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A river revived...

Anubia

Member
Joined
6 Oct 2010
Messages
57
Location
South West - Devon
Hi Guys...newbie of sorts but have been enjoying the forum threads of the guru's amongst us and learning bucket loads, which is what this fine forum is about.

I have had some success in tropical fish keeping and have had a nano cube tank in my living room for the last 6 months. Limited space and being a dad to Mia aged 3 limits my time, but I enjoy the hobby tremendously and wanted to create a planted aqauscape ( hopefully looking like a flow of a river with tree stumps and loose strata, planted low tech) for shrimp only. Lame excuse for wanting and buying a 2nd tank really ......

Whilst perusing the wife's whiteboard for tasks still to do within the house ;) I decided (no re-phrase that the wife decided) that the living room required a new paint job and the current nano was de-comissioned off the sideboard, fish and CRS (grade a's) sold to the LFS. Empty tank now sits in the back bedroom awaiting my thought process on which way to go....The wife's thought process being Dulux paint charts, rollers and flexible friend at the ready. My thought process being - Do I go bogwood, slate, black fine gravel or paddle stone hardscape, fine sand / Maui fine gravel........

Fauna being the other question - decent grade CRS or a Sulawesi shrimp setup ?

Well the process continues with the living room now having a feature wall with Cranberry and the remaining walls Egyption Cotton and new Laura A lamp shades. The Nano - having the back painted black, gravel purchased, plants ordered and mosses attached to the bogwood of choice.

http://s1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb433/Anubia22/

I will hopefully setup and plant out over the next few days and will provide an equipment list, plant list and pics once I suss out how to attach photo's to a journal.

Thx for reading....
 
As this will be a shrimp only tank (breeding colony) I could do a very simple aquascape but I do want it to represent a river flow so will hardscape and plant accordingly.

The issue being that I want to utilise a sponge filter for better baterial load and a food grazing area for shrimplets.
Although hiding this will be a tad difficult in such a limited nano tank, so you will just have to go with the look I implement.
No doubt a HOB filter might appease the more aquascaped forum members but I do want to try a sponge filter setup.

Equipment list almost confirmed although I do have a quandry about the heater.

Wave Cubo 30cm all glass tank
Maxi-jet 400 attached to a JAD medium sponge filter with customised spray bar.
Wave Solaris 18W light
Heater - currently using a Fluval but this is restricted to 25 degrees and may have to up the anti if I do go with the Sulawesi shrimp setup as these do prefer a higher temp - 27> 30 degrees.

Thoughts are either a Aquael 50w Heater or Aquael Plastic Neo Heater 50w or go with a new FluvalE model. Size is limited to about 18cm . Thoughts or reviews welcome... :thumbup:

Substrate - JBL Pro-flow
Top layer - Unipac - Limpopo fine sand (black) This because what ever shrimp species I opt for will show either CRS or Cardina Dennerli off really well.
Hardscape - Slate or pebbles...?????

Plants -

Pogostemon Helferi
Pogostemon Erectus
Staurogyne sp
Anubia's from de-comm'd tank
Vesicularia ferriei 'Weeping Moss & Java Moss

Will post photo-bucket links once planted up and tank has settled. ( Did my first post have viewable photo links) :?:

Thx for reading...
 
Look forward to seeing this! I much prefer natural looking setups to the mini-landscapes with litle bonsai trees and waterfalls...

In photobucket, hover over the photo you want to insert and a litle box appears below the photo with the html codes etc. Right click on the bottom one (IMG) and copy (it'll highlight blue). You can then paste the photo directly into the post instead of having to follow links. I'm useless at giving instructions so you'll probably end up in the CIA computers or something!
 
Hi Jo...thx for the info and I'll attempt to be bold in my scaping although this is meant to a be a shrimp breeding environment with an attempt of aquascaping....Hope my little scape is not to minimalistic and twee( my tree stump is not a Bonsai....Its a rotten hulk of a Quercus Robus)

Cannot believe how long I washed through the Limpopo sand... I will not be swimming in the Limpopo as the muck that came out was un-believable..

nanoUkapsjournalday11.jpg


Started at 17:00 hrs this afternoon and have just turned on the Maxi-jet so tank is full of bubbles and remnants of the Limpopo dust...Plants were a right royal pain in the derriere even with forceps and I now know why some of the guru's on the forum plant up 60cm tanks, more room for the ham fisted and big knuckle brigade...Yes us men :oops:

Tank will now cycle for about 4 wks with water changes afoot in readiness of a balanced, algea free 8) shrimp haven. My little river biotope revived....Well we can all dream can't we :!:

I hope I have linked the pictures correctly and they are withih this post ? Apologies for the photo quality but it was a quick point & click session.

NanoUkapsjournalday1.jpg


Nanoclose-upUkapsday1.jpg


Please place comments good, fair & bad as this is the first attempt at a planted aquascape after months of reading the super journals & posts on UKAps..

Thank-you for perusing...
 
Very nice and well thought out setup indeed. Looks great. Good luck with the Sulawesi's, I've sadly yet to see anyone to get them to live past a month or so so will be great if you succeed. I'm always curious about the 'sponge filters' as to how they're sold - do they come as just the sponge or does the tube come with it too? Do they specify the diameter of the pipe for the filter?

Cheers,
Neil
 
NeilW said:
Very nice and well thought out setup indeed. Looks great. Good luck with the Sulawesi's, I've sadly yet to see anyone to get them to live past a month or so so will be great if you succeed. I'm always curious about the 'sponge filters' as to how they're sold - do they come as just the sponge or does the tube come with it too? Do they specify the diameter of the pipe for the filter?

Hi Neil...Thx for your comments....

Regarding your query... I'm new to sponge filtration as well as I'm used to external hob and canister models. I've read good reports on the bacterial load that a sponge filter can provide within a shrimp biotope hence the installation.

My setup is using a JAD medium sponge which comes with a tube that you can interface with an external/hob or powerjet pump, although it didn't seem to fit any of the diameter tubing I had in stock, so I had to procure a rubber dongle interface from my LFS(to retro fit the Maxi-jet 400 and the tube provided by JAD. Looks like this setup is working ok as after the water change this evening water params are stabilising. Not sure how well they filter though ?

I will run / mature this tank for about 8 > 10 wks before introducing some Sulawesi's. I have read they are difficult to keep and do hope that I can get some from a German breeder that I have been recommended. These should be European tank bred rather than wild.

I have been corresponding with them to ensure my PH, Temp, GH & KH and TDS is what they have been using within their breeding tanks.

Plants seem to have setlled in well and are starting to look like they are showing some growth, mosses have not died off and hopefully will establish themselves on the bogwood.

Lighting regime is only from 10:00 till 20:00 hrs at present and no sign of algea blooms or the dreaded BA.. Flow from the customised spray bar looks like it's hitting most parts of the tank.

Will leave another week before planting some Marsilea Hirsuta in the foreground.

Thx for reading..
 
Hi Luke...Thx for the comments, always appreciated.

The Wave Cubo is a 30 litre-ish tank. Great for a small colony of shrimp and selective shrimp breeding.

They also do a slightly larger footprint (rectangle) 45cm tank which I'm recycling for a small group of CRS and nano fish setup.

I'df love to have bigger tanks but due to limited space and the challenge of keeping good params I've always gone for the nano setups. :crazy:

Thx for reading...
 
Anubia said:
I'df love to have bigger tanks but due to limited space and the challenge of keeping good params I've always gone for the nano setups. :crazy:

Thx for reading...

actually larger tanks are alot more stable than smaller nano's. you have far greater room for error due to the volume of water. imagine putting 1 drop of ammonia into a 20L tank.. its going to be disastrous. then imagine doing the same to a 400L tank. still bad, but it will be diluted more.
 
Hi Nick....Think either my edit wasn't clear or that you have mis-read my quotation.

The challenge for me is keeping the smaller nano due to the difficulty of keeping water params perfect..

Totally understand that you bigger tank enthusiasts have an easier time regarding water balance. :lol:
 
Update is that I've carried out yet another water change (75%) and tank is clearing nicely.

I've added R/O water with added Malawi buffer and this brings my PH up to around 8.0 > 8.2.

Nitrates, nitrites and Ammonia all around 0.0 ppm and TDS is around 180...so it's looking ok...

Added some Marsilea and hope this copes with this being a low tech setup with no C02...?? Big ask really !!!

Sponge filter looks like its doing its job although I have no fauna in so didn't really expect much gunge when rinsed out in the bucket of decanted water.

Am in discussion with the German breeders and tank stats are similar to the breeders setup. Not sure how long I'll cycle this tank and let it stabilise before procuring some Sulawesi Cardinea Dennerli..

Some enthusiats will stand their tanks for over 10 wks before introducing shrimp...

Still om the hunt for a heater I like that will give me the range 28 >30 and will fit such a small nano.
 
Hi all,
Nice tank, and I wish you the best of luck, I've never kept the shrimps, but I think water quality is probably the key to success.
I've added R/O water with added Malawi buffer and this brings my PH up to around 8.0 > 8.2.
I'm not sure this is what you want. The water parameters for lake Matano show that it actually has (compared to Lake Malawi) low conductivity, little carbonate buffering and relatively low general hardness <http://www.crusta-fauna.org/shrimp-index/caridina-dennerli/>. Lake Malawi is very carbonate rich, with calcium being the predominant alkali metal.

There is a scientific paper about the water in Lake Matano, Crowe et al. (2008) "The biogeochemistry of tropical lakes: A case study from Lake Matano, Indonesia" <http://www.aslo.org:8081/lo/pdf/vol_53/issue_1/0319.pdf> and the water is very strange stuff indeed.
The superficial geology of the catchment basin is dominated by nickeliferrous lateritic soils (which contain up to 60% iron oxides) that have developed on ultramafic rocks of ophiolitic origin (Golightly 1981). As a result, the sediments of the Malili Lakes are Fe-rich and can contain more than 20 weight percent Fe (hydr)oxides (Crowe et al. 2004). In addition to the ultramafic rocks, limestones and cherts outcrop along the southern shore of Lake Matano.
I know a little bit about geology <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramafic_rock>, and "ultramafic" suggest to me that I would use magnesium as my predominant alkaline metal ("Epsom salts" - magnesium sulphate is a good cheap source - MgSO4.7H2O). You could up the trace element and iron addition as well, but I'd try and keep the water below about 200 microS.

cheers Darrel
 
dw1305 said:
Hi all,
Nice tank, and I wish you the best of luck, I've never kept the shrimps, but I think water quality is probably the key to success.
I've added R/O water with added Malawi buffer and this brings my PH up to around 8.0 > 8.2.
I'm not sure this is what you want. The water parameters for lake Matano show that it actually has (compared to Lake Malawi) low conductivity, little carbonate buffering and relatively low general hardness <http://www.crusta-fauna.org/shrimp-index/caridina-dennerli/>. Lake Malawi is very carbonate rich, with calcium being the predominant alkali metal.

There is a scientific paper about the water in Lake Matano, Crowe et al. (2008) "The biogeochemistry of tropical lakes: A case study from Lake Matano, Indonesia" <http://www.aslo.org:8081/lo/pdf/vol_53/issue_1/0319.pdf> and the water is very strange stuff indeed.
The superficial geology of the catchment basin is dominated by nickeliferrous lateritic soils (which contain up to 60% iron oxides) that have developed on ultramafic rocks of ophiolitic origin (Golightly 1981). As a result, the sediments of the Malili Lakes are Fe-rich and can contain more than 20 weight percent Fe (hydr)oxides (Crowe et al. 2004). In addition to the ultramafic rocks, limestones and cherts outcrop along the southern shore of Lake Matano.
I know a little bit about geology <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramafic_rock>, and "ultramafic" suggest to me that I would use magnesium as my predominant alkaline metal ("Epsom salts" - magnesium sulphate is a good cheap source - MgSO4.7H2O). You could up the trace element and iron addition as well, but I'd try and keep the water below about 200 microS.

cheers Darrel

Thx for the conclusive read Darrel...I agree with your concerns that keeping the Sulawesi is not going to be an easy ride, but hey that is the challenge I like. I like your idea of experimenting with Epsom salts and intend to run a few water tests.

Winter is now closing in and I have decided not to ship the shrimp from Germany at present. The risk and outlay and possible mortality rate is something I wouldn't want to share at present.

As for the tank & plants - The Staurogyne P. has gone through it's melt / brown spots stage and will hopefully pick up as this is a low tech setup ...

I will probably change the water params (PH,Temp) and introduce some good grade SS CRS shrimp for now and look at the spring for a Sulawesi setup.
 
Hi all,
Anubia wrote
I agree with your concerns that keeping the Sulawesi is not going to be an easy ride, but hey that is the challenge I like.
Lovely job, we all like a challenge, I've actually just read one of your posts on a shrimp forum, so I know you are trying to do this properly.

I'm sure a lot of the difficulties with the Sulawesi shrimps are water issues, and if you can find the right mix of salts to replicate the water they may become a lot "easier".

PM me if you want any strange salts, we should have some Nickel salts etc in the Chem. Store.

cheers Darrel
 
Need some guru advise as to what liquid ferts I could use with shrimp(CRS), as I'm using a JBL nano ferrapol 24. All mosses, anubia's and Postemon species are fine but the Staurogyn P. has gone through it's melt and lost most of it's leaves.

I thought it would recover but it looks like it's had it's day and gone all Gillian McKeith on me...!! Obviously my tank and current fert isn't providing the required / additional minerals..?

I know other planted enthusiasts use Profito, Easy life, TPN / TPN+ etc but can anyone recommend ferts that are safe with shrimp invertabrates...?

Any help much appreciated....

I'll have a look on the forum search as well...Thx for reading..
 
To my knowledge all ferts are invert safe as they contain very little copper which is toxic to inverts. I've bred and raised CRS in 10L of water doing TPN+.

Your Staurogyne problem may not be fert related. I'd suggests it's a CO2 issue in as much as the CO2 is not being distributed to that area, which is presumably at substrate level? This then indicates a flow issue. Could this be the case?
 
All ferts are safe but I'd consider avoiding Easy Carbo/Excel, could harm your shrimplets.
Regarding staurgyne, it does need good flow to develop but it's not too demanding to survive.
I don't know why it melts, some folks told me the same about pogstemon although I haven't had issue with them in any tank of mine, low tech or high tech, might be the flow at substrate level or not enough trace.

I'd consider dosing weekly trace (any) in combination with ferropol 24 and also a bit of NPK.

Cheers,
Mike
 
Dan Crawford said:
To my knowledge all ferts are invert safe as they contain very little copper which is toxic to inverts. I've bred and raised CRS in 10L of water doing TPN+.

Have now procured some TPN+ and will probably dose 0.4 ml each day .

Your Staurogyne problem may not be fert related. I'd suggests it's a CO2 issue in as much as the CO2 is not being distributed to that area, which is presumably at substrate level? This then indicates a flow issue. Could this be the case?

As this is a low tech setup there is no C02 infusion at present although have good flow from the custom spray bar/ power head - sponge filter, as mosses at substrate level show flow movement...Some shrimp forums state to keep the flow in the tank to a minimum with just a bubble/sponge filter setup, whereas my readings on their biotopes show natural river fed environments where water levels must rise and fall with natural preciptation levels.

Just procured a small C02 setup and attempt to regulate this to 2/3 BBM and see if this balance is ok for both plant and shrimp invertebrates. :thumbup:

Will update you on the Staurogyne P... Thx for your input....!!
 
OK.....update is that I have moved the 30cm cube back downstairs after the re-decorating job in the front rm.

After the disaster that was the Crown Indulgence Crochet paint not looking like anything it did in the brochure the room was quickly (2 days) painted over in a Farrow & ball I've balls up range in Praline. The wife now a contented bunny decided the tank could now go in the study whilst the family (tribe ) could celebrate xmas and said Spruce xmas tree was positioned accordingly. No room for nano tank so it's the study placement for now.

Nano was broken down and moved and decided to trim the bogwood and replace the slate for grey paddle stones as I found the slate not natural enough for an attempted river scene. Changed the sponge filter / power head setup for a clip on Dennerle external filter as I wanted more filter medium choices.

The procured C02 was a little Japanese number from AJ in Gloucester so it's a puncture cycliner type with a sensitive needle valve scenario. Couldn't get the provided bubble counter to work so am now ruuning this little setup with a DAZ nano diffuser and monitoring C02 BPM through this.

Filter outlet flow looks good but can see my diffuser bubbles dispersing around the tank and wondered if this was normal..?

As for the plants, the Starogyne P, Posgotmen Erectus and Helferi have been replanted and all look good at present.

Will take some snaps when I can confirm C02 infusion question as if I've set it up in-correctly I'll be making another change.

Only invertebrates are some small Tylo snails. The CRS shrimp are holed in my quarintine tank whilst this goes through another cycle.

Thx for reading..
 
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