Sounds right instinctively from what we already know, but I don't know the science behind where you get the 4x figure. I take the red pillceg4048 said:By the way, an 18 watt light bulb is exactly 4 times better for this tank than a 36 watt bulb. I know you probably feel like Alice in Wonderland tumbling down the rabbit hole? You can just accept this, take the Blue Pill and wake up in your bed tomorrow and everything will be OK. If you take the Red Pill I can explain and show you how deep the rabbit hole actually goes...
I'll tell you what; there are some killer Microbial Ecology articles on the Springer-Link Journal website. I can't remember the URL right now but T.Barr directed us to the site. There is an article entitled "Strong Indirect Effects of a Submersed Aquatic Macrophyte,Ray said:...I hate to think what kind of botany and bio-chemistry textbooks you must be keeping at your bedside these days!
Oh most definitely Ray. Many people view tank cycling as if it were some sort of childhood disease to get over and done with. Cycling is critical because it establishes the very foundation upon which the battle against algae will be fought. The same process that we call "cycling" is actually a process which goes on continuously in the tank. If the plants are the cavalry, the bacteria are the infantry. It is specifically because of low bacteria population in a tank that the levels of NH4 and NO2 rise to such toxic levels. Then somehow we completely ignore this important component once the toxic levels fall.Ray said::?: I think you are saying that a cycling process is important not just from the point of view of fish but also plants and not getting algae.
Well I suppose it would depend on what condition the tank from which you are pulling the filter from was in, but yes, generally, DOC limitation will cause a loss of population, but so what, you'd have a filter with a much higher population of nitrifying bacteria than if you used a brand new filter, and the bodies of the bacteria that die will contribute to the DOC as they decay (they'll contribute to NH4 as well though). This is one of the reasons we suggest to seed a new filter or to put mulm from the gravel of an established tank into the gravel new tank. We want to get that population up as quickly as possible.Ray said:If I put a mature filter on a new planted tank will the bacteria population in the filter crash for want of sufficient organic carbon pollution from the plants?
Yep, there is way too much light turned on tanks startups round the world. I start my tanks with 50% to 75% of nominal value. This slows the DOC production a bit but the plants are usually inefficient anyway and lowering the light reduces algae's advantage. I also dose full EI from the start as there are some "good guy" bacteria which can use inorganic phosphates. I see so many cases where people do the exact opposite - high light and no/low nutrients, and it makes me think Hmmmmm...Ray said::?: I presume that turning the light down in the initial weeks is the best approach to allow things to get going slowly?
Ray said:Sounds right instinctively from what we already know, but I don't know the science behind where you get the 4x figure. I take the red pillceg4048 said:By the way, an 18 watt light bulb is exactly 4 times better for this tank than a 36 watt bulb. I know you probably feel like Alice in Wonderland tumbling down the rabbit hole? You can just accept this, take the Blue Pill and wake up in your bed tomorrow and everything will be OK. If you take the Red Pill I can explain and show you how deep the rabbit hole actually goes...
Ray said:Lets see if I got this, because this is quite new, at least to me.
Plants help with the removal of Ammonia not only by taking it in to metabolise it themselves but by contributing Derived Organic Carbon (DOC) to the environment which makes a more favourable environment for bacteria including those that breakdown ammonia in the nitrogen cycle. Hence the more plant biomas you have the more DOC is produced - so a well planted tank will have less ammonia and so is less likely to have algae (since algae is induced by ammonia).
Ray said::idea: Can we dose DOC in the early days of a tank without it contributing to the ammonia levels?
Exactly. Leonardite is basically peat+coal, organic matter and DOC for the substrate bacteria. In the end this is probably a better option than adding glucose.SuperColey1 said:I assume that Tom Barr's love of Leonardite is DOC related then?
SuperColey1 said:Nice tank by the way Steve. Where did you get the wood from that cheap?
|Hagen Fluval Flex Bio Co2....34 Litre!!!||Journals||4|
|Dennerle Scapers Tank 35 Litre "The Red Ring"||Journals||8|
|O||First tank & 125 litre rimless conversion||Journals||3|
|M||32 litre jungle||Journals||3|
|Thinking about a second scape - some thoughts and questions||Journals||2|
|R||My first ever scape||Journals||7|