Advice on inverts in 34L tank

[Alpaca]

Hi all,

I'm new here and new to the hobby; thanks for all of the useful advice and tutorials etc. I wanted some advice about adding extra inverts to a small planted tank.

It's a 45cm, 34L tank, which I started about a month ago. I suppose it is high tech though I don't have much CO2 going in because I am nervous of gassing the livestock.
I added some clean up crew: 5 Amano Shrimp and some horned nerve snails who seem happy, and a week ago 6 otos, 2 of whom died after a couple of days, to my distress, but the others seem happy now and are eating and pooping like mad. I want to add some more inverts to make the ecosystem a bit richer, and I ordered a mixed pack off eBay of various snails (dwarf Ramshorn and some other types), arsellus aquaticus, and some gammarus pulex, but I have read some things about the last of these being overly aggressive and attacking nerites. So is this a bad idea? will adding this crowd (6 mixed snails, 4 water louse and 10 XL gammarus pulled) be damaging? What would some alternatives be?

 

[seedoubleyou]

I think the only bad idea you’ve had was adding 6 otos to a tank that size and only after a month.
As for inverts fill your boots mate you’ll be fine.
Regarding the amphipods you’re adding. I have zero experience or knowledge of them so can’t help there, give it a go and see what happens, that’s how we all learn and one experience differs from the next.

 

[Alpaca]

Thanks; I kind of realise that now about the otos . Is that size of tank just too small for otos tout court or is it too soon/soo many? I understand that they aren't happy on their own.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
Tank looks good.

So is this a bad idea? will adding this crowd (6 mixed snails, 4 water louse and 10 XL gammarus pulled) be damaging? What would some alternatives be?

If you haven't already purchased these? I can send you an "easy care" <"invertebrate starter pack">.

arsellus aquaticus,

<"Asellus are good"> (if a little ugly). I have them in all my tanks and they persist even with <"crustacean eating fish"> like Dwarf Cichlids.

and some gammarus pulex,

They are <"unlikely to be Gammarus pulex">, purely because these have a high oxygen demand and don't tend to persist in tropical tanks, even really well oxygenated ones. The two more likely options (that look very similar) are Hyallela azteca (more likely) or <"Crangonyx pseudogracilis"> (less likely).

but I have read some things about the last of these being overly aggressive and attacking nerites

I'd be really worried that they were actually <"Dikerogammarus the "Killer shrimp">. Asellus and Crangonyx are definitely fine with plants, shrimps, snails etc and I've <"never kept Hyallela">, but I believe it is more catholic in its food tastes.

seem happy now and are eating and pooping like mad...........I kind of realise that now about the otos . Is that size of tank just too small for otos tout court or is it too soon/soo many?

A bit of both really, the remaining four sound healthy and should be all right if <"you feed them veg. etc"> and really keep on top of water quality, noe the tank is a <"bit more established">. I'd add some <"structural leaf litter"> for them as well.

I added some clean up crew: 5 Amano Shrimp and some horned nerve snails who seem happy

It might depend on how hard your water is, "London Tap" would be fine for them. I've not kept either (my water is too soft), but I would worry about the Amano shrimps in a tank that size, they can grow very large and become quite aggressive.

cheers Darrel

 

[seedoubleyou]

Thanks; I kind of realise that now about the otos . Is that size of tank just too small for otos tout court or is it too soon/soo many? I understand that they aren't happy on their own.

Think Darell has wrapped this all up for you nicely mate with lots to read if you so wish.

As already said. The remaining should be fine. I never advocate for keeping any fish in a tank that small. That’s not because it can’t be done with success. It’s just easier to discourage people so it happens less.

 

[Alpaca]

Hi all,
Tank looks good.

If you haven't already purchased these? I can send you an "easy care" <"invertebrate starter pack">.

Thank you for the offer! The box I ordered just arrived and I am not quite sure what species the scuds are, I will study them carefully before I introduce them into the tank.

<"Asellus are good"> (if a little ugly). I have them in all my tanks and they persist even with <"crustacean eating fish"> like Dwarf Cichlids.

They are <"unlikely to be Gammarus pulex">, purely because these have a high oxygen demand and don't tend to persist in tropical tanks, even really well oxygenated ones. The two more likely options (that look very similar) are Hyallela azteca (more likely) or <"Crangonyx pseudogracilis"> (less likely).

I'd be really worried that they were actually <"Dikerogammarus the "Killer shrimp">. Asellus and Crangonyx are definitely fine with plants, shrimps, snails etc and I've <"never kept Hyallela">, but I believe it is more catholic in its food tastes.

A bit of both really, the remaining four sound healthy and should be all right if <"you feed them veg. etc"> and really keep on top of water quality, noe the tank is a <"bit more established">. I'd add some <"structural leaf litter"> for them as well.

Motivated by some of your discussion I read here previously on leaf litter I picked up a bag of oak leaves and acorn cups on my last walk in the park, since it's the right time of year for collecting leaves and added one of each. They seem to like it.
Slightly drifting off topic, but when should I start feeding the fish vegetables? They are still happily eating algae and there seems a reasonable amount left in the tank. I put a bit of cucumber in which the Amanos nibbled at and the otos ignored.

It might depend on how hard your water is, "London Tap" would be fine for them. I've not kept either (my water is too soft), but I would worry about the Amano shrimps in a tank that size, they can grow very large and become quite aggressive.

Yes, London tap water and I am not doing any RO or other water treatment apart from dechlorinizing. I bought them from Wholesale Tropicals and the guy there said if they got too big I could bring them back and swap them for smaller so that is an option for the future.

cheers Darrel

Thanks Darrel! Super helpful.

 

[Myrtle]

Sorry to hijack but I'd be interested in your critters @dw1305 !

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,

Slightly drifting off topic, but when should I start feeding the fish vegetables? They are still happily eating algae and there seems a reasonable amount left in the tank.

The problem with Otocinclus is that they eat quite a limited range of algae, and are really diatom specialists. Because of this it is important to get them eating other food sources, unless you have a huge tank. Behaviour is a good clue to how well fed they are, if they spend all day swimming around? They are starving.

I put a bit of cucumber in which the Amanos nibbled at and the otos ignored.

That would be one of my worries with the Amanos, that they will monopolise the food supply and aren't really compatible with the Otocinclus in the longer term. The cucumber would need to soften and start to go slightly slimy before the Otocinclus are interested in it.

I'd be interested in your critters @dw1305 !

PM me.

cheers Darrel

 

[MichaelJ]

Because of this it is important to get them eating other food sources,

My Oto's are always joining in on the algae wafers that I feed my cherry shrimps, so that seems to be a good supplement for Oto's.

Cheers,
Michael

 

[Alpaca]

So I am fairly sure that the scuds that arrived are Gammarus P. based on Dobson (2012)
since they are quite big and don't have conical projections on the urosome (I only just learned what that was). So that means they won't be appropriate for that warm, deepish tank for various reasons, but they seem at home in my small cold shallow pond., adjacent.

 

[dw1305]

Hi all,
They look like Gammarus pulex, rather than Hyallela azteca, because they look to have a smooth profile at the rear of the body, H. azteca (below) has two "points"

By Scott Bauer - This image is uploaded as image number 3579 at Tree of Life Web Project (tolweb.org).This tag does not indicate the copyright status of the attached work. A normal copyright tag is still required. See Commons:Licensing for more information., Public Domain, File:Hyalella azteca 2.jpg - Wikimedia Commons

cheers Darrel