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3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Day 59

Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

as above great planting and looking really good with the rock placement. Ive chop some of that hyrdo back and see if you get some new smaller growth. The cloud you've got in your tank looks that same as mine did with using dragon stone. No matter how much you clean it it always provides some dust so its probably that. Can you get purigen over there to put in your filter as thats cleaned mine to crystal in a day?
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

A quality layout.

It does look like you've filled way too quickly. I've used the full ADA system, and not once have i had water like that.

It's always worth taking your time when filling. If there's a small bit of clouding, do a water change instantly.
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

I'm using ADA Malaya in mine with Dragon stone and my water was nothing like that when I filled. Actually pretty clear. But I had spent A LOT of time cleaning the rocks, soaking, power hosing, taking them to the jet wash etc. Additionally I filled the entire tank with news paper before I added water.

Seachem Purigen is amazing stuff for "polishing" the water, i'd deffo give that a shot if the water change doesn't help quick enough.
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

I did spent a lot of time cleaning the rock too. but the more I clean the rock the more it crumbles! I got afraid in in the end so I ended up using a soft brush to brush away all the mud. The tank this morning was crystal clear (thank god for that). :) Why used purigen when there is a whole box full of filter wool waiting to be used?

The current setup is shown below and I'm failing to reach 1000l/hour. Would appreciate if there is any other method of increasing the flowrate without disrupting too much of the connection.

Intake --> CO2 UP inline diffuser --> Prefilter chamber with filter wool --> Tetra tec 1200 with original filter material

-->Chiller Hailea --> Hailea external pump rated at 1700lph -->Lily pipe outflow

The whole thing has a rated flow rate of nearly 3000lph and I'm not getting even 1000l. I think there would still be enough slow in the tank for nutrient distribution but I'm worried that my chiller will die out sooner. Having said that it's kicking in every 2 hours for about 15 minutes and then kicks out. That seemed to be the right amount of time from my own understanding. Would appreciate if someone could clarify this.
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

don't chain pumps surely 2 different rated pumps chained up will screw things up.
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

It is definitely not a good idea to link separate pumps of this kind in series like this. Firstly that is not a rated flow of nearly 3000lph as you do not add the two amounts together. The highest it could be would be 1700lph. Having said that, the 1700lph would be a rating with minimal load. Essentially you are asking your Hailea to suck water through resistance in the form of the preceeding equipment, so it is not surprising you are getting flow more akin to what you would expect from the Tetratec. Add to that, this is likely to cause damage to the Tetratec and quite likely the Hailea too.
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

i agree with Antipofish... i also tried doing the same thing sometime ago but with two filters... one eheim and another cheaper china made one... and the eheim being the more reliable one completely negated the output of the other filter... you could try removing the impeller of the eheim and just using the heilea pump alone that way the rating should be up to 1700... i considered this but never really tried... also i had asked questions regarding this issue many times...and the most reasonable answers seem to point to the idea that it will ruin the output of both pumps or filters... you might also want to consider whether the canister filter can handle a high rated output than what it was meant for... might even burst or leak... :D also thats a really nice scape :eek:
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

Rabb.D said:
i agree with Antipofish... i also tried doing the same thing sometime ago but with two filters... one eheim and another cheaper china made one... and the eheim being the more reliable one completely negated the output of the other filter... you could try removing the impeller of the eheim and just using the heilea pump alone that way the rating should be up to 1700... i considered this but never really tried... also i had asked questions regarding this issue many times...and the most reasonable answers seem to point to the idea that it will ruin the output of both pumps or filters... you might also want to consider whether the canister filter can handle a high rated output than what it was meant for... might even burst or leak... :D

I agree that leaks are another possibility, but I disagree that removing the impeller of the Tetratec would increase the potential flow back up to the maximum of the Hailea. It still has to pull all that water through the restrictions and resistance of all the preceeding equipment. Separating the two parts (Hailea/chiller and filter/etc) is the best option IMVHO. OR you could go all reefy and have hardpiped returns etc too....
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

Another point on that set up. I thought it was generally best practice to put the inline CO2 after the filter rather then before to avoid gas buildup and the CO2 corroding any rubber seals.

I had the same issue with lack of flow with my inline CO2 reactor and heater on my corner tank with a fluval 405. In my new setup i've opted for two tetratec 1200 with one bit of kit on each. I may have too much flow now on a Rio 180.
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

Thanks for all the input guys. I initially got this idea from a youtube video I saw where a guy had an external canister filter which was underperforming and then he attached a submersible water pump at the outlet and the system output increase tremendously. I'm just a little shocked when my system doesn't turn out as it was suppose to be. Apparently the pump at the outlet generate a negative pressure to allow the primary filter to pump easily and thus increasing it's efficacy. I'm pretty sure even if I removed the hailea pump, my water rate would plummet making it using with the chiller a definite no no. This is such a headache. I really wanted minimal pipe connection on this setup and it's proven very difficult. The back pressure on the system is so high that priming the tetratec during water changes is impossible. I have to feet water directly into the tube to allow the whole system to be prime...

Anyway this is the tank after 24 hours of running the tank through filterwool polish.
IMG_0112.jpg
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

daniel19831123 said:
Thanks for all the input guys. I initially got this idea from a youtube video I saw where a guy had an external canister filter which was underperforming and then he attached a submersible water pump at the outlet and the system output increase tremendously. I'm just a little shocked when my system doesn't turn out as it was suppose to be. Apparently the pump at the outlet generate a negative pressure to allow the primary filter to pump easily and thus increasing it's efficacy. I'm pretty sure even if I removed the hailea pump, my water rate would plummet making it using with the chiller a definite no no. This is such a headache. I really wanted minimal pipe connection on this setup and it's proven very difficult. The back pressure on the system is so high that priming the tetratec during water changes is impossible. I have to feet water directly into the tube to allow the whole system to be prime...

Hi Daniel. The problem with wanting minimal pipework is that you have multiple equipment, which I appreciate is a pain. Can you elaborate why priming the Tetratec is such a problem ? Do you mean if it is stand alone, or if it is as per your current setup ? I am wondering if part of that is that you have your CO2 diffuser inline prior to the TT inlet ?
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

The whole system includes 3 meter of 16/22 hose that interconnect the prefilter, tetratec filter, chiller and the hailea pump. I tried removed the hailea pump but the air that was trapped in the system caused the tetratec to leak from the priming button when I tried to prime it. This was already a problem when I was in the UK and the filter back then was on the same level as the fish tank! Maybe I just had a very lousy tetratec... This was made worse when the hailea pump was included as there is another 50cm of piping involved.
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

daniel19831123 said:
This is the video that I was referring to

...

It definitely increases the flow, although his system is nothing like yours really. It does not have anywhere near the resistance that yours would create, although your Hailea is a better pump than the MJ obviously. However, even though he seems to be having some success, the question still remains, "What damage is he causing to the canister filter" ? Email Tetratec, and ask what they have to say on the topic ! I can imagine their reply.

I would suggest posting a separate thread on a reef forum though, because those guys REALLY know what they are talking about when it comes to flow... Far more than me, in any case :)
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

daniel19831123 said:
The whole system includes 3 meter of 16/22 hose that interconnect the prefilter, tetratec filter, chiller and the hailea pump. I tried removed the hailea pump but the air that was trapped in the system caused the tetratec to leak from the priming button when I tried to prime it. This was already a problem when I was in the UK and the filter back then was on the same level as the fish tank! Maybe I just had a very lousy tetratec... This was made worse when the hailea pump was included as there is another 50cm of piping involved.

Yeah, the problem, I believe is that you are trying to draw water into the TT, the action of which, under normal circumstances, pushes air in the outflow pipework back through to the tank. However, you have your outflow connected on to more equipment that holds water ? The chiller right? Therefore the weight of the water entering the TT (which is gravity fed) is only that which is in the inlet pipe. And this is insufficient to push the air between the TT and the next piece of equipment AND the water in that, back up through. Or am I misunderstanding this ?
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

the answer is fairly simple tbh you have too much stuff inline on the one filter. every item you plug inline reduces the flow rate if the pump is also having to either push or pull through a chiller then you're really hindering your flow rate. your best option is to have a different pump driving the chiller and the other one driving the header + atomiser
this is supported by you saying you have too much backpressure from the outlet end for you to be able to easily prime the filter. you should in most cases get enough siphon pressure from the intlet that after one or 2 pumps the filter basically primes its self.

remove all the stuff from your outlet and you'll find your flow rate increases (you can also remove some excessive filter material too which will help eg: you only really need one wool floss pad in your filter not 3)
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

Sigh... This will mean that there will be 2 more intake and outflow pipe from the chiller system itself. I was hoping that I wouldn't need to resort to this. Maybe I'll just an over flow box and a sump to make it easier and scrap the external canister filter in the near future.
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

a sump would be the way forward if you're running a chiller yeah you can take advantage of a pond pump in a sump system so maintain a high flow rate
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

perhaps you could just get a much bigger external then the ex1200.

I remember when I tested my friends Seb's 1200 with his reactor and heater in-line. Using a 1L jug we measured it at less then 250l/h down from 1200. Rubbish really. That is why I went for the two I have now. But you could just go massively oversized, knowing that your kit will reduce it down again. Tetratec Ex 2400 possibly?
 
Re: 3 feet tank now planted and scaped! Update!

Thought about it but I think it will still be the same when I connect the chiller and the lily pipe. A pump rated 2000 litre would probably turn out to be running at 500lph under these pressure. Maybe I'll just invest in a big external pump like a 4000lph pump and connect it to the tetratec. Would probably leave the tetratex pump idle and just turn on the external pump
 
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