AE Trace and Potassium Phosphate on different days?

Discussion in 'Aquarium Fert Dosing' started by Schmill, 26 Feb 2009.

  1. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Messages:
    30
    Hi,

    I have my own liquids mixed from dry ferts in 3 bottles of AE Traces, AE Potassium Nitrate, and AE Potassium Phosphate.
    I vaguely remember reading that the traces and the Phosphate (?) should be dosed on different days to avoid some kind of reaction between the Iron and the phosphate, but I can't remember the details.
    Also I see on here that some people are making up All-In-One mixes, so how does this work without causing the reaction that the above seemed to be trying to avoid?
    At the moment, so that I don't have to remember which day is what I have been dosing all the solutions 7 days a week, but I'm now wondering if this is what causes a slight white-cloudiness to my water that I can't seem to shift.

    1) Is it the dosing of everything together that causes the slight milkyness?
    2) Which ones do I need to avoid dosing together?

    Thanks!
     
  2. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,298
    Location:
    London
    Most likely.
    You dose trace on say Monday, Wed, Fri
    and the others After water change on Sunday, Tues, Thurs

    You can mix them all together, but you will need a couple of other chemicals to avoid them reacting to each other.

    Have a look here:

    http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/allinone.htm

    and here: viewtopic.php?f=11&t=4596
     
  3. GreenNeedle

    GreenNeedle Member

    Messages:
    2,706
    Location:
    Lincoln UK
    I don't get milkiness and dose both daily. I don't do an all in one however I mix the KNO3 and KH2PO4 together (in a different ratio so that I dose the same as if they were seperate) and the trace is in a seperate bottle.

    By the time you get to the traces the KNO3/KH2PO4 mix is diluted and spread around the tank.

    People will warble on about this reaction. To them I would ask how come the iron doesn't get rendered useless when it comes into contact with the tank water. After all the tap water used contains phosphate!!!

    AC
     
  4. JamesC

    JamesC Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Location:
    Bexley, Kent
    Yes, free iron and phosphate react together to form an insoluble precipitate which gives your tank a white haze. This isn't to say that it is 100% the cause of your haze. Best thing to do is to try a different trace solution that uses a different chelator and see if that clears up the haze. The chelator is the part that keeps the iron bonded and prevents it reacting with anything. Plants are able to utilise the chelated iron so this is a very good way of supplying iron to plants.

    AE traces use Fe-EDTA which works best in soft water and with a low pH. Some people find that when they use Fe-EDTA in hard water they get problems with hazy water. As a test you could try using Tropica's TPN which uses Fe-HEEDTA and is much more suited to hard water tanks, that is of course if your water is hard. Many people find that once they switch to TPN the haziness disappears. If you wish to carry on DIY traces then you can use Haack's traces that use Fe-HEEDTA, which I've been using with great success. A link to their website is on my webpage - http://www.theplantedtank.co.uk/traces.htm.

    Dosing on alternate days probably doesn't do a great deal as you will always have phosphate in the tank when the iron chelate is added. The main reason for adding on alternate days was to try and simplyfy the dosing.

    James
     
  5. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Messages:
    30
    All interesting replies, thanks :)

    I too keep mine seperate, not as an all-in-one mix, but have been dosing all daily as it saves the grey-matter from having to work out which day is which :lol:

    I previously made up my ferts using tap water, (hard water), and it made enough up for 20 days daily-dosing at a time. I have since read (and now mentioned above as well) that the chelting agent used in AE's Trace mix can be broken down by hard water.

    Obviously I'm not going to do anything to the water in the tank, so that will still be based on tap water, but I have bought some 'Battery Top-Up Water' (Deionised water from Halfords), and will make my ferts up using that this time. My thinking being that when the solution is in the bottle it is at a much higher concentration than in the tank, and perhaps spending 20 days in hard-tapwater (with phosphates) isn't good for the Traces.
    I'll make up my ferts as usual again (in seperate bottles), but use the DI water and dose daily, and see what happens. If it still goes milky then I will have to try a different Trace mix and perhaps ebay the AE stuff, but if this works, then I don't mind occasionally buying a bottle of DI water :)

    EDIT I think it was probably on your site James where I read about the different chelting agents reacting to different water types originally :)
     
  6. JamesC

    JamesC Member

    Messages:
    1,276
    Location:
    Bexley, Kent
    Looks like a good plan to me

    James
     
  7. altaaffe

    altaaffe Member

    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Thornhill, Egremont, Cumbria
    I dose mine separate days but have the amount and the days to dose written on the bottle so that if deployed short notice my better half knows what & when. :lol:
     
  8. a1Matt

    a1Matt Member

    Messages:
    2,498
    Location:
    Bromley
    I have no memory at all but a simple system that works for me to get the separate days correct... I leave a teaspoon on top of the pot of the last fert I dosed. So the next day I dose I look at the teaspoon and know to dose from the other pot!

    simple is best for me :)
     
  9. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,298
    Location:
    London
    Haha thats why I automated mine ;) I kept forgetting what I dosed and when and what etc.... lol Now I don't worry about it, just have to remember to check the bottle every month to refill.
     
  10. a1Matt

    a1Matt Member

    Messages:
    2,498
    Location:
    Bromley
    you know what LD, I am very tempted to follow you. Although I wouldn't remember to change the bottle :rolleyes: - I would have to set an email\mobile phone alert to tell me! I have already ditched the CO2 to slow things down and make life easier. Only been a month now and so far so good.
     
  11. LondonDragon

    LondonDragon Administrator Staff Member

    Messages:
    10,298
    Location:
    London
    Go for it mate you won't regret it ;) then get yourself one of these:

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Aquarium-Tank-Hig ... 240%3A1318

    When the solution runs out the alarm will tell you to refill it LOL
     
  12. a1Matt

    a1Matt Member

    Messages:
    2,498
    Location:
    Bromley
    lol. brilliant, there really is a gadget for every occassion!

    I will spend some time (I expect it to take me 2 or 3 months :wideyed: ) working out my optimum dosing levels\strategy with my new low tech approach. (no Co2 = no water changes = more critical to put the right amount of ferts in). When
    I have that sussed I will switch to a liquid solution, then when that is good I will go over to auto dosing.

    Slow but sure wins the race, and the experimenting is all part of the fun of the hobby ;)
     

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