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Hufsa

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but it is a potential explosive so may be covered by legislation in some Countries.
Im on all the fun lists! 😄

Getting KNO3 is completely out of question in Germany.
Ah I didnt know they were stricter in Germany than in Norway with this :wideyed: We have two lists of chemicals, the first one is the no-no-no list and the second one is "We'll be watching you closely" list. Is there not a system like that in Germany? For me KNO3 was on the second list so I took the chance and havent gotten any scary phonecalls yet. I figure if they do call on me I will invite them round to view my tank and discuss why ammonia dosing isnt straight forward in aquariums with fish.
 

Wookii

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This would suggest that it may be derived from mixing Magnesium Sulphate and Calcium Nitrate, the Sulphate content will be the amount of Calcium Sulphate that remains in the solution when it is separated from the Calcium Sulphate precipitate. The ionic solution of Magnesium, Nitrate, Calcium and Sulphate that remains could go through a further process to selectively exchange the Calcium ion (for Magnesium?) leaving only Magnesium, Nitrate and the Sulphate.

The amount of Sulphate will be low in this compound, if there’s a content analysis available it might be helpful to post the Sulphate percentage.

If using this compound and targeting for Nitrate then the Sulphate content will be low to negligible, if targeting for Magnesium content then the Sulphate content will be even lower.

:)

This is the only stuff I could find in a smaller quantity, and is described as “Magnesium Sulphate with Nitrogen”:


The only other stuff I could see is this, but I don’t really want 25kg:

 

Hufsa

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This is the only stuff I could find in a smaller quantity..
...
The only other stuff I could see is this, but I don’t really want 25kg..
Im not quite sure if this is a helpful link because im not quite following the thread, but have you looked at Loudwolf (Magnesium Nitrate) ?
I considered ordering from them once on one of my journeys down a rabbithole.
I didnt end up ordering that time so I cant vouch for the site but they seem to sell a lot of useful stuff in convenient quantities.

(For anyone from the Norwegian Police Security Service reading this, when I say useful I mean for making really nerdy custom fertilizer recipes and strictly that)
 

arcturus

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Im on all the fun lists! 😄


Ah I didnt know they were stricter in Germany than in Norway with this :wideyed: We have two lists of chemicals, the first one is the no-no-no list and the second one is "We'll be watching you closely" list. Is there not a system like that in Germany? For me KNO3 was on the second list so I took the chance and havent gotten any scary phonecalls yet. I figure if they do call on me I will invite them round to view my tank and discuss why ammonia dosing isnt straight forward in aquariums with fish.
"Technical grade" (or above) KNO3 is on on the no-no-no list and cannot be sold to private customers and only registered companies can buy it. The versions that are available are mostly agriculture use are mixed with a significant amount of other substances (and you need to buy bags of 25Kg or so). You can also try to buy KNO3 as food preservative (E252) but this is not straightforward as a private customer and you will always end up in the "we'll be watching you closely" list. I also got into that list because of my 1Kg of CaNO3 ;) But CaNO3 and MgNO3 are sold with less restrictions :rolleyes: The store where I bought the CaNO3 also sells MgNO3 but they only had the expensive high purity version. Otherwise, CaNO3 and MgNO3 can be bought after your ID is verified.
 
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Wookii

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(For anyone from the Norwegian Police Security Service reading this, when I say useful I mean for making really nerdy custom fertilizer recipes and strictly that)

5 minutes later at @Hufsa’s house:

1644341917891.gif
 

Wookii

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"Technical grade" (or above) KNO3 is on on the no-no-no list and cannot be sold to private customers and only registered companies can buy it. The versions that are available are mostly agriculture use are mixed with a significant amount of other substances (and you need to buy bags of 25Kg or so). You can also try to buy KNO3 as food preservative (E252) but this is not straightforward as a private customer and you will always end up in the "we'll be watching you closely" list. I also got into that list because of my 1Kg of CaNO3 ;) But CaNO3 and MgNO3 are sold with less restrictions :rolleyes: The store where I bought the CaNO3 also sells MgNO3 but they only had the expensive high purity version. Otherwise, CaNO3 and MgNO3 can be bought after your ID is verified.

It’s a strange one as KNO3 is easily obtainable in the UK:

 

MichaelJ

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Did @mrtank50 get his problem solved by the way? Or did we do a UKAPS (TM) and derail into highly theoretical stuff 🤔
That is a good question @Hufsa. @mrtank50 did bring up a pretty advanced topic (DIY GH booster) that calls for some unavoidable practical and theoretical considerations, so in this case I think we are all somewhat excused for nerding out a bit.

But @mrtank50 should let us know :)

Cheers,
Michael
 

hypnogogia

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"Technical grade" (or above) KNO3 is on on the no-no-no list and cannot be sold to private customers and only registered companies can buy it. The versions that are available are mostly agriculture use are mixed with a significant amount of other substances (and you need to buy bags of 25Kg or so). You can also try to buy KNO3 as food preservative (E252) but this is not straightforward as a private customer and you will always end up in the "we'll be watching you closely" list. I also got into that list because of my 1Kg of CaNO3 ;) But CaNO3 and MgNO3 are sold with less restrictions :rolleyes: The store where I bought the CaNO3 also sells MgNO3 but they only had the expensive high purity version. Otherwise, CaNO3 and MgNO3 can be bought after your ID is verified.
What would happen if some were to be posted to you from outside of the EU, i.e. the UK?
 

arcturus

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What would happen if some were to be posted to you from outside of the EU, i.e. the UK?
Assuming that we can actually send the product by post, then the parcel would be confiscated at customs, and I would likely end up in some trouble. These products are restricted according to <European Dual-Use Regulation>. Dual use products can be used for both civilian and military applications. The way this directive is transcribed into law varies from country to country and, in Germany, the actual regulations are wider than the EU directive. In the UK, I believe the <EPP - explosives precursors and poisons> guidelines apply (and nitrates are explicitly in those guidelines). Here, you need need to provide an end-user declaration ("EVE") regarding chemicals and dangerous substances to the supplier when buying such product. The supplier will then check with a government agency if you are actually authorized to use the product. This means that only authorized entities can actually use these products. So, every transaction involving these products is checked and reported. If you are ordering such products from another EU country, then the same directive applies and the company will ask you for your ID and for an official authorization. If the parcel is sent from post-Brexit UK then the process would now involve customs as well, because each and every parcel sent by post must be declared, and it would be declared as a regulated/dangerous chemical... so it would be certainly checked by customs, who could then check with the government agency if the receiver is authorized to use the product. We actually received two parcels (small boxes, less than 1Kg) from the UK last week: one was a Christmas gift from a friend posted mid-December; the other were some craft items we ordered in early Jan. Both were stuck at customs for +1 month and both boxes were inspected by customs...
 

Wookii

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In the UK, I believe the <EPP - explosives precursors and poisons> guidelines apply (and nitrates are explicitly in those guidelines). Here, you need need to provide an end-user declaration ("EVE") regarding chemicals and dangerous substances to the supplier when buying such product. The supplier will then check with a government agency if you are actually authorized to use the product. This means that only authorized entities can actually use these products. So, every transaction involving these products is checked and reported.

Potassium Nitrate is listed, but it is listed as a ‘Reportable Substance’, not a ‘Regulated Substance’. It therefore does not require any kind of authorisation or EPP licence to purchase. The seller is under a duty of disclosure to report any ‘suspicious’ purchases of the ‘Reportable Substances’ but not general sales.

It seems there isn’t a clear definition of what is ‘suspicious’, but I would assume that buying a 5kg tub or two of lab grade KNO3 would not be considered suspicious, where as buying 20 x 25Kg of agricultural grade would raise more questions.
 

hypnogogia

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@arcturus my word! Just goes to show, though, how much sovereignty countries have in how EU directives are implemented. Even as part of the EU it was relatively easy to get hold of KNO3.
 

arcturus

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Potassium Nitrate is listed, but it is listed as a ‘Reportable Substance’, not a ‘Regulated Substance’. It therefore does not require any kind of authorisation or EPP licence to purchase. The seller is under a duty of disclosure to report any ‘suspicious’ purchases of the ‘Reportable Substances’ but not general sales.

It seems there isn’t a clear definition of what is ‘suspicious’, but I would assume that buying a 5kg tub or two of lab grade KNO3 would not be considered suspicious, where as buying 20 x 25Kg of agricultural grade would raise more questions.
Exactly. The <EU directive 2019/1148> places ammonium nitrate in the restricted list and K, Na, Ca, Mg nitrates in the reportable list. But in Germany the chemicals ordinance also applies (ChemVerbotsV), which mandates the sellers to report transactions involving these products. If you go to a pharmacy you might try buying a small quantity of a reportable product without providing the end-user declaration, but you always need to provide your ID. A classic example of this is buying hydrogen peroxide: it is available at concentrations below 12%; between 12-35% is reportable and you need to convince the pharmacist to sell it to you without the end-user declaration and you would need to provide your ID; above 35% the end-user declaration is mandatory. You can try going the same route with KNO3 with the argument that you want to preserve meat ;)
 
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