about T5HO which is more powerful per length and CF also use bent T5HO lamps. As per the original question the 40W starter...

No I am saying that T5HO manufacturers often state a life of 35000 hours which at 8 hours a day would mean it would last for 4375 days and that is 12 years. However manufacturers will give the most attractive figures possible and in the latter years the tube will not be giving out much...

The 6 month to a year 'rule' is a long standing one but was based on the technology of the time which was T8 or older and using magnetic (electric) ballasts (The ones with the seperate circular cylinder starter) If using an electronic (not electric) ballast as all T5HO do then this rule is...

Your T8s are the same as 'energy saving' lamps. They are only called 'energy saving' because they use less electricity to produce the same light as an incandescent. In essence they use as much power for 11W as a linear fluorescent on an electronic ballast. Restrike is the major issue for our...

I got em off ebay a long time ago. lol maybe 2 years now :) They can be bought direct in the UK. Not for £1 like Tesco or poundland but if you buy bulk (example 12 lights in the house then buy a box of 12 etc) then they may strike a deal :)...

I don't use the ones from the shops. I bought 10 6500K ones off ebay. They are much brighter than the 2700K ones. The usual mess up by UK. lol. US tends to sell in higher K ratings anyway!!! AC

You answered your own question ;) It is an illusion. Pink lights look less bright to the human eye but will more than likely produce similar 'actual' light. Humans see white/Green light better. This is why I question the reasoning behind all the household spirals/dual bends that are comonly...

tin the solder plate first. Just a dab on top, then tin the wire, press and hey presto. AC

what I did was hold the wire to the solder plate and then press down with the soldering iron. The minute I felt it move I pulled it off. probs talking half a second for each one. That is with an old soldering iron that is virtually shwing all the copper too. lol Ones I had trouble with I...

edit - sorry double post. Internet is lagging today

Not sure why there are only 6. Here's a how to journal where he also has 6 :). Pity he never gave me a mention in the journal for telling him what to do but there ya go :lol: http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=265546 AC

Indeed. I should clarify however that I do not have nor have access to a PAR meter. My input is from observation only with no way to prove anything. Others are doing the actual testing and there are several people all comparing lights they have with what they can borrow and then trialling...

A better model of calculation based on actual PAR values is being worked as we speak but may take a few months to assimilate as the input is coming from many sources. It will not be highly accurate because it will of course not be able to take into account differences between ballasts...

No idea but thats nature :) At the end of the day you bought a luminaire. The manufacturer sent you a chart showing you what the tubes do. You will replace the tubes eventually. AC

http://www.aquaessentials.co.uk/index.p ... cts_id=839

Re: What would you do? Plan A or B, simplified Nope. If all T5s were HO there would be no such thing as HO :lol: There are T8(NO-Normal output) and T8HO just as there are T5(NO) and T5HO Like I put on the previous post the 863/849mm T5 is 21W whereas the HO version is 39W. T5HO is basically...

Re: What would you do? Plan A or B, simplified Are we talking 2 x T8s versus 1 T5HO? If so the T8s would be better IMO If it is 2 x T8s versus 2 x T5 then the T5s would be better. Same if it is 1 T8 v 1 T5 AC

different retailers use different measurements :) Have to be careful We are talking the same tube here ;) 849mm tube, 863mm inc. pins AC

Still fresh from correcting this ;) on TFF earlier today :) 39W is T5HO. T5 is actually 21W As an example of 863mm (ish) tubes: T12 - 900mm - 30W T8 - 900mm - 30W T5 - 863mm - 21W T5HO - 863mm - 39W Some choices there but I guess you will be after T5 or T5HO so you don't have to do a...

http://www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=265546

You have to weight the pros with the cons really. Like with everything we look at the price and try to do things cheaper, then cheaper then cheaper still. Trouble is always focus on one thing and forget everything else. Namely to use LED is more expensive (purchase wise) by a large margin BUT...

The after a year isn't so much marketing hype, more of obsolete info really. Unless you have a T8 system that runs off magnetic ballast(s) which are easily identifiable by the cylindrical, replaceable starters and that they 'flicker' start then forget the 'year' thing. The magnetic starter...

Re: Check out these LED panels! I'm thinking of using them over The guy says freshwater tank but it is it planted? There's no doubt that any LED setup can be as good as other lighting appearance wise but we are talking about wether they supply enough 'real' light for use in planted tanks /...

It will be fine for the 'low light' plants. It doesn't look bright because it has an 'original tropical' 4000K lamp in it. If you were to replace it with a 6500K then it would look much brighter to you but may not necessarily supply more 'usable' light. Remember brightness is a human...

Re: Check out these LED panels! I'm thinking of using them over From all the reading I was doing the normal LEDS don't cut the mustard :( I would question anyone that is stating in their advert (the second one): 'Gives 100W of light for just 15W' AC

I think if you have the cash to experiment then go for it. I can't say wether they are any good or not but what we are trying to achieve with the high power LEDs is spread whereas these bulbs (if I am thinking rightly) has several LEDs which defeats what our aims were!!! as they will force you...

I've always liked the colour from the Arcadia Freshwater. Never liked the colour from the Original Tropical. I was using a Realux pink light until recently which was really good but I was still using the Arcadia Freshwater with it. Expensive compared to the 'non aquarium' tubes but if you...

I don't use the lense/collimators at all now. I have the bare LED die siliconed to the hole. I have also chopped the stand 'seats' off so the unit is now directly resting on the surface. Wasn't cutting the mustard with the smaller tank. If I were you I would lower yours, doesn't look...

From when I was working I have mine come on @ 3pm and go off at midnight. I do have Cold Cathode moonlights too which if I were to work again I could time to come on in the morning and not affect anything :) Maybe some basic light setup like this would be the answer for you AC

That small a difference is fine. Just don't get a 100W ballast and try and power a 20W tube with it. May not burn out but will not last very long. AC

From reading the last post am I right in thinking you are using a 'yeast' setup on a 217Ltr tank? I've read from the beginning and notice you have problems with Rosanervig staying green!!! This is not a light issue. Mine was turning pink and all leaves had white veins under 0.6WPG T8 back in...

I'm not absolutely sure of this part. Something to do with penetration I think but no techy expert. PAR is a measure of radiation whereas Lumens are a measure of light output. PAR measures active radiation at the point of 'receipt'. PUR will measure usable radiation at the point of receipt...

People are learning not to assume so much in planted tanks these days. Many people make a couple of changes and assume one of them made the difference when in fact it was something else. You have added more light and therefore are assuming the light was the problem, however you increased CO2...

James - I agree on the WPG rule. It is there because it is easy to understand and there is no other way for the average hobbyist to get a gauge on what they need. Going into PAR means buying equipment and is not possible to convert into a guide for someone without a PAR meter because there are...

Clive is on the same wavelength as me (although I get battered posting this idea on other forums. lol) T5 is much more intense. The PAR readings (which i cannot measure nor can most) will be much much higher. It's very hard to convince people when the long standing belief is carpets need high...

neither are very good CRI!!! The first very bad. AC

I wasn't overly happy with it when I did it really. I thought it looked great as your run of the mill office ornament but when you actually look at the substrate it was a case of crazy bright in the centre and no very bright on the outer limits etc. It is good now and I think the glosso will...

Some more pics: These pics do not compare the LED without the lense properly to the lensed one because I am still using the lense holder as it holds the LED nicely in place. Also there is the 6mm acrylic so basically instead of the Lense 'restricting' the spread it is now free to bounce around...

Yeah I think Tom's said that they lose a bit at the beginning and then level out after that degrading slowly. A bit like Depreciation on a car but not as extreme I suppose ;) AC

Ceg. You already know I pay no attention to Lumens etc and know all about PAR/PUR being the defining measurement. Yu also know that I know about CRI/K being virtually pointless. ;) I am not arguing any of that. I've said the very same thing for long enough. lol What I am trying to point out...

http://www.aboutlightingcontrols.org/ed ... -bay.shtml Sorry I copied the title instead of the link in the first post. lol This came about because in a post on another forum someone suggested the following to me which I looked at and thought, that is wrong and went about doing some research...

This is quite an interesting page I found on the subject of lighting very high ceilings but the interesting point is way down on the page. It suggests that unlike all other fluorescents T5HO uses a 'programmed start' electronic ballast and will only degrade (lumenwise 5-6%) over its lifetime...

24" 18W tubes are T8 not T5