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30" Deep Tank Lighting Advice needed

Katfish

Member
Joined
21 Jan 2012
Messages
141
Location
Tunbridge Wells
I am trying to get more light to the bottom of my tank.
My tank is 72"x24"x30" and at present I am running 4 x 54w T5's with reflectors.

The lights are 4-5" above the water level which means from light to top of substrate is about 32"

What are my options for getting more light to the bottom of my tank?
 
Hi yes Co2 injection though a reactor with twin full length spray bars one on back one on front
Filters is 1 x sump with a OR 6500 return pump 1 x Ehime Bucket filter modded to take a 3400ltr pump
 
Plants losing leaves and turning into palm trees is caused by poor CO2. Adding more light without fixing root cause will generally cause more loss of leaves, and worse things as well.

Cheers,
 
Which means absolutely nothing to the plant leaves because they are seeing probably less than 10% of all that CO2 you are injecting. What this means is that your flow and distribution is poor, which prevents the CO2 from reaching the target, or that you have too much light, which drives the demand for CO2 more than what you are supplying.

Cheers,
 
What do I need to do? As I have 2 full length spray bars 1 pointing down to the middle of the tank and the other pointing straight down the front of the glass one of them is pumping out around 5000lrt an hour and the other around 2500lrt per hour.

Do i need to increase my co2 ?
more flow ?
 
Well, here is the thing; The deterioration tells you that CO2 is marginal to poor. How you fix it depends on the sensitivity of the fish,economic factors as well as ergonomic and aesthetic factors. Everything stars with the light intensity. Instead of assuming, as you did earlier, that you needed to add more light, consider that it is the amount of light that is too high causing the problem. The first action you should take therefore is to REDUCE the amount of light. If you can accomplish this by disabling som bulbs then it will make your life a lot easier.

As I continually try to point out, Co2 is what grows plants. Have you ever sat under a gigantic English Oak and marvelled at it's incredible bulk and girth? Well all that bulk is mostly carbon. Light is an engine, the oven. Carbon is the dough that makes the bread.

If you are not able to disable bulbs or to raise the height of the fixtures, remove reflectors for the time being. Reduce the photoperiod. Reducing the light reduces the demand for carbon.

The next step is to change the flow configuration. It's clearly not working. I'm not sure why you have the holes pointed down. The preferred scheme for spraybars mounted on the aft wall is to have all holes and pumps pointed horizontally towards the front glss NOT pointed down.

Are you complying with the 10X rule?

Next is to think about supplementing using liquid carbon if affordable.

Last but not least is to consider an injection rate increase. This is the most dangerous, so make thes adjustments when you have time observe the fish for distress. You may need to drive the DC into the yellow. Is the timing of your gas correct? Is the bright green there before the light comes on? If not, you may need to turn the gas on earlier.

Do more water changes, an make sure they are massive. 90% is not out of the question, and make sure you do this at lights on, and that the plant leaves are exposed to air. That helps with CO2.

Clean the leaves during a water change. Rub them between your thumb and forefinger toclean away the slime and detritus. Every leaf...

Cheers,
 
Right where do I start
The lights are 4x54w which are paired so yes I can turn off 2 the lights are on for 8 hours per day from 12-8pm which would be the best way to do this just turn 2 lights off all the time or have 2 come on for 2 hours then the other 2 for 4 hours then back to just 2 for last 2 hours?
Co2 is on all the time this is done via a ph controller and the indicator is bright green all the time.

As for the 10x rule my tank holds 850ltr-900ltr and the return pump from the sump is a or6500 but I would say it runs at 5500ltr/ph due to the head my other filter is a eheim 1250 but I have modded this and changed the pump to a 3400ltr/ph all this filter has in it in alfagrog as did not want to restrict flow as this runs the co2 reactor and I have enough foam etc in the sump I know this filter is pushing out 3000lrt/ph at the tank as I have measured it.

I do EI dose as per the calculator on The Nutrient Company's website which this is what I dose which again might be wrong?
Sun
2 tsb---Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)
3/4 tsb---Monopotassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)
6 tsp---Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4)

Mon 3/4 tsp---TNC Trace

Tues 2 tsb---Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)
3/4 tsb---Monopotassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)
6 tsb---Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4)

Wed 3/4 tsp---TNC Trace

Thur 2 tsb---Potassium Nitrate (KNO3)
3/4 tsb---Monopotassium Phosphate (KH2PO4)
6 tsb---Magnesium Sulphate (MgSO4)

Fri Rest

Sat Rest

As for water changes 100ltrs-120ltrs gets changed everyday this is automatic I do not have to do anything at all which gives me a around 800ltrs per week change over.

I have 2 spray bars one running along the back glass and one running along the front glass How should I position them ?
 
What about using an atomizer for the CO2, and locate the business end as close to the substrate as possible, and in such a location that the water flow is going down over it. I do this and if the bubbles are small enough they will flow out from the side of the tank on the current and dissolve before reaching the surface. And I suggest this in addition to the method you are presently using. I've been getting a yellowish green in my drop checker with no apparent ill effects to my livestock.
 
It has been sujested many times on this forum that PH controllers don't work very successfully with plated tanks.
sumps & overflows to sumps will gas off C02 at a disturbing rate!!
The more warter you flow over the wier the more gas you will waste!
PH controllers don't offer a very constant supply as they use the dropping Ph to operate the supply & you end up with fluctuations when there is no Co2 being supplied.
 
I agree 100% with foxfish. You need to disable the controlling function of your device and use a steady state injection rate, or, you need to set a low enough target pH so that the gas is continually on for the duration of the photoperiod. That might be all you need to do, but even so, that is a tall order. The injection rate needs to be high for that size tank.

When the controller is running, the CO2 is not really on all the time. As foxfish mentions the gas will be shut off because a controller only measures pH. It is not capable of measuring CO2. The dropchecker has a two to three hour time lag so reall you have no idea of the CO2 content of the water with this configuration.

The two bulbs should be turned off and left off. It doesn't matter which two.

There is nothing wrong with the dosing scheme. This problem has nothing to do with nutrients.

Fix your injection rate first. The wait a few weeks to see the effects. I assume the gas is injected into the sump. The sump should be sealed off from atmosphere with a cover, otherwise CO2 is lost from the sump at an alarming rate.
Cheers,
 
The co2 is on the filter and not the sump this is how is runs

25mm pipe from tank to bucket filter then outlet from bucket filter to co2 reactor then from reactor to tank via a full length spray bar.
 
The point I was making about the sump burring up gas still applies though!
The most efficient tanks will hold the gas in suspension for as long as possible but if you are pouring water over the overflow down to the sump then you are effectively removing the co2 from that water.
I use a sump myself, & a trickle tower, the system works very well, its just that I use lots of gas & in a tank your size you will need a lot to satisfy the plants needs.
 
Ok I see what you mean now

My tank has become such a headache over the last few months that I have thought about giving it up and just changing it to a cichlid tank as I still can not get clear water I have so many suspended particles that it makes the water look cloudy I have tried everything I know of. 90% water change I vacuum the whole tank every week change the filter floss every week and still suspended particles I am pulling my hair out over it now and it is no more enjoyable more like a chore.
 
O dear thats not good!
You need to take heed of our advice, forget the controller, cut down the lights & reduce the time they are on for.
I would add some liquid carbon too.
I use 2 kg of gas every 8-10 weeks on my 200lt tank so expect to use quite a lot on you tank!
I am not sure what you have in your tank but you could try some fast easy plants like Amazon swords to give you some conferdance back.
 
I have today I have only 2 tubes running and on my tank it looks so dim now and the co2 I have turned up on the controller for now as the pipe is cut so I have ordered up some more co2 pipe and then I will remove the controller and have the co2 on a timer for 2 hours b 4 lights on.
 
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