A challenge: break these 3 aquascaping rules with a great tank

[Ian Holdich]

Sorry I don't know you and am not aware that you're a pro artist. I'm not going to get into the art debate about aquascaping...however the rule of two thirds is explained well in the above pic IMO. Look at George's project skree, as mike states, probably the most famous aquascape in the uk and probably parts of Europe. Look how he's nailed the ratio....funny that isn't it!

Nature can provide the rule of two thirds perfectly IMO.

 

[Aquadream]

Nature can provide the rule of two thirds perfectly IMO.

Nature does not provide anything of the kind. This is only a human expression.
And by the way those drawings look all different to me. Like adapting the rules each time to fit the theory. I am talking about the focal points. The lines are the same, but the focal point are where it fits the theory.
I don't see the focal points to be the same in any of the mentioned scapes and yet they all fit the same rule of geometry.
Amano have made some scapes that have nothing to point to those rules and they still look magnificent.
But then the guy is a very good observer of nature.

 

[jack-rythm]

And by the way those drawings look all different to me. Like adapting the rules each time to fit the theory. I am talking about the focal points. The lines are the same, but the focal point are where it fits the theory.

I must admit I do agree with this. I felt that each scapes analytical diagrammatic changed every time to suit the scape. But I guess this is exactly the point were all agreeing on. That nothing is a certainty.

I can see this becoming a little like the lighting thread where it becomes more of an argument for the sake of the thread and ending up in a big scape of mush I think what mike has done by explaining his thoughts is brilliant for everyone to see. I found it very interesting indeed. I found even looking at the way he has consistently highlighted things I wouldn't of, very interesting, this doesn't mean he is wrong and nor does it mean I am wrong. Its just another way of looking at something. I do think that the general rules are there as guide, and I do think these help. They help me and they help others. They may not help everyone and some people may think they are pointless... but they would not be a reality if there was no truth in it. Im not a photographer so i dont really have grounds to say this but do photographers not follow the 3 3rds pretty heavily?

 

[Ian Holdich]

Nature does not provide anything of the kind. This is only a human expression.
And by the way those drawings look all different to me. Like adapting the rules each time to fit the theory. I am talking about the focal points. The lines are the same, but the focal point are where it fits the theory.
I don't see the focal points to be the same in any of the mentioned scapes and yet they all fit the same rule of geometry.
Amano have made some scapes that have nothing to point to those rules and they still look magnificent.
But then the guy is a very good observer of nature.

See the 3 initials after my statement..."IMO" you can disagree with my opinion, but it's mine and I'm keeping it.

Art is all about opinions.

 

[jack-rythm]

Art is all about opinions.

Thats why I can never make any money from the bloody stuff

 

[Ian Holdich]

I think this also comes across in styles of aquascaping as well. I'm sure most of us have fave styles of scaping. Not everyone's opinion on style is the same. This is where ukaps wins over other forums. We seem to respects other opinions on scaping and don't tend to shoot down other people's opinions.

 

[Ian Burgess]

Rule of thirds/two thirds, style, balance, diagonals, directional flow, focal points etc etc use it all, disregard it all, use your eyes but scape from the heart, if it feels good, do it.

 

[Aquadream]

Art is all about opinions.

Not quite.
It is about the ability to recreate something and reflect certain idea, emotion and sensation in a way that will make it understandable by many. It comes from within.
When art is related to opinions more than anything else it becomes kitch.

 

[tim]

I like this thread mike, some very useful and valid observations for new aquascapers, nice one mike

 

[Ian Holdich]

Not quite.
It is about the ability to recreate something and reflect certain idea, emotion and sensation in a way that will make it understandable by many. It comes from within.
When art is related to opinions more than anything else it becomes kitch.

Are you expressing an opinion on art here?

My point exactly.

 

[Aquadream]

Are you expressing an opinion on art here?

My point exactly.

So by your opinion you may be Leonardo Da Vinchi. But are you really?
You are generalizing something out of your legue putting everythging down to an opinion.
It is not that simple.

 

[Ian Holdich]

So by your opinion you may be Leonardo Da Vinchi. But are you really?
You are generalizing something out of your legue putting everythging down to an opinion.
It is not that simple.

This is the exact reason why I didn't want to get into the debate around art. We could keep this up all day.

I don't understand how it's out of my league though, you don't know me you don't know what I do. I think it's actually out of your and most peoples league...you don't seem to understand your own trade.

 

[greenink]

Blimey. Did start quite a debate! Here's the exact same grids put over Aquadream's recent IAPLC scape... Seems to me that it conforms pretty well to the 'rules', even if these were nowhere near front of mind.

 

[Aquadream]

Blimey. Did start quite a debate! Here's the exact same grids put over Aquadream's recent IAPLC scape... Seems to me that it conforms pretty well to the 'rules', even if these were nowhere near front of mind.

Nice of you to analyse my recent scape.
It was actually build around different ideas and these rules mentioned here still don't make much sense.
Now on the first example with 1/3 grids. I see on all other pics in the tread at least two focal points mentioned. On my picture you found one only.
The red arrow lines in the last example are also quite conroversial in all pictures you have analysed in the tread.

I can explain how the depth and perspective are achieved in this scape if you would like. You'll see that the basics in this design do not comply any near as much to the well known rules in aquascaping as many would expect.

 

[Aquadream]

This is the exact reason why I didn't want to get into the debate around art. We could keep this up all day.

I don't understand how it's out of my league though, you don't know me you don't know what I do. I think it's actually out of your and most peoples league...you don't seem to understand your own trade.

Ian. I do not have to know you. I have life time experience in arts and people that are involved closely with arts.
If you are convinced that all about art is a matter of opinions then you simply can not be one of those I know for sure to be artists.
Of course I will not ever try to change your opinion, but please accept that out there some people have understanding of arts beyond yours.
Just as I accepted that Tom Barr and Clive are people with much deeper understanding of bio chemistry than me, regardless that I have been diggin in fish tanks for 30 years.
I can promice you that as much I can see how much anyone is an artist those guys can see how much I am a bio chemist by a few simple words.

 

[Ian Holdich]

I never once stated that I have an understanding of art, please read back properly. I do know what I like and what I don't like. This is subjective, as is art. I feel your being a little condescending tbh, and again you haven't really proved to me you understand what art is either. I accept there are people out there that understand art in a way that I don't. Pity you're not one of them.



Time for me to sign out of this discussion as we're going round in circles.

 

[Aquadream]

I never once stated that I have an understanding of art, please read back properly. I do know what I like and what I don't like. This is subjective, as is art. I feel your being a little condescending tbh, and again you haven't really proved to me you understand what art is either. I accept there are people out there that understand art in a way that I don't. Pity you're not one of them.

I actually do remember you in a thread over on asw come to think of it, claiming the same things to others. You also put a lot of backs up over there with you opinions on art. Maybe take a step back and appreciate other people's opinions on art lol.

Time for me to sign out of this discussion as we're going round in circles.

If by your words you do not have understanding of art what gives you the right to summarize it like this?

Those peeps on ASW were just as wrong as you are. Their opinion also yours regarding art is irrelevant as none of you have much practical experience in it.

In the spirit of your attitude we can summarize that your occupation is also matter of opinions. It's just subjective, right?

 

[Ian Holdich]

Wow, have I really summarised art, awesome...I didn't intend that statement to summarise art. Thank you!

This is where you come across as a little condescending...

Those peeps on ASW were just as wrong as you are. Their opinion also yours regarding art is irrelevant as none of you have much practical experience in it.

You really don't know what people do as a day job do you? I know of a few full time artists/graphic designers who are present here and also present in the other thread regarding this matter.

Now can you summarise art, or pm some of your work or can we get back to discussing golden ratios?

So, back to the rule of two thirds....

 

[Aquadream]

Wow, have I really summarised art, awesome...I didn't intend that statement to summarise art. Thank you!

This is where you come across as a little condescending...



You really don't know what people do as a day job do you? I know of a few full time artists/graphic designers who are present here and also present in the other thread regarding this matter.

Now can you summarise art, or pm some of your work or can we get back to discussing golden ratios?

So, back to the rule of two thirds....

The people you mention never came to argue about art in here or in ASW. You did.
Condescending...? So, how about I put aside everything I am. Call my self stupid and crowl in your feet? Would this be less condescending?

 

[jack-rythm]

This has become pathetic

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