Amazon Swords leaves seem thin / transparent

Discussion in 'Plant Help' started by Schmill, 5 Nov 2009.

  1. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Messages:
    30
    I've noticed recently that the leaves on my largest Amazon Sword seem to be going transparent. They are a very pale green, (but that could be due to the tranparency)
    If I place my finger behind a leaf, although you cannot 'see' my finger through the leaf, you can certainly tell that there is something finger shaped behind the leaf - lol (I hope that makes sense!)

    Any ideas on what would be causing the leaves to go thin?
    I use liquid carbon, and dose Trace, KN03 and KH2PO4.

    Cheers :)
     
  2. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Translucency in tissues is typically a result of poor CO2. You haven't stated how much lighting you have or the size of the tank, however, if the lighting is too high then the liquid carbon products cannot supply enough CO2 using the recommended dosages. You'll therefore need to increase the dosage or lower the lighting or both.

    Cheers,
     
  3. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Messages:
    30
    Sorry, I wasn't sure what information would be relevant here :)

    Ok so;

    - The tank is an Aqua One Regency 120. It is a 300L 4ft tank, but is 24" deep, (I liked the additional depth compared to other 4ft tanks).
    - Built in the hood are 2 x 39W T5 lamps with reflectors.
    - I am currently double dosing the AE Liquid Carbon.
    From the AE website;
    So in 300L it would be 30ml on Waterchange, and 6ml daily (or every other day)
    I currently use 30ml on a waterchange, (as I did not want to risk doubling up this already 'higher' dose), and then I dose between 12-15ml DAILY (depends where the measure fills up to, as it's only marked at 5ml increments).

    I don't 'really' want to reduce the brightness of the tank, as it 'suits' the lighting level at the moment, and that (the lighting level), does seem to be quite a bit lower than some other people are using (with CO2 injection) anyway?

    I did look at going to CO2 injection a while back, but I don't really have anywhere to store the cannister, and with the tank in the living room, often inhabited by 2 mischivious young boys :rolleyes: I didn't fancy having the cannister out and 'exposed'.
     
  4. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi,
    Thanks for the additional data. Yes, this is a large tank to be dosing liquid carbon only. The instructions are basic guidelines and cannot cover all possible scenarios. In fact, I use that dosing scheme as a supplement to gas injection. It seems your only choice is to double the daily dosing. Additional flow and careful attention to distribution might also help. We normally suggest the 10X tank volume per hour flow rating for Carbon enriched tanks. It's not clear what filtration/pumping you have though.

    Cheers,
     
  5. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Messages:
    30
    It would seem I have a circulation problem then as well :(

    I am just running the external filter that came with the tank, which is an Aqua One CF1200. Rated at 1200 LPH, but I understand that this is likely to be doing around 800LPH allowing for head etc. So I am only hitting 2x, or 2.5x turnover per hour...

    I honestly don't know how I could fit enough filtration in inorder to get 10x turn over... :?:
     
  6. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi,
    The 10X rule already takes into account the actual flow. That's why we're always careful to state "flow rating" as opposed to flow. A 1200 LPH flow rating means that you're almost halfway there. if you can afford it you might think about adding and external filter having a rating of 1700 LPH or so, or you might consider supplementing the flow with a Koralia or similar.

    Cheers,
     
  7. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Messages:
    30
    I was considering a Koralia to be honest. Would this be ok, as it wouldn't be filtering the water, merely circulating it?
    Any recomendations on what size I should get?

    One issue I think I currently have with the tank is this, and please bear with me, as it may take some 'imagination'!

    Ok, the holes in the hood, and in the internal glass braces are in the top left rear corner of the tank when you look at it.
    My filter INLET is directly below this, in the bottom left rear corner of the tank.
    The spray bar enters the tank at the rear top left, and is then elbowed to run across the rear of the tank. I have the spray bar holes facing towards the front of the tank, as I have read elsewhere on this forum, to produce the 'across the top, down the front, across the bottom and up the back' flow.
    However when the water exits the spraybar it doesn't exit directly from back to front of the tank, but rather at a slight angle towards the right. I think this is becuase the water is flowing in that direction INSIDE the spray bar, and hence when it reaches the holes, although it sprays out, it still has tendancy to be going left to right.
    This is not too much of an issue, but it does mean that anything in the water is also 'flowed' from left to right, and the filter inlet is at the back left :rolleyes:
    I can't move the inlet, or the direction of the spray bar, as there is only the one place in the tank that the pipes can enter and exit. If I was to place a Koralia in the bottom right rear corner of the tank, either 'blowing' forwards, or across the back of the tank, do you think this would help?

    Thanks for all & any advice :)
     
  8. AndyOx

    AndyOx Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    South Oxfordshire
    Hiya, I don't think the flow going left to right with your filter inlet being back left will make too much difference really, probably slightly better for the water to take the longer route around more of your aquarium. From experience though, the flow from the koralia should serve to elimate "dead spots" and boost the flow direction rather than go against it or cut across it. The idea with lots of flow isn't so much flow itself but even distribution of CO2 and nutrients, so the aim is to get good circulation in all areas of the aquarium. Hope this helps :D

    Andy
     
  9. AndyOx

    AndyOx Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    South Oxfordshire
    sorry was probably just editing that as you were reading it!! I really should preview more often :oops:
     
  10. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Messages:
    30
    Thanks :)
    Just re-read it - lol
    Any recommendations on where the Koralia should be sited, and which direction it should 'blow' in then? I want to try and hide it really, but that would mean mounting it on the back wall as I think the Koralia have a part that mounts externally on the tank?
     
  11. AndyOx

    AndyOx Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    South Oxfordshire
    Hi Schmill, yes that's right they have a magnetic device, which also incorporates a sucker too. I guess it's largely down to your own personal preference. I think if it were me I'd be mindful of the left to right flow from your spray bar and want to avoid the front left corner being too static so I'd mount it near to the first few holes of the spray bar and direct the flow toward the front of the tank to add to the flow and also to ensure that the front left corner recieves water movement as well. Just a suggestion, I'm sure other people will have other/better suggestions. Above all I'd say just experiment and see what gives you the best circulation primarily. A koralie is quite easy to hide though, although they have a mightly flow on them it is quite gentle as well, I find it doesn't blast plants to bits unlike a powerhead of similar flow rating might. Hope this helps

    Andy :)

    p.s. previewed this time too!!! :lol:
     
  12. Schmill

    Schmill Member

    Messages:
    30
    Please excuse the blurring of the fish, my 'point-n-click' Olympus doesn't do well with moving objects in the dark!
    dbf6334e.jpg

    So here you can see the pipe in the rear left that goes down to the intank, and also where the spray bar enters the tank and elbows.

    Basically it is all the area to the left of the elbow that I think is pretty much 'dead water'.
    I could feasibly move the spray bar to the left a bit more, (closer to the inlet pipe), but then that will leave more water 'untouched' at the other end of the tank.
    I had considered buying another peice of spray bar, and attempting to lengthen the bar, (the tank is 4ft, the pipe maybe 3ft at a push), but then that worried me that I'd be lowering the velocity of the water leaving the bar, and I might just 'stall' the whole tank?

    The Amazon sword that is suffering is, I now realise in probably one of the worst places, at the front left corner of the tank.

    So Andy, from your suggestion, would you be looking to mount the Koralia up in the top left corner then, perhaps between the inlet pipe and the spray-bar elbow? Pointed towards the front of the tank, and perhaps just low enough to not suck in any air?
    Not sure how I would hide it then though, but I'm sure there will be plenty of suggestions - lol
     
  13. AndyOx

    AndyOx Member

    Messages:
    87
    Location:
    South Oxfordshire
    Yea that's where I'd put it. You mightn't need to put it so high up either. well here's my suggestion for concealment.........You could use a piece of well soaked wood and glue some bolbitis to it, this plant would enjoy the current without obstructing it and the wood and plant together would hide the koralia. Java fern would be a more fail-safe plant possibly.

    Andy
     
  14. ceg4048

    ceg4048 Expert/Global Moderator Staff Member

    Messages:
    8,953
    Location:
    Chicago, USA
    Hi,
    A lot of different configurations can work. You can, for example shift the spraybar over to one side and mount the Koralia at the space vacated by the spray bar. This would then give you the forward flow that will be additive and will be in the same direction as the spraybar flow. You could also mount the Koralia against the right front wall pointing to the left to carry flow across to the left. Just play with different mounting strategies and see what the flow is like.

    Cheers,
     

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