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40 Breeder Dutchy High Tech + Low Tech Tanks

How big that Echinodorus Aflame can get? never seen one with a “traditional” Echinodorus size…
That’s a good 15-20cm. I am sure it can get bigger with time.
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How big that Echinodorus Aflame can get? never seen one with a “traditional” Echinodorus size…
I got it as a TC labeled as Aflame Purple Knight. Aflame can get pretty large supposedly (I’ve never grown it), but purple knight maxes out around 8”/~20cm. Based on my experiences with it over the last year +, I believe it is indeed purple knight.
 
I got it as a TC labeled as Aflame Purple Knight. Aflame can get pretty large supposedly (I’ve never grown it), but purple knight maxes out around 8”/~20cm. Based on my experiences with it over the last year +, I believe it is indeed purple knight.

I thought 'Aflame' and 'Purple Knight' were just different names for the same plant?

It's a tough plant to grow (even tougher to source in the UK) - mine are growing, and doing better in soft water than hard, but they are growing very sloooooowly, and look largely the same as yours and @Hanuman 's. I've not seen any pictures of them looking particularly large, mainly a similar size to yours.
 
's a tough plant to grow (even tougher to source in the UK) - mine are growing, and doing better in soft water than hard, but they are growing very sloooooowly, and look largely the same as yours and @Hanuman 's. I've not seen any pictures of them looking particularly large, mainly a similar size to yours.
I recall an old post on from Mick.dk where he said Tropica considered producing it but decided against it in the end. I think it was because it is always so twisted and sickly looking. I wouldn't be surprised if its also slow and hard to grow, it seems a little bit different, maybe not a very vigorous mutation?
 
Purple knight and normal aflame are distinct different varietals per Barr.

Here’s a picture of aflame (creds to Kyle Duhn) -
F211B51E-0CA1-42CF-ADFF-E14505BED80C.jpeg


And here is mine at what has to be close to max size after 7 months of growth in April of this year before I reset my tank from this -

(September 2022)
A41DC2C8-0CF4-4EA8-9B82-9CE6B29C26D2.jpeg


To this -

(April 2023)
8A456DAA-C22D-49DD-8CA7-4E0F80E91AF1.jpeg


Additional size comparison -

(October 2022)

4D90EC42-E48A-43BC-AA21-747A9E1BCAE9.jpeg
 
Purple knight and normal aflame are distinct different varietals per Barr.

Here’s a picture of aflame (creds to Kyle Duhn) - View attachment 208187

And here is mine at what has to be close to max size after 7 months of growth in April of this year before I reset my tank from this -

(September 2022)
View attachment 208188

To this -

(April 2023)
View attachment 208189

Additional size comparison -

(October 2022)

View attachment 208190
Lovely… thank you for the reply. BTW do you use kno3+urea mix for N? how are your levels running for the week?
 
Lovely… thank you for the reply. BTW do you use kno3+urea mix for N? how are your levels running for the week?
I’ve not yet tried using some urea. I definitely will at some point. I know a couple people that grow some really nice plants that swear by it. FWIW - I was recommended to start with a very low amount of urea, like a ratio of 1-10 nitrate from urea to nitrate from KNO3.

Right now I’m running my tank on daily dosing of about 2.28 NO3 - 1.14 PO4 - 3.86 K (16 NO3 - 8 PO4 - 27 K divided in 7). Either going to lower K or use some alternative source for it besides K2SO4 because I’m having a bit of solubility issues with it dosing at these levels.
 
I’ve not yet tried using some urea. I definitely will at some point. I know a couple people that grow some really nice plants that swear by it. FWIW - I was recommended to start with a very low amount of urea, like a ratio of 1-10 nitrate from urea to nitrate from KNO3.

Right now I’m running my tank on daily dosing of about 2.28 NO3 - 1.14 PO4 - 3.86 K (16 NO3 - 8 PO4 - 27 K divided in 7). Either going to lower K or use some alternative source for it besides K2SO4 because I’m having a bit of solubility issues with it dosing at these levels.

You already have perfect tanks… don’t think is necessary to test for improvement. I do have a small tank now and a big one. Nowadays I only run tests on the small one… doing some tests for 1ppm Nitrogen (0.5ppm KNO3 and 0.5ppm UREA) for the week. Dose the mix of ferts only at sundays. Bigger leafs and deeper colorations have shown at rotala Hras that were green for a while until this lean regime in sand… but still not a solid result (red color is changing to green and red between waterchanges LOL).
 
You already have perfect tanks… don’t think is necessary to test for improvement. I do have a small tank now and a big one. Nowadays I only run tests on the small one… doing some tests for 1ppm Nitrogen (0.5ppm KNO3 and 0.5ppm UREA) for the week. Dose the mix of ferts only at sundays. Bigger leafs and deeper colorations have shown at rotala Hras that were green for a while until this lean regime in sand… but still not a solid result (red color is changing to green and red between waterchanges LOL).
That’s really nice of you to say, thank you! But I’ve still got a ways to go, both with scaping and growing plants haha, and that’s part of what makes the hobby awesome. For example, in that most recent full tank shot I gave, I was having issues with the Buce, hygro 53b, meta, AR mini variegated, and mermaid weed. Eventually ended up giving up on the hygro 53b for the time being.

Also, for the first time since I set the tank up in 2020 when I was still very much a noob, I’m having legit algae issues again. I messed with the reactor I was using and caused a leak, so I had to do a quick switch to an inline diffuser to hold me over. I had never used an inline diffuser until then, and I had to mess with the CO2 so much to get it in an okay spot that I triggered some hair algae that I’ve been having some trouble with. Currently trying API Algaefix for the first time, because I’ve heard it is great for hair algae, and going back to at least 2 water changes a week. Also have more GSA than I’d like. Just some insight to illustrate I’m still learning a lot haha. Luckily I know so much more now so I’m not too worried, and I’ve kept the hair algae under control. The main thing that worries me is a couple people I know who also are also in the US got a very strange type of hair algae that wouldn’t go away without resorting to bleaching the tank. So fingers crossed it isn’t that weird hair algae.

Just to be clear, you’re dosing only 1ppm total nitrate a week in sand? 1ppm nitrogen would be 4.46 NO3, so just clarifying.
 
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That’s really nice of you to say, thank you! But I’ve still got a ways to go, both with scaping and growing plants haha, and that’s part of what makes the hobby awesome. For example, in that most recent full tank shot I gave, I was having issues with the Buce, hygro 53b, meta, AR mini variegated, and mermaid weed. Eventually ended up giving up on the hygro 53b for the time being.

Also, for the first time since I set the tank up in 2020 when I was still very much a noob, I’m having legit algae issues again. I messed with the reactor I was using and caused a leak, so I had to do a quick switch to an inline diffuser to hold me over. I had never used an inline diffuser until then, and I had to mess with the CO2 so much to get it in an okay spot that I triggered some hair algae that I’ve been having some trouble with. Currently trying API Algaefix for the first time, because I’ve heard it is great for hair algae, and going back to at least 2 water changes a week. Also have more GSA than I’d like. Just some insight to illustrate I’m still learning a lot haha. Luckily I know so much more now so I’m not too worried, and I’ve kept the hair algae under control. The main thing that worries me is a couple people I know who also are also in the US got a very strange type of hair algae that wouldn’t go away without resorting to bleaching the tank. So fingers crossed it isn’t that weird hair algae.

Just to be clear, you’re dosing only 1ppm total nitrate a week in sand? 1ppm nitrogen would be 4.46 NO3, so just clarifying.

Yes. Is 1ppm divided by 2 compounds (0.5ppm as kno3 and 0,5ppm as urea) per week along with all the other nutrients in a very lean scheme (i almost cloned my tap water parameters since they are very good, soft and lean). I am dosing this test scheme in two test tanks (one with and one without co2) to see how the systems behave (dosing just one day for the week and dont do water changes just measuring TDS). I can easily go more then a month without water change with this approach. Some tetras even breed.

Photos below:

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Sorry, phone photos sucks. In the big tank I have some stems hanging around just to see how colorful stems behave (not good at the moment… think should raise some fe+micros levels or change chelation on fe… maybe raise Mg too).
 

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Purple knight and normal aflame are distinct different varietals per Barr.

Here’s a picture of aflame (creds to Kyle Duhn) - View attachment 208187

And here is mine at what has to be close to max size after 7 months of growth in April of this year before I reset my tank from this -

(September 2022)
View attachment 208188

To this -

(April 2023)
View attachment 208189

Additional size comparison -

(October 2022)

View attachment 208190
What about the iron +micros dosing for the week here? and what compunds/brand do u use?
 
Things are looking pretty dang good ATM.

View attachment 195503

Substrate's looking a bit more purplish than I thought, so I'm going to increase the green and/or white in my color spectrum.

Also, for those who are interested, checked in on my PH drop since I just refilled my CO2 tank. After 1 day degassed - 7.06. When lights come on - 5.52. So PH drop is about 1.54. Probably what would be considered nosebleed levels lol.

Took out the nymphae dwarf lotus, going to be trying some Erio Lineare there. Not looking forward to dealing with the buoyancy, but I'm planning on trying some sponge filter + plant weight shenanigans to help with the planting.

Went with some AR Mini Variegated where the hygro araguaia was. It's converting from emersed. This is what it looked like almost 2 weeks ago. So far in my experience with this and several times with the normal AR mini, AR seems to convert pretty quickly.

View attachment 195504

I'm officially growing some Downoi. I've wanted to grow this plant for at least 2 years, but had issues converting from emersed and tissue culture specimens in the past due to Amano Shrimp and false SAE wrecking it before it could convert.

View attachment 195505

The two outer plants totally abandoned all old growth and have thrown out new healthy side shoots adapted to my conditions, which is pretty cool to see. Wondering if it's normal for normal downoi to have some coloration in the middle, or if I may have gotten at least one portion of red downoi on accident?

View attachment 195506
The syn lago grande has grown a ton and is pretty close to being ready for its first trim. I've read that Syns do much better with uprooting and replanting than just trimming like a hedge, so not looking forward to that process too much lol. This is what it looked like on August 26th.

View attachment 195508

To the left of the lago grande is what I bought labeled as Macrandra Mini Type 4 Red. This is what it looked like pretty soon after being introduced in my tank. You can see the new portions growing in yellowish, which wasn't surprising because it was while I had the Finnex on the tank while waiting for the Chihiros.



This is what it looks like now. I've mowed it once, but I expected better color. Either it isn't Mini Type 4 Red (which I think it is more likely than not due to its colors when I put it in my tank), or it isn't getting enough light and possibly the trimming has caused it to lose color. Someone recently said to me that Macrandra can lose some color when it's trimmed like a hedge, which I've noticed on other species like Blood Red SG.

View attachment 195510

Going to try replanting tops this next time around to see what the color and leaf shape looks like after that. If it needs 200+ PAR at the substrate level to be red, I'll swap it out with something else. People who have grown macrandra, how much PAR does it need to really color up?


View attachment 195509

I paste this photo from your post above. This is a very interesting phenomena… think should had more time and question dedicated around this issue… what folks think or report cause this issue? right now I have something similar on my own rotalas HRAs… the colors changed from green to sunset orange and now to green again. Is this related to some kind of nutrient levels adaptation? nutrient type adaptation? I have one H. chai and C. Flamingo that are not showing their pink colors too (more like green or original colors of H. araguaia in the case of H. Chai.

Very, very, very interesting…

Cheers from Brazil Pantanal.
 
What about the iron +micros dosing for the week here? and what compunds/brand do u use?
There’s a hobbyist in the US named Joe Harvey (burr740 on plantedtank forum) who makes his own batches of ferts out of DTPA Iron and Gluconate (mostly DTPA) and then the unchelated sulfate compounds for the other micros. I was using his for most of this journal. I ran out a few months ago, so I picked up CSMB and mixed up a batch with added DTPA and Gluconate at a 2:1:1 or 3:1:1 ratio of EDTA iron to those which lasted me up until this week. I just mixed my own micros for the first time yesterday based off of Joe’s recipe and am using that now. Daily dose of:

*Fe DTPA .06
*Fe gluc - .017
Mn - .012 ppm
B - .011 ppm
Zn - .0098 ppm
Cu - .0001 ppm
Mo - .00047 ppm
Ni - .00021 ppm (Ni is optional)
 
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View attachment 195509

I paste this photo from your post above. This is a very interesting phenomena… think should had more time and question dedicated around this issue… what folks think or report cause this issue? right now I have something similar on my own rotalas HRAs… the colors changed from green to sunset orange and now to green again. Is this related to some kind of nutrient levels adaptation? nutrient type adaptation? I have one H. chai and C. Flamingo that are not showing their pink colors too (more like green or original colors of H. araguaia in the case of H. Chai.

Very, very, very interesting…

Cheers from Brazil Pantanal.
I believe it was related to light levels and the fact that I was dosing heavy through the water column rather than mainly feeding them through the substrate in this case.
 
For example, in that most recent full tank shot I gave, I was having issues with the Buce, hygro 53b, meta, AR mini variegated, and mermaid weed. Eventually ended up giving up on the hygro 53b for the time being.
Your plants are looking good man. Thing is that we want to keep a bunch of different plants coming from different parts of the world in the same tank, in top condition. Sometimes that is just quite difficult or simply not possible. I have a list of plants that I know I can grow but not at their best when doing a ducth type/farm tank with high ferts. Some plants are better off being grown in slightly different conditions than the rest.

There’s a hobbyist in the US named Joe Harvey (burr740 on plantedtank forum) who makes his own batches of ferts out of DTPA Iron and Gluconate (mostly DTPA) and then the unchelated sulfate compounds for the other micros.
That’s what I have been doing for over a year now or so. Works well. You can check my journal for the details of the recipe.
 
There’s a hobbyist in the US named Joe Harvey (burr740 on plantedtank forum) who makes his own batches of ferts out of DTPA Iron and Gluconate (mostly DTPA) and then the unchelated sulfate compounds for the other micros. I was using his for most of this journal. I ran out a few months ago, so I picked up CSMB and mixed up a batch with added DTPA and Gluconate at a 2:1:1 or 3:1:1 ratio of EDTA iron to those which lasted me up until this week. I just mixed my own micros for the first time yesterday based off of Joe’s recipe and am using that now. Daily dose of:

*Fe DTPA .06
*Fe gluc - .017
Mn - .012 ppm
B - .011 ppm
Zn - .0098 ppm
Cu - .0001 ppm
Mo - .00047 ppm
Ni - .00021 ppm (Ni is optional)

My recipe in that case is 0.015 Fe+micros EDTA per week. Will try to make a mix of 0.010 Fe EDDHA + 0.060 Fe+micros EDTA and see (concerns in this case are bba stimulation and water tint by EDDHA). Masterline and 2hr Aquarist have very interesting results too so will check and test their micro levels.
 
So it seems like the API Algaefix worked a charm. Within a day or so the hair algae turned a gray dead color and it has not come back. I do believe it lowers the oxygen content in the water a bit, so additional aeration during treatment if you do not have a sump is not a bad idea. Also, might want to do a half dose on one day and then another half dose the day after to mitigate the oxygen depressing. No issues with any of my livestock!

Here's the tank currently:

tempImageSG5Nqy.jpg


Pretty much 100% plant health right now. I've not been happy with the syngonanthus giants, might replace those. I have some tissue culture gratiola viscidula growing out behind it and may replace the syn giants with that. Behind the smaller buces and in front of the erio lineare is another newcomer -- buce dark skeleton king AKA kishii. I know someone growing some awesome submerged kishii with large orange leaves, so I wanted to give it a shot myself.

Couple of other cool recent shots:

Limnophila sp. green wavy
tempImageJOdoFU.jpg


Rotala Macrandra Variegated, which has actually improved with better coloration and fatter leaves since this shot:

IMG_6291.PNG


I got a new milligram scale that I'd definitely recommend to others. It has a 50g capacity and is rock solid to the 0.001 decimal point - https://a.co/d/0uZX5ha. This is the milligram scale I had before - https://a.co/d/itam2Cx. It only had a 20g capacity, and was not accurate at all and would fluctuate a lot. It may have to do with the fact that the tray I was using to weigh out powders on it was constantly pushing it beyond its 20g capacity and the directions on these scales emphasize it's really important not to overload the scale for accuracy purposes. For that reason, I think a 50g capacity milligram scale is much better, because you can take your tray's weight into mind and not overload the scale while also still measuring out at least 20g + worth of powder at a time.

Have some new plants on the way -- going to be replacing the limnophila sp. green wavy with ludwigia white. I love the limnophila, but it doesn't contrast very well with the macrandra and it grows a little faster than I'd like. It should definitely be a more popular plant than it is though. I've tried to grow ludwigia white twice in the past unsuccessfully -- not the easiest plant to convert from emersed, but my tank and skills are a lot better than the last time I tried it so fingers crossed. Also going to be trying out didiplis diandria for the first time behind the bacopa salzmannii sg.
 
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I believe it was related to light levels and the fact that I was dosing heavy through the water column rather than mainly feeding them through the substrate in this case.
I still having this behaviour in Rotala Hras… it’s very funny. Always after a 90% waterchange and water fertilization for the week. Did you still had seen that behaviour in your tank? Or anyone here in this forum guys??

BTW great tank evolution and thanks for the tip on the new scales? (I need one too)

Cheers from Brazil Pantanal.
 
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