Advice needed, just brought a new tank :)

Discussion in 'General Planted Tank Discussions' started by LondonDragon, 27 May 2008.

  1. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Hi Guys,

    Just went out and brought a new tank, a Juwel Rekord 60, 61 x 31 x 36 cm, 54 liters.

    The idea for this tank is for my red cheries and other shrimp that I intend to keep. Like CRS and red nose and maybe tiger. Can I mix them all together safely?

    Also it comes with 15W light which for plants is not ideal, what could I keep with this? without upgrading? I have an extra starter for an 18w T8 which I could use in the tank. Guess CO2 wouldn't be needed with this low light, could always dose EasyCarbo, will mosses grow well? and crypts? what would you guys recommend for shrimp only tank?

    I guess the internal filter would be enough, I have a couple of aqua ball filters also from previous setups that I could use if necessary.

    For low planted tank, substrate is not really necessary, might just get a fine black gravel for the tank.

    Any help and suggestions much appreciated.

    Thanks :)
     
  2. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    Leamington Spa, UK.
    I'm not 100% sure, but won't red cherries and CRS cross breed? I think I'm right in saying CRS are just selectively bred red cherries?
     
  3. Wayney

    Wayney Member

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    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    Red nose shrimps should be ok with tigers and cherries according to AE.
     
  4. Egmel

    Egmel Member

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    Well this is what I had before I upgraded and I was growing spiral vallis, cryptocorynes and amazon swords without too much trouble, no CO2 and no ferts either. Though it was very lightly planted.
     
  5. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Paulo, depending on the content of your water supply, low light non-CO2 tanks ought to have careful attention given to substrate. That's where much of the feeding will take place in this regime. You could do treated Akadama (see the JamesC sticky) or you could use baked potting soil under sand or gravel. Oddly this is a great application for Aquasoil as the nutrient drain will be less so it's store would last longer. The 15w plus the 18w T8s would be fine I think.

    Cheers,
     
  6. Ed Seeley

    Ed Seeley Member

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    Cherries won't cross with Crystal Reds, but Crystal reds will cross with Bee and Tiger shrimp. Crystal Red shrimp are selectively bred Bee shrimp, Red cherries are selectively bred wild Neocaridina shrimp.
     
  7. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    4,428
    Location:
    Leamington Spa, UK.
    I run 15w with a reflector over a 54 litre growing weeping moss, flame moss and varius crypts and ferns. Oh, and anubias, though this is slow going.

    I was dosing very hap-hazard EI, but now dosing 2ml TPN+ and 2ml of Excel on weekdays. Growth was pretty good under my hap-hazard regime, but I have a bit of a daitoms issue. Now I'm getting more into the flow I hope this'll go.

    Thanks for that Ed, good to know :)
     
  8. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks for all the feedback guys :) much appreciated.

    Could I then use Tropica Plant Substrate with fine gravel on top? or Aquasoil would be a better option if so which? Don't know much about ADA stuff, have never used any substrate before.

    Clive how thick would the baked potting soil would need to be? Could I dose EI on this tank without CO2 and using EasyCarbo instead?

    Steve could you let me know the quatities you were dosing, just to get an idea? thanks

    Thanks for all the info on the cross breeding of the shrimp, I will have to consider my selection carefully then.

    Many thanks :)
     
  9. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    4,428
    Location:
    Leamington Spa, UK.
    I was dosing (if memory serves) dry ferts at about:

    1/2 tsp of NO3
    1/4 to 1/2 PO4
    1/4 to 1/2 trace

    Dosing every few days. By no means a good regime though.

    Oh, I have inert sand/gravel as substrate too btw :)
     
  10. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Well since they are about the same price I would get the Aquasoil and use it exclusively. Check AE or TGM for prices There are three color variations. In a low tech environment the metabolic rate is slow enough that substrate feeding is substantial. That means that the time required for root uptake is low enough because the rate of photosynthesis is not nearly as manic as it is under high lighting. You can start the tank off with water changes and excel dosing and then gradually taper both off to zero over a few months, or you can continue both as you wish.

    Excel is really expensive but it is do-able every day or every other day. The dosing schedule doesn't have to be so extreme because of the low light. With a nutritious substrate you would only have to dose nutrients once or twice a week.

    If you used potting soil similar depth would work, maybe 2-3 inches topped by an inch of sand or whatever, just to keep from making a mess. Personally I would opt for the AS as it's infinitely easier although infinitely more expensive as well, but this is only a 15 gallon so it won't break the bank.

    Cheers,
     
  11. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks Steve and Clive,

    Think I will go down the aquasoil route then, worth a try now in preparation for my large tank which hopefully will get built soon enough.

    Just been having a look at the AE website and I like the colour of the ADA Aqua Soil Amazonia, they have two types the old type and the new version II, does it matter which? Seems like a 9L bag will be enough.

    Also they have others like Powder, Sand Special/M/S etc... what are these?

    Thanks for the help and apologies for the million questions.
     
  12. Wayney

    Wayney Member

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    215
    Location:
    Wolverhampton
    The amazonia II is aimed at tanks with harder water, apparently origional amazonia soil is prone to go cloudy in alkaline water hence the new one.
    As far as I'm aware the power sands help create a bigger bacteria and nutrient store in the substrate when used with AS.
    Someone please correct me if I'm wrong :)
     
  13. james3200

    james3200 Member

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    296
    Location:
    CROYDON
    Hi London Dragon

    I have 2 unopened 9l bags of ADA Amazonia, if your interested, PM me
     
  14. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

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    Paulo,
    Forget all that powersand propaganda. Run, do not walk to take up James' Amazonia offer.

    Cheers,
     
  15. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    PM sent ;)
     
  16. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    Location:
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    Got the tank today, didn't get it with the stand as the Juwel stank is not that good, no storage.
    Looking into getting the Fluval Uno 600 stand which is the same dimensions or something that is 60x30cm, its on a 60x30 table at the moment but its too low.

    I had a look at the filter and I will get it going with one of my Rio 125 filter sponges and one of the Rekord sponges to help if cycle faster, will also place the other sponge inside the Rio internal filter to get that with bacteria, that should help right?

    I might dose this tank with TPN+ and EasyCarbo since I won't need very high dosing, or with TPN+ I don't need EasyCarbo?
     
  17. JamesM

    JamesM Member

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    Are you still going ahead with your large corner tank?
     
  18. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

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    This is just to try and breed some shrimp, will look nice a shrimp only tank. The large corner tank is hopefully going ahead still, I have agree to the quote I received, just waiting for them to finalise things and give me a start date. They taking ages to reply to me, been two weeks without any news on it, sent them a couple of emails this week, fingers crossed they haven't changed their minds about it.
     
  19. JamesM

    JamesM Member

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    Shrimp only tanks are fun :D

    Not so fun when trying to prune and avoid cutting up a ton of shrimplets though :lol:
     
  20. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
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    Location:
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    Paulo,
    Here's another perspective. You're well advised to take a deep breath and for the moment completely forget about what shrimp or which fish or whatever. :rolleyes: This is a completely different regime than your EI tank, which is akin to a thoroughbred racehorse. This tank will be more like a Clydesdale plough horse, so you have to think about how it works.

    In your EI tank the metabolic processes are rapid. Organic waste production rates outstrip the ability of the tanks inhabitants to recycle waste. This excess waste in the presence of high light encourages algae so you need high flow, high filtration and high water changes. Low light tanks operate more like a sewage treatment plant where the slower waste production is balanced by the recycle rate.

    The main engine of this recycling plant is the interaction between sediment bacteria and plant roots. This is why the Amazonia is so important. It is high in nutrients, is made of clay (which is electrochemically root friendly) and has granular size which facilitates flow within the sediment. So from a plants' perspective it's the substrate that needs to be cycled.

    The TPN+ that you'll add to the water column helps keep things ticking over and supplements the root feeding. If you add carbon you will boost the metabolic rate and increase the organic waste beyond the equilibrium point so you will have to do water changes. If you don't add carbon then you don't have to do water changes so this is an important decision. You can start off using liquid carbon + water changes to help the plants transition and then taper off both after a month or two adding progressively less liquid. Once the plants and sediment bacteria have adapted to this environment you then have the conditions in which to introduce fauna.

    In my opinion, trying to hurry up cycling so you can get the shrimp in is a little bit of "cart before the horse". Low tech tanks are not immune to algae so patience is advised here.

    Cheers,
     

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