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A New Beginning (New Pics & video 10/8/2016) - 180L

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23 Sep 2013
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Ukraine
I think I'd try different results and watch how it impacts.

Your hygrophilla may suffer due to low Ca (calcium) level or overdose of K (potassium). I know you guys don't believe in overdose, and it's hard to tell whether it deficience sometime. So, I'd check Ca first. Do you have any idea how hard is your tap water? I'm mostly interested in GH value if any.
 

Aeropars

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9 Jul 2007
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Leicester
Hi all,

A progress update and I'm afraid its a bit mixed.

My main issues are a lack of growth and some melting of plants. The P. Helferi didnt last long at all a few weeks after my C. Wendtii brown has melted almost completely. Oddly, the green version is doing fine. I also have 2 lots of H. tripartita and I notices very little growth form it so i uprooted at today's water change and it had gone black where it was in the substrate. The one nearer the front of the tank appeared to be fine though. On the up side it seems as thought the browning of the C. Helferi has stopped and stabilised. On top of this I have almost Zero algae... some discolouration of the rocks but I think is is just dust from the cat litter I'm using. If it is diatoms, its like nothing I have seen before and is only appearing on the rocks.

A couple of weeks back I removed the spray bar and put the koralia on the left hand side next to the filter outlet so all the flow is pushing in a single direction. I added another drop checker so I have one on the left and on the right and both are erring towards yellow so it looks like CO2 is high enough. Tonight I've dimmed my lights to 20% but increased the photo period as I was wondering if its too short as its only on properly for 2 hours with 1.5 hour ramp up and down each side of that.

Does anyone have any idea what might be wrong here?

I'll take some more pics tomorrow.
 

Lindy

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Ayrshire, Scotland
I'd put the spray bar along one side of the tank, not along the back. Try having your lights on for 6hrs with no ramp up/down or 5hrs with 30min ramp up and down. Once everything is growing how you want then you could fiddle with ramping. Why such a long ramp up and down period? Makes It hard to know how much light your plants are actually getting. Looks great set up although you probably only need half the light you have lol...
 

Aeropars

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Thanks for the reply.

Yes I was thinking about doing that with the spray bar and having the koralia slightly under it pushing in the same direction. I can direct the flow downwards some more in that case.

I thought the ramping time might offer a more natural effect with sunrise and sunset but I do wonder if my issue are due to light so I'll take your advice and do a 30 minute ramp and 5 hour photo period.

I knew I'd have too much light under the hood but due to having cats I'm not allowed an open top tank (as much as I'd love one) and the spread of light just isnt good enough with 2 units 10cm from the water surface. I'm happy I've not cause an algae fest in the tank with them though so that's one good thing to come out of it!
 

Chris Jackson

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23 Apr 2014
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Falmouth, Cornwall
I counsel patience.....

These plants are adapting to their new environment and emersed grown leaves have to transition into their submersed form, it takes time, some will suffer melt some won't, some might get nipped by the fish...

Until everything is growing well you really should not need to overdo ferts. either because the plants are adjusting rather than growing. Remember that for every change you make it will take days or a week before you really see the results so resist the urge to constantly change things. Give the plants a stable environment but with plenty of water changes during these early weeks.

I like a slow ramp up and down with lighting and it has always worked very well for me. I'm not familiar with your lights but a gradual up and down over 6 hours should be fine. Less intensity is always going to be easier to manage and also makes CO2 much less of a concern. A short bright spell part way through is plenty to keep the more light hungry ones happy.
 

Aeropars

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Thanks for the reply. I've added some already submersed Blyxa Japonica so that can be a true indication of what's actually happening.

Are all plants grown emersed then? I got nearly all from Aqua Essentials but I assumed they were kept submersed!

Incidentally, I know for sure that the stems were being eaten by the Angelfish as the stems right next to the Koralia are perfectly fine. I guess the flow here stops them having a snack on the plants!
 

Sk3lly

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8 Oct 2014
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Windsor, England
A lot of plants are grown emersed where it has access to atmosphere levels of co2. About 300ppm i believe. Plants will grow fast and healthily ensuring the supplier can turnover plants quickly. It also allows us guys to get algae free, snail free, healthy plants! Although we then need to be careful in transitioning them to submersed


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

dw1305

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UKAPS Team
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7 Apr 2008
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nr Bath
Hi all,
I've added some already submersed Blyxa Japonica so that can be a true indication of what's actually happening. Are all plants grown emersed then?
A lot of plants are grown emersed where it has access to atmosphere levels of co2
As "Sk3lly" says they are mainly grown emersed in the nurseries.

This is a "Tropica" plant production video.


In the case of Blyxa spp. I think they are obligate aquatic plants and have to be produced submersed.

cheers Darrel
 

Aeropars

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Thanks Guys.

After upping the light duration I'm now seeing signs of growth and I've cleared a lot of the black rot from the stems. I'll monitor what happens with this.

The brown stuff which I thought was dust from the cat litter looks like its now Diatoms so I'll be getting some Ottos in there to help out with that ASAP.

I was going to take some more pics tonight but the camera battery is dead so I'll get some on Sunday and show how things are progressing.

Despite the issues I'm determined to get this right! I cant see my problems being CO2 or flow but I'll let you guys be the judge of that!

Thanks for the advice so far!
 

Aeropars

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Hi All,

I'm afraid things are getting worse to an extent. I'm having some issues with plans still melting and I have no idea why. Its clearly down to lighting so I've dropped the intensity to 10%. Having read a thread by CEG, I am thinking I may have underestimated the intensity of these LED jobbies that I have on there.

Some plants are having in there but some are melting further. The C. Wendtii green being one that's started losing its leafs.

I'm not sure why though as I believe I have good flow, dosing EI and what appears to be good CO2. If I up the CO2 any more it gives the fish some stress.

I'll get pics tonight when the lights are on.
 

Aeropars

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Hi All,

I've finally gotten round to adding new pics and they are not pretty. While I'm only having a little diatom trouble, the plants are deteriorating massively. I've had a good clear out today of all the ones I thought were beyond saving. Can anyone tell me what the hell to do now? I'm almost certain I have the best CO2 I've ever had and the flow is pretty good too as you can see in the video of the plants swaying. Still getting a 1.1PH drop and lime green drop checker so I'm out of ideas!

20473531868_70e83a8557_b.jpgDSC_0203-Edited16-7 by Lee Parsons, on Flickr
20040606663_11f0983253_b.jpgDSC_0210-Edited16-7 by Lee Parsons, on Flickr
20635287396_b105e20cd3_b.jpgDSC_0204-Edited16-7 by Lee Parsons, on Flickr
20038986334_58e358de0b_b.jpgDSC_0205-Edited16-7 by Lee Parsons, on Flickr
20661556125_cf84a5b826_b.jpgDSC_0206-Edited16-7 by Lee Parsons, on Flickr
20635286146_13d19d067f_b.jpgDSC_0207-Edited16-7 by Lee Parsons, on Flickr
20635285886_e972e2db75_b.jpgDSC_0208-Edited16-7 by Lee Parsons, on Flickr
20652337782_13efbd8f15_b.jpgDSC_0209-Edited16-7 by Lee Parsons, on Flickr
 

Ryan Thang To

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18 Jul 2013
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London
im sorry to say that is way too much flow. i know flow is important but yours is overkill. the co2 is blown away not enuogh time for plants to take it in. try taking the wave maker out and move your diffuser near the intake or move it around to find the best spot.

is your 1 point ph drop when your light come on or at the end of the photo period? co2 drop checker i don't use them i have a ph metre lets you know current ph when turn on .

cheers
ryan
 
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Aeropars

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Hi Edvet. Yes, that was what I thought as well. Particularly as the CO2 is also dissolved in the water column.

The tank has been set up for over 4 weeks now and there has been steady degradation in the plant, some have already not survived. Does this not indicate that there is an issue? I'm happy to be patient but I've never had plant melt quite like it although, granted, I have never used LED lighting before, just 4 x T8's. I'm assuming this was where things went wrong with me putting the lights on too high when they are only 10CM form the surface of the water. I'd be very interested to know what my PAR values are!
 

Aeropars

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Hi Aaron,

How far form the surface did you have them? I'm running them balanced on the centre brace on a Juwel Rio 180. When I started running the tank I ran all 4 at 30%. Because of them being close to the surface there was some light overlap but not a lot, particularly at the front and back of the tank.

Now I'm running all 4 at 10% for 6.5 hours with a 30 minute ramp up and down.
 
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