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A reflection - putting it all into one scape
- Thread starter JoshP12
- Start date
John q
Member
Maybe one day seachem will give up its secrets. It could possibly be Sodium dithionite, either way my chemistry knowledge isn't grade A so would probably need to figure out how both substances react with ascorbic acid.
I hope not : Sodium dithionite - Wikipedia
Lol. That stuff scores a 3.
Thiosulfate: Sodium thiosulfate - Wikipedia
Gives us a 1.
Any inkling as to why Darrel?
I mean if it’s as simple as Not enough ferts, you could just add EI 😂.
But in all seriousness, how important is that dark time (insert clause on species dependent) - more importantly why?
Hi all,
cheers Darrel
Not really, I know some plants don't do well under 24 hours light, but I don't know why. You need to regulate day length to control flowering in Pointsettia, Chrysanthemums etc. but I'm not sure about vegetative growth. Most commercial glasshouse crops <"are grown under 16 hours light">, so I assume that is the most cost effective regime for most plants.
cheers Darrel
Thanks Darrel -- all I have is intuition here: they get tired of being pushed and then make mistakes (it's not in evolution to have had 24h day -- and then as I writing this, I Google it .. looks like we do have some places Abisko in Sweden.
Any plants we can investigate there?
Given thiosulfate reduces hypochlorite, becoming oxidised to sulphate:
4 NaClO + Na2S2O3 + 2 NaOH → 4 NaCl + 2 Na2SO4 + H2O
It would seem fair to assume this has to be in Seachem Safe and Seachem Prime.
Combined with a bisulfite based ammonia conditioner e.g. sodium formaldehyde bisulfite and alcohol as an ammonia removal agent, you have ammonia reduction. That’s been around for years.
Not sure what else they would put in there.
There is a patent in the US that combines modified chabazite into commercial dechlorinator for fresh and seawater for further efficiency.
1 week post water change:
Every old leaf has basically turned white (except arcuata and Macrandra) — starting to wonder if they got bleached by the cannons 😂. Could be mobile nutrient piece as well … but why not Macrandra and arcuata? Perhaps they can handle it better naturally though hra and Rotala green should have handled it just fine ….
In any case, depending on how long I leave the tank between water changes, remineralization/dosing lands anywhere from 110-130 TDS.
I see no algae. No diatoms. I see new growth on all plants - arcuata growing the fastest, then Rotala green/hra tied, next would be Monte Carlo (who still hasn’t thrown more new leaves than the initial burst), then Macrandra/helferi tied for last place.
20h photo seems to provide no issues thus far though - could be unrelated - growth rates on hra and green have sped up.
Starting to get some red tips on hra 😂 … curious what my PAR is.
Every old leaf has basically turned white (except arcuata and Macrandra) — starting to wonder if they got bleached by the cannons 😂. Could be mobile nutrient piece as well … but why not Macrandra and arcuata? Perhaps they can handle it better naturally though hra and Rotala green should have handled it just fine ….
In any case, depending on how long I leave the tank between water changes, remineralization/dosing lands anywhere from 110-130 TDS.
I see no algae. No diatoms. I see new growth on all plants - arcuata growing the fastest, then Rotala green/hra tied, next would be Monte Carlo (who still hasn’t thrown more new leaves than the initial burst), then Macrandra/helferi tied for last place.
20h photo seems to provide no issues thus far though - could be unrelated - growth rates on hra and green have sped up.
Starting to get some red tips on hra 😂 … curious what my PAR is.
Wookii
Member
I think the AI Prime is around 100 PAR per unit at 24 inches (610mm) - how high are your lights from the substrate? Obviously where your lights overlap the PAR will be summed. I know you said a couple of them have some issues and so might not be quite running at 100% (?).
Hi all,
Looking back <"to 2010"> I can see that I actually foresaw some of the potential problems with tissue cultured plants.
<"How to improve resiliency of in-vitro plants?">.
cheers Darrel
It could be Clive's <"Klingon Photo Torpedo">, but it might also be <"ammonia burn">, or a combination of both. I've not bought any in vitro plants for the tank, but if I did I'd be very reluctant to put them into a <"high light / high nutrient environment">.
Looking back <"to 2010"> I can see that I actually foresaw some of the potential problems with tissue cultured plants.
<"How to improve resiliency of in-vitro plants?">.
cheers Darrel
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By every account, I seem to have done everything wrong:
1) 20h photoperiod as of now
2) half a bottle of miracle gro - the soil smelled like manure (I grew up beside a farm so I’m rather familiar with this smell)
3) the soil was left for at least a week in a high ammonia environment, so any bacterial assemblage probably died
4) 4x lights pushing some of the highest PAR on the market over 2.5 feet of tank.
5) 10 inches of substrate radically increasing PAR at substrate
6) didn’t bother removing 3/4 of the jelly off in vitro plants
7) bought in vitro on discount
8) my potassium is “off balance”
9) my temp fluctuates during photoperiod
10) my co2 isn’t stable before lights on or during
11) I water change mid photoperiod and pay no attention to co2 stability during this time
Yet I see no issues? Anyone see something that I’m missing? Any predictions?
I hope no one says ya but you don’t have fish (I am waiting on this as any responsible fish keeper should at this point of any tank).
1) 20h photoperiod as of now
2) half a bottle of miracle gro - the soil smelled like manure (I grew up beside a farm so I’m rather familiar with this smell)
3) the soil was left for at least a week in a high ammonia environment, so any bacterial assemblage probably died
4) 4x lights pushing some of the highest PAR on the market over 2.5 feet of tank.
5) 10 inches of substrate radically increasing PAR at substrate
6) didn’t bother removing 3/4 of the jelly off in vitro plants
7) bought in vitro on discount
8) my potassium is “off balance”
9) my temp fluctuates during photoperiod
10) my co2 isn’t stable before lights on or during
11) I water change mid photoperiod and pay no attention to co2 stability during this time
Yet I see no issues? Anyone see something that I’m missing? Any predictions?
I hope no one says ya but you don’t have fish (I am waiting on this as any responsible fish keeper should at this point of any tank).
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Wookii
Member
You've created an environment where even algae and diatoms can't survive? 😂 (joking!)
It takes time I guess, its still early days - you see loads of tanks in the algae section that seem to be fine for several weeks, and then 'boom' - loads of issues erupt. If you don't get some sort of algae explosion at some point I'll be very surprised, but who knows.
Yes, please don't put any animals anywhere near this tank until a) you know you have no ammonia in the water column, and b) you know what your CO2 levels are. It's one thing to run blind as a plant only experiment, but anther to stake animal health on it.
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That one is faulty but seems to be ok right now (just the cool white channel).
Flickering haven’t observed since I mentioned it on the other.
16inches to lowest point on substrate. Probably 12-14 at highest point.
Wookii
Member
Well fag packet calculation, because of inverse square law, at the highest substrate point, that's roughly half the distance (of the 100 PAR measurement), which quadruples the light intensity. So your 100 PAR AI prime goes up to 400 PAR, times 2 is 800 PAR, and doesn't account for any light from the other two on the other side of the tank. They could jointly be contributing another 400 PAR or more perhaps (still in fag packet calcs territory), so 1200 PAR+?
I gotta find a meter 😂.
John q
Member
Well if this tank doesn't go pear shaped you'll have certainly rewritten the rule book. 😁
Hi all,
Some ponds, in areas of high pollution, were entirely clear, and when they went to do some ground truthing, they found that this wasn't because they had low levels of pollution, but because they were so hypertrophic that not even algae could grow in them.
<"Exploring the potential value of satellite remote sensing to monitor chlorophyll-a for US lakes and reservoirs - Environmental Monitoring and Assessment">
cheers Darrel
That isn't quite as absurd as you might imagine. In the mid-west of the USA they used satellite images of ponds and assessed their greeness as an indication of the level of agricultural nutrient pollution (eutrophication).
Some ponds, in areas of high pollution, were entirely clear, and when they went to do some ground truthing, they found that this wasn't because they had low levels of pollution, but because they were so hypertrophic that not even algae could grow in them.
<"Exploring the potential value of satellite remote sensing to monitor chlorophyll-a for US lakes and reservoirs - Environmental Monitoring and Assessment">
cheers Darrel
You've made me have a good laugh!
The part I find counter intuitive is that my plants absolutely beautiful and thriving.
So is it perhaps that they are so darn healthy that nothing else can compete?
I will concede and run tests if we think it is appropriate. What do we want tested? I use the Hagen master kit.
Let's hope. The thing is, I used my framework of thinking (I'll try to compile some major posts that illustrate it) to build this system. Every day that the plants grow and the tank matures, we are closer to it not failing.
The marriage between Rich and Lean: Everyone is right
Ahh, young Josh: Phosphate is the king of the planted tank <-- each nutrient carries a different weight that influences of metabolism
Classic: Lean dosing pros and cons <-- on the way to a conceptual framework
I’ll get more - I think if this all works out, then I’ll properly draft everything.
In any case:
Almost ran out of co2 (was using an old tank whatever was left from last time)— and had to change the tank …then rubber seal went missing (was stuck on old co2 tank) so lost another 1/4 tank of co2 from the new one. Added Teflon tape but was irrelevant once I realized rubber seal was gone. All set now.
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