plantnoobdude
Member
Get some more plants in😈
Pantanal
Pedicellata
Praetermissa
Red cross
Wallichii
Interested in seeing what they do.
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A reflection - putting it all into one scape
- Thread starter JoshP12
- Start date
Pantanal
Pedicellata
Praetermissa
Red cross
Wallichii
Interested in seeing what they do.
Hehe
The last version of the tank had the 50+ species of 40+ … lots in it. This was supposed to have a certain look! 🤣.
Once we stabilize and I get the look I’d like, then I’ll probably add more species in.
Wallichi as per the other photos is the same system. And same with pantanal.
There is some pantanal under the same column, same substrate except a spraybar - same light (I have another shot where they are redder I’ll have to find):
Is Red Cross - ludwigia super red?
I’d have to source the ammania.
plantnoobdude
Member
DONT CARE MORE PLANTS.
Pantanal looks a bit pale? Especially under Such high light. Is it Cuba?
rotala Red Cross, supposedely one of the most difficult plants, even more so than pedicellata.
Haha!! Yes you are right it is inclinata not pantanal - I’d have to source pantanal. I thought it was when I bought it … but recall actually asking the same question and used christels book to help.
I remember I looked into sourcing these but I just didn’t feel like spending the money to get them in - no one local has them.
And for whatever reason the shops don’t get them here.
Probably rarity.
I’ll keep an eye on sourcing them …
I remember I looked into sourcing these but I just didn’t feel like spending the money to get them in - no one local has them.
And for whatever reason the shops don’t get them here.
Probably rarity.
I’ll keep an eye on sourcing them …
Becoming more and more convinced that these 10 celcius water changes are “resetting” the tank - kill a layer of plant skin, spawn temporary algae, have it fall off, change water .. repeat the process … while all new growth is spotless.
Mixing valve comes before new year 👍 - will be able to confirm this.
Just for notes - pH at 1 hour ish after lights on is about 6.1/6.2 so perfect imo for bacteria and rubisco etc.
Once I clear the water, I’m cutting the co2 progressively 4 hours before lights off to get that pH flying up for end of photo.
Co2 with lights so zero ramp time - lights 30 min ramp up to 100% for total 10 hours 30 min ramp down as well.
Fish coming in soon. After mixing valve and back to back waters and observation for 2 days, probably one more water, and observation - if it stays clear. We’re gold.
All I have agreed on is high quality crystals and Otto cats simply because I love those catfish and I also like shrimp but have always just throw in a litter for functionality vs aesthetic.
Mixing valve comes before new year 👍 - will be able to confirm this.
Just for notes - pH at 1 hour ish after lights on is about 6.1/6.2 so perfect imo for bacteria and rubisco etc.
Once I clear the water, I’m cutting the co2 progressively 4 hours before lights off to get that pH flying up for end of photo.
Co2 with lights so zero ramp time - lights 30 min ramp up to 100% for total 10 hours 30 min ramp down as well.
Fish coming in soon. After mixing valve and back to back waters and observation for 2 days, probably one more water, and observation - if it stays clear. We’re gold.
All I have agreed on is high quality crystals and Otto cats simply because I love those catfish and I also like shrimp but have always just throw in a litter for functionality vs aesthetic.
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3x in a row - water change, gets cloudy, looks odd, new growth great, leave it, start to explode, start to clear up, trim, water change and start all over. Valve delay slightly but will be about 1 week until next water change (waiting for valve) and will not trim likely until I see how the tank reaponse.
Convinced of the cold water kill. We will see.
Monte Carlo growing again now for the third time. Will be real happy if we get the whole thing carpeted from that clump.
Convinced of the cold water kill. We will see.
Monte Carlo growing again now for the third time. Will be real happy if we get the whole thing carpeted from that clump.
Feels nice to be able to water change again. Mixing valve installed water comes in at a perfect 23 Celsius.
The whole time we’ve been changing with relatively icy water - wish I could back and redo properly! But all is well. I’d also NOT use those bags for support as high as I did. Is a massive pain to replant. Need at least 3-4 inches of soil on top of the bags.
After playing around a bit with scraping some glass from before.
Buddy had leftover helferi and some old repens and bonsai scraps so I tossed them in. Monte Carlo will prevail …
And we begin to carpet! There will come a time when I completely top these plants and add a bunch of soil on top just to make re planting easier just not sure when.
I do have 2 tiny guppies in there they are very happy. Co2 is set perfect.
Here is his tank (chihiros light - established it with 3 primes before swapping for spectrum - same params/system as mine).
The whole time we’ve been changing with relatively icy water - wish I could back and redo properly! But all is well. I’d also NOT use those bags for support as high as I did. Is a massive pain to replant. Need at least 3-4 inches of soil on top of the bags.
After playing around a bit with scraping some glass from before.
Buddy had leftover helferi and some old repens and bonsai scraps so I tossed them in. Monte Carlo will prevail …
And we begin to carpet! There will come a time when I completely top these plants and add a bunch of soil on top just to make re planting easier just not sure when.
I do have 2 tiny guppies in there they are very happy. Co2 is set perfect.
Here is his tank (chihiros light - established it with 3 primes before swapping for spectrum - same params/system as mine).
MichaelJ
Member
Hi @JoshP12 Crazy growth!
.Target dosed 100% at water change and 20% of total dosed daily
Potassium nitrate to nitrate 2ppm
Potassium phosphate to phosphate 1ppm
Calcium 9.4 ppm source water
Magnesium 3 ppm source water and a bit of Epsom salt
Potassium 5ppm from salts above and potassium sulphate
Micro:
Csm+b Fe proxy .015 ppm daily made from larger and concentrated solution to help get proportions right!
Hopefully with some consistency we can get the tank gin clear.
A few weeks out. It has stopped getting cloudy cloudy cloudy after water change but it’s not 100% — probably since I hacked down the whole forest all at once. Trim here and there and a bit of consistency should finish up the water quality.
Oh and KH around 1.5 degree.
And pH at peak minimum around 6.1/6.2
Co2 with lights. Lights 10h - 30 min ramp up and down on either end. 100%. 1 is broken lol cool white channels don’t work.
Temp swings up to 26 mid photoperiod with heaters turning on at lights on then back down to 23 by night.
Water change water ~ 23 now consistent.
Attachments
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MichaelJ
Member
No the chelated secondary micros + boron by Plantex.
PlantGuy's Micronutrient Trace element mix (CSM +B)
Guaranteed Minimum Analysis Chelated Iron (Fe) (actual) 7% Chelated Manganese (Mn) (actual) 2% Chelated Zinc (Zn) (actual) 0.4% Chelated Copper (Cu) (actual) 0.1% Boron (B) (actual) 1.3% Molybdenum (Mo) (actual) 0.06% EDTA (Ethylene diamine tetraacetate) 42% DTPA (Diethylene triamine...
theplantguy.ca
I barely have the patience to weigh out nitrate and magnesium let alone all those little bits. I had a moment probably 7 months ago? Where I used a dilute solution of csm (pretty large dose and very little grams in the water) and after some time I saw my non-rooted plants (epiphytes with no soil or in this case hydrocotyle on a surface and not in soil) developed what I thought was a manganese deficiency. Leaving all things constant, best I could, I just made a new solution - same dosage - but super concentrated so lots of grams in there (to get highest probability that I got good “proportions”). That was after chatting with what Greggz did a bit. I debated buying all the salts, sourced them, placed the order, and cancelled. This experiment if you will is similar to leaning the column outright and watching as all I dosed was micros and MAYBE potassium can’t remember - months later I held off N and P longer so I could trigger cyano then fix it - it worked. Digression.
I didn’t want a chemistry lab in my house - I also don’t like having glut lying around - and so I opted not to buy all the individual salts.
So people like @plantnoobdude playing with the individual salts have much more experience with those than I would. But with enough observation, and taking all their experiences in account, it’s very reasonable to say “CSM concentrated is close enough for me”.
To be honest, my single experience of fixing the manganese was enough for me to say “that’s good enough”.
Even Dennis Wong has said he doesn’t like chelated micros and seachem and Tropica (I think can’t recall) use sulphate salts.
I’m just a little bit lazy lol. + just throw it in the soil, let the roots figure it out, and dose a little K to help with the nutrient movement. Easier that way than playing with the column. Unless you’re in the throes of discovery! In this case, get the goggles and the 15 decimal point scale and the inert substrate - you’re in it for the long haul!
MichaelJ
Member
Very similar to the NilocG Plantex I am using in one of my tanks. The one you're using contains slightly more Boron and contains DTPA in addition to EDTA.
I my so-called lean tank I am getting just the micros that Tropica Specialize provides - tiny amounts of everything, but seemingly enough. I don't think Tropica contains any of the common Chelates... which is sort of interesting, if so, considering how much we tend to debate chelates around here
(@Happi may know).Fascinating. Can you speak a bit more to the Manganese situation... was that a deficiency? and if so, how did it materialize?
Cheers,
Michael
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Tropica Certainly doesn't use the common EDTA Chelate that is most commonly used in chelated products. they use something much better which is combination of both DTPA and HEEDTA.I don't think Tropica contains any of the common Chelates... which is sort of interesting, if so, considering how much we tend to debate chelates around here
seachem uses So4/Cl based traces and Fe gluconate for Iron, they believe in whatever plant could easily use rather than spending more energy using it. Tropica on the other hand uses Chelates, so its truly a good fit for those who like to dose once a week or less often.
Post in thread 'Finally ... feeling happy
.'Finally ... feeling happy :).
May 26 photo has the white veins on the hydrocotyle. I found the post!
Not all of them had it just that clump and that clump wasn’t anchored in soil. I don’t have explicit photos of this it was memory.
In retrospect, I’m not sure why I thought manganese and why I said it was “fixed” - I did not take notes and if it was truly a micro deficiency it would be immobile and not fix itself. So I can’t recall if it didn’t happen again or if it did fix it self. A bit of an important piece of info.
I have certainly been dubiously convinced of something in the past and changed my mind but I feel no impetus to change here.
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In regards to manganese and immobile via mobile: mobile means it can break it down and re use it - immobile means it can’t.
In what relation does it have to do with: if it grows deficient, then has access, could it manufacture what it needs and “replace” what was missed?
Suppose A was required for the leaf to grow perfectly but it was “fine” without A (chlorosis) and A is immobile, if you give A could the plant fill in the chlorisis (just pretend) even though A is immobile (in the sense we use it and mean it)? I think so but @dw1305 ?
This would explain my memory rhat upon dosing proper micro, the white veins went away. @MichaelJ
In what relation does it have to do with: if it grows deficient, then has access, could it manufacture what it needs and “replace” what was missed?
Suppose A was required for the leaf to grow perfectly but it was “fine” without A (chlorosis) and A is immobile, if you give A could the plant fill in the chlorisis (just pretend) even though A is immobile (in the sense we use it and mean it)? I think so but @dw1305 ?
This would explain my memory rhat upon dosing proper micro, the white veins went away. @MichaelJ
That water change tube was coated in green - I left during all maintenance purposefully … receding on its own now at a pretty fast rate.
Tank clearing right up. Pearls ~ 20mins.
Going to start with some red shrimp
.Can only source black crystals at the moment and have no interest in increasing any minerals in the tank to keep them. Maybe another tank another day.
It feels great to be able to change water again and not induce an ice age and an algae storm each time 😂.
Slowly replanting and topping and cleaning the gross bottoms.
This is right after water change so a bit messy but will get a shot later this week after settles.
PSA: remove the jelly … I found a chunk of Monte Carlo roots STILL IN THE JELLY (as I was cleaning up the substrate a bit).
🤦♂️
This is right after water change so a bit messy but will get a shot later this week after settles.
PSA: remove the jelly … I found a chunk of Monte Carlo roots STILL IN THE JELLY (as I was cleaning up the substrate a bit).
🤦♂️
Last night. Noticeable change in clarity even since startup.
Next steps over the next week or so:
Blue - next steps/trim … get it all the same height and low low low hopefully has some roots set up since replant and the tops will replant for density
Purple - hasn’t been touched will top and replant
Green - clear divide where you can see the faulty light vs good light
Next steps over the next week or so:
Blue - next steps/trim … get it all the same height and low low low hopefully has some roots set up since replant and the tops will replant for density
Purple - hasn’t been touched will top and replant
Green - clear divide where you can see the faulty light vs good light
Now prioritize maintenance and trimming until Monte Carlo gets a foothold and spreads.
Shrimp and fish are good and healthy!
Probably prioritize some good waters over the next few weeks until plants take off then ease into weekly’s while we wait until the scape takes shape and carpet grows.
