120cm Nature Aquarium

[ChrisD80]

And a full tank shot:
The java ferns are Microsorum Pteropus 'Narrow', which were added to the scape several weeks ago now. Health so far is much better than the 'Trident' fern which was part of the original planting.

Note: Aquaray Grobeam light used for photographic purposes. Not used for plant growth at present.

 

[ChrisD80]

Update:

Happy to report there are very little if any diatoms now. It makes a massive physiological difference to me not to be confronted by the brown sludge any more! And no BGA seen for a good few days. Just tiny traces of BBA here and there on Hygrophila pinnatafida leaves, which I am cutting off.

I hope I am not calling success too early, but it feels overall to be in a much better place now.

Not sure what to conclude in terms of cause and effect. The improvement may be due to one or more of these factors:
- thorough twice weekly maintenance, including 80% water changes
- passing through a phase. I understand that diatoms are a phase common to new set ups. Fingers crossed that phase is now over. For the record it’s been 11weeks since original planting and first switch on of the lights.
- increased Amano shrimp population. Over 20 in there now hard at work
- results showing in time from continued application of lower light, increase flow and tweaked CO2 / fertiliser levels
- lower temperatures

Anyway thank you very much to all who have offered advice on my journey to this point. You have really helped me turn things around.

Looking ahead I have purchased a few new plant species to try out, which are acclimating in their pots for the moment. And hoping to add more but still finding ‘out of stock’ on most plants across many of the UK online shops.

And will hopefully soon be adding in the fish which have been quarantining in the old aquarium for several weeks now. I have been holding off their introduction because I can presently avoid feeding so the shrimp and single Otto are more hungry for algae. Also somewhat nervous of the new fish jumping out with no top on the aquarium.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisD80]

Happy to report pretty much no visible algae for several weeks now, and I have relaxed back to one water change per week.

Several new plants acclimating in their pots at the moment to be planted out soon.
- Plenty of Anubias, (it’s interesting to compare the different small varieties e.g. mini, petite, bonsai in the flesh next to each other when you have purchased them based on the website descriptions)
- couple of Bucephalandra to replace those I lost initially

I have also bought some lava rock and broken it in to small pieces, to which I intend to secure the Anubias and Buce as well as moss trimmings. I hope the roots of the plants and the moss can gain a better purchase on the rough porous surface than they have managed on the petrified wood stone I have used so far.

And some stems to improve the back right hand side:
- Rotala rotundifolia
- limnophila hippuridoides
- heteranthera zosterifolia (1-2 grow already planted)

Cheers
Chris


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Wolf6]

Got any new pics for us? We're curious to see the progress!

 

[ChrisD80]

Two additional new plants I forgot to mention:
- Lilaeopsis brasiliensis
- Microsorum pteropus ‘petite’

Some pics to follow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisD80]

Some FTS, as you might expect it looks a mess at the moment...

The back right corner that I am not too happy with. Mostly Rotala Vietnam and a few stems of Limnophila Sessiliflora:

The Heteranthera that was planted maybe 10 days ago and is about 4x original size. Not yet been trimmed. I believe this can grow fast and become unruly but wanted to give it a go. Corvus Oscen on YouTube has some of this ‘star grass’ which is very compact and well behaved that I would love to replicate, but may need to up the light levels.

The branch going top right to bottom left has the Montagnei moss which fared badly during the heatwave. In the last maintenance session I took it all off, removed and discarded the brown sections and the greener parts were re applied with cotton thread. I have performed this on some of the other branches weeks ago but they still are not back to original health.

The Taiwan moss is fine, just trimmed:

An original Buce slowly growing bigger:

Rotala rotundifolia in pot. Clear to see the different shape of the submerged new leaves at the top compared to the emersed grown leaves at the bottom:

Al selection of other new arrivals:

Lilaeopsis brasiliensis in pot:

And this shows my old 120cm next to the new one. It currently acting as a quarantine tank for livestock, holding some of my excess trimmed stems and floating plants. It is still mainly a bed of Cryptocoryne, although many were taken for the new scape. Just running a simple sponge filter on it these days and it seems to be fine.
Failed to take photo with both aquariums correctly exposed?!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[hypnogogia]

Failed to take photo with both aquariums correctly exposed?!

Shows the difference in light levels between the two. You’d never have got both correctly exposed. I wonder how many stops difference it is.

 

[ChrisD80]

On the hardscape front all of my original cotton wool with superglue bonds to fix the branches in place have broken as my clumsy hands brushed against them and knocked them loose. So now the branches are bound to each other using either black plastic cable ties or black velcro ties. For the most part they will sit where I want them. But the branch at the front right, no way. So this is how I am keeping it in place:

I have superglued some kitchen sponge to a clear silicon suction cup. And then superglued the sponge to the rock. A Velcro tie goes through the hoop in the suction cup and around the end of the branch to hold it in place. Quite unsightly but I will cover it up with a plant or two.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[ChrisD80]

Few pics having planted out the new plants.

Back right corner: Rotala rotundifolia, Limnophila hippuridoides , Rotala vietnam and Heteranatha Zosterfolia

 

[ChrisD80]

Bucephalandra wavy green, Anubias and lileaopsis brasiliensis and moss covered lava stones, plus I have relocated one of the Schistamaglostis Prietori (towards front) as I read it prefers to root in to substrate rather than be an epiphite. Hopefully this aids it’s revory from the complete melt it suffered.

More Anubias:

Bucephalandra Kedagang:

 

[ChrisD80]

Current state of the hairgrass on the left side. Not as dense as I have seen others, perhaps I need to trim it more, or higher lighting? I have introduced some LB behind it to transition more to the stems.

I regularly trim leaves off the lotus as it produces so many and the flow distribution pushes them in to the stems so they do tend to get in the way. Ideally I would like them to grow all the way to the surface and sit over the middle path but current set up means this is impossible.

Looking at these photos it’s strange how some, such as this one above, have such a yellow warm hue whereas others, such as the Kedgang in previous post, look far cooler and more like what I perceive in real life. All shot with iPhone X with same lighting over the tank.

As these Limnophila don’t have far to grow due to elevated rear substrate they are constantly hitting the surface and attracting a covering of Salvinia, which multiplies at an astonishing rate. I do worry that it’s blocking light to the stems but they do not look to be suffering so I guess it’s ok.

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

Some FTS, as you might expect it looks a mess at the moment...

//uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200909/bdf340ca544874bce47f4cd22bcb470c.jpg

Hey Chris.

First off love your scape, had immediate impact when first viewed and love the fossilised stone. Hoping you don’t mind a couple of suggestions, know you haven’t asked but think they may help.

In your posts you have two jets pointing at one another from each side of the tank. This is accompanied with the inlets right next to the outlets. Have you considered a better outflow/intake setup to improve distribution around the tank?

Realise you have already shelled out for SS inlets/outlets already. However, if you had shorter inlets positioned in the back corners you would be encouraging flow through your plants, creating a more effective distribution pattern and improved nutrient delivery. Even if it was only on one corner and you maintained the inlet with the skimmer as is, it would probably give you better growth.

The second point is your water level varies between shots. This will interfere with the average dissolved Co2 level day to day due to gassing off from variable levels of surface agitation. It may be a good idea to choose a water level and do your best to maintain it.

 

[ChrisD80]

Hi [mention]Geoffrey Rea [/mention] thanks for the compliment and for your suggestions. Any feedback or advice people would like to give me would always be gratefully received. I am just staring out and keen to learn.

It’s perhaps not visible from the photos I have shared but the left outlet is pointing along the front glass, whereas the right one is pointing towards the middle back. There is a kind of circular flow going on. The circulation pump aids this but it is unsightly and I would like to remove it soon if possible.

I didn’t know that short intakes were available for my pipe size and therefore thought I am forced to have all at the front. I will definitely have a look online to see if I can find any. If anyone knows of any short stainless steel 16/22 intakes available on the market please let me know. I find the integrated skimmer great so would like to keep that feature one way or another. I would love glass one day but have two young boys so cannot risk it.

If I can get hold of some, how would you position the flow from two outlets?

Regarding the water level, is this simply a matter of marking a level to keep it consistent and then topping up through the week? I am doing just one WC per week now. I can put aside some RO water to use for top ups.

Thanks v much
Chris


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

Hi [mention]Geoffrey Rea [/mention]

Just a minor hint Chris, if you want to mention someone on UKAPS you just use the @ followed by their name with no space. A list will appear of appropriate matches as you type the characters and you just tap the appropriate person.

It’s perhaps not visible from the photos I have shared but the left outlet is pointing along the front glass, whereas the right one is pointing towards the middle back. There is a kind of circular flow going on.

This is good and if you can position even one intake in a back corner the push/pull of the flow in the tank will be even better. The soil is banked up high in the corners and can see you’re using Eheim filters. You can reverse the provided shepherds hook intake for a shallow intake:

Not as glamorous looking as SS but functionality over fashion wise it will get you an improved flow pattern and isn’t glass, safer for your children. If it were longer term and you can live with plastic there’s always the black ones:

I’m sure a good hunt around and you would find shallow SS 16mm intakes. Maybe other forum members can point you to a seller who stocks them.

As for flow, even the movement of one intake on the left side to the back corner would improve nutrient distribution through your plants on the left side:

If going the whole hog and getting the right side involved:

I understand the intake 2 proposal would mean your SS intake with the skim would be out. But you would see improvements in the back right corner as general nutrient/Co2 distribution through that area would be leaps and bounds better.

It’s an odd distribution pattern on the face of it but some valley scapes are like that. If proposal 2 were the desired direction then Co2 would be best deployed from the front left outflow:

Bare in mind this is a two dimensional representation. In three dimensions the steep banking towards the back where the intakes are positioned would make pull towards the intakes greater as it gets shallower.

If a skimmer was needed then an eheim skim in the back left corner pointing to the right corner would create flow across the back.

This design of flow pattern is sure to raise a few eyebrows on here as other, much more established members, rightly promote circular flow. However, evidence to the contrary, you can make odd ball flow patterns satisfactory if your scape design makes circular flow difficult:

Journal for the above New Year, New Scape... outlines similar tactics with flow/distribution in a tank where flow is quite restricted if it’s of interest.

 

[ChrisD80]

Hi Geoff,

Thank you for taking the time to provide such a comprehensive reply, and for the drawings!

Firstly regarding

Just a minor hint Chris

Thanks for this. I am on my laptop now, lets see if this ... @Geoffrey Rea comes out right when I hit submit reply
I do struggle when I am on ipad/tapatalk with mentioning people, quoting etc.

Secondly really appreciate the link to your journal, what a fantastic scape! If I can achieve even half that level of plant growth I will be delighted. Your bolbitis was amazing, do you have any particular tips for this plant? You can see mine is really disappointing. It suffered badly along with many of the plants when I had issues early on due to the mistakes that I made. I wonder if a fresh new pot would stand a better chance?

In your photos I could just about make out filter inlets in each of the rear corners plus a skimmer, but I wasn't too sure what you had done with regards to filter outlets? were they glass and practically invisible?

Regarding my aquarium, I actually have both a green and a black Eheim inlet (my filters were bought at different times and they changed the colour) which I could employ.

However I have taken some measurements and I think I may be able to put the current S/S inlets in the back corners. There is a difference in height between the bottom of the inlet and the substrate at the rear of 4cm on the left and 6cm on the right. My idea is to use a combination of raising them up a few cm higher in their brackets/suckers and putting very small glass jars dug in the substrate below them to give that little extra clearance. With luck the intake slots will not be impeded. I can always give it a go and see what happens.

It’s an odd distribution pattern on the face of it but some valley scapes are like that. If proposal 2 were the desired direction then Co2 would be best deployed from the front left outflow:

I actually have inline CO2 diffusers on both of the outlets so no need to choose!

I may have a play with the two outlets to see whether I can achieve both good distribution of flow (main priority) and preferential sway of plants. My lotus is currently getting pushed into the stems on the left and I would much prefer it to go the other way towards the centre as originally envisaged.

Back in your journal, I read with interest your posts about the importance of oxygenation to the health of the aquarium and I may consider introducing airstones in each rear corner as well. I would only run the air it at night because the air pumps are so noisy, but I hope that would help towards the health of the system.

I also noted that you added an additional branch after initial set up to fill a gap, and I think my scape would benefit from a few extra if I can find the right pieces.

Thanks again for your help and love your work!

Cheers Chris

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

Thanks for this. I am on my laptop now, lets see if this ... @Geoffrey Rea comes out right when I hit submit reply

Your bolbitis was amazing, do you have any particular tips for this plant?

Time... adherence to whatever surface it’s meant to attach to takes a while, but once it does things seem to go from extremely slow to rampant. Don’t worry if your initial leaves are a bit ratty, the rhizome is where it’s at so once that’s established (attached) the plant will kick things up a gear.

In your photos I could just about make out filter inlets in each of the rear corners plus a skimmer, but I wasn't too sure what you had done with regards to filter outlets? were they glass and practically invisible?

Eheim spray bar on the left driving flow to front right corner. Water drawn through plants to back right corner by the intake. Jet in back right corner firing it to back left corner and intake in the back left corner drawing water through the plants again.

Suppose my point is to think of your intakes as active actors in your flow pattern - push and pull. In almost every video/picture/live stream you watch (insert person here) place their inlet and outlet together so it’s become the status quo. Your scape design is a good example of how you can gain some benefits by bucking the trend and doing things a little different.

and putting very small glass jars dug in the substrate below them to give that little extra clearance.

Wouldn’t disturb your substrate. Also the jars will encourage a localised increased flow into your intakes, would estimate you might start sucking in soil, clogging up your filters. Could be wrong but would imagine any pro would come with a con.

Back in your journal, I read with interest your posts about the importance of oxygenation to the health of the aquarium and I may consider introducing airstones in each rear corner as well. I would only run the air it at night because the air pumps are so noisy, but I hope that would help towards the health of the system.

Two points... Firstly, assuming you move the intakes to the back corners, make sure you position the air stone/air diffuser away from your intakes as you don’t want air going into your filters. Second running air at night gives the added benefit of a different flow pattern during the night, can help solve any dead spots.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

it’s meant to attach to takes a while, but once it does things seem to go from extremely slow to rampant.

Mine just floats around the tank. Low tech it is actually one of my quicker growers, despite always ending up in places where Eeyore would find it gloomy.

I've also found that it almost never has any biofilm on the fronds, even under the microscope the surfaces look almost entirely smooth. Some of older fronds occasionally have a bit of moss attached to them, but that really is it. I have no idea why, or if other people have found this as well?

It may just be that it is the lack of light that deters other would be "guests".

cheers Darrel

 

[ChrisD80]

Time... adherence to whatever surface it’s meant to attach to takes a while, but once it does things seem to go from extremely slow to rampant. Don’t worry if your initial leaves are a bit ratty, the rhizome is where it’s at so once that’s established (attached) the plant will kick things up a gear.

Ok, maybe I have a problem. At the moment they are attached with cable ties and now that I touch them they are somewhat loose and rhizome moves about. Perhaps if I tie them on more securely using another method the root/rhizome growth will more easily grow on to the wood and feel more secure.

Suppose my point is to think of your intakes as active actors in your flow pattern - push and pull. In almost every video/picture/live stream you watch (insert person here) place their inlet and outlet together so it’s become the status quo. Your scape design is a good example of how you can gain some benefits by bucking the trend and doing things a little different.

Now that you say this, it makes complete sense. By focussing on the direction of the outlets, and not the inlets, I was just thinking about half the equation. As you say 90+% of images you see have them together so didn't really give it much thought.

I have moved the S/S inlets to the back. I moved them higher in their brackets and removed a small amount of substrate below each to accommodate. I decided to try the glass jars; they are really tiny (opening is fractionally larger than the diameter of the inlet) and do not make any material impact on flow patterns. The slits in the inlets are all clearly exposed and actively intaking water.

This got me thinking about the flow, and I note you mentioned in the journal using only a coarse sponge. I am currently using quite lot of mechanical filtration at a range of grades, perhaps too much. Will see about taking out some of the finer flosses.

Firstly, assuming you move the intakes to the back corners, make sure you position the air stone/air diffuser away from your intakes as you don’t want air going into your filters.

Oh ok, I thought I read that it was beneficial for oxygen to be entering the filter for the bacteria. You are saying oxygenated water is what we are aiming for rather than oxygen bubbles!

Thanks again for all the advice
Cheers
Chris

 

[Geoffrey Rea]

Ok, maybe I have a problem. At the moment they are attached with cable ties and now that I touch them they are somewhat loose and rhizome moves about. Perhaps if I tie them on more securely using another method the root/rhizome growth will more easily grow on to the wood and feel more secure.

Nah. It can’t float away and it will attach in due course. Just like with humans, doesn’t matter what we say or do... still takes nine months to make a baby. As before, matter of time.

Now that you say this, it makes complete sense. By focussing on the direction of the outlets, and not the inlets, I was just thinking about half the equation. As you say 90+% of images you see have them together so didn't really give it much thought.

I have moved the S/S inlets to the back. I moved them higher in their brackets and removed a small amount of substrate below each to accommodate. I decided to try the glass jars; they are really tiny (opening is fractionally larger than the diameter of the inlet) and do not make any material impact on flow patterns. The slits in the inlets are all clearly exposed and actively intaking water.

Excellent and really glad to hear the jar idea worked. Fortune favours the brave with new techniques!!

This got me thinking about the flow, and I note you mentioned in the journal using only a coarse sponge. I am currently using quite lot of mechanical filtration at a range of grades, perhaps too much. Will see about taking out some of the finer flosses.

Yup, coarse prefilter sponge, bio media and filter floss at the very end. The filter floss collects all the finest crud and is replaced every two weeks along with the pre-filter sponge getting swapped out whilst you have the filter open. Cheap five metre rolls of floss you can cut yourself make this economical and you just need two prefilter sponges per filter for convenience. If you’re a fan of purigen, little bag after the floss. Monthly, rinse your media with the water draining from the tank. That’s it. High flow through your filter all year round. Oldest filter running here has been going six years continuously like this and served many scapes.

Oh ok, I thought I read that it was beneficial for oxygen to be entering the filter for the bacteria. You are saying oxygenated water is what we are aiming for rather than oxygen bubbles!

Bingo.

Wishing you beautiful plant growth Chris. Once again, love your scape.

 

[ChrisD80]

Been a while since my last update, apologies. Been super busy with work and its hard to remember the last evening I had free.

Lots of updates to report but that will have to wait until I have time to take some photos / videos.

In the meantime I had taken these pics of some BBA that had developed and has stuck around. It doesn’t seem to be getting much worse or spreading which is good.

I am treating the hard scape with Excel and Hydrogen peroxide using a paintbrush when water level reduced during weekly maintenance. For the plants I can obviously cut off affected leaves but does anyone have advice for treating BBA on moss? Seen people describe treating plants by spraying diluted excel when exposed or injecting via syringe underwater. But would this harm the moss?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk