Amazonia, phosphates and more and more...

M.eremin

New Member
Joined
24 Feb 2019
Messages
11
Location
Moscow
Hello.
I very often use products from ADA in my aquariums (the entire line of soils and fertilizers), but still I can not fully understand how it still works. In my aquariums there is always a powerful filtration, a strong supply of carbon dioxide and strong lighting, clean osmosis, without remineralization, in aquariums where calcium stones are present, the water is much harder due to the powerful supply of carbon dioxide.
Usually, everything goes according to a similar pattern.
First, rapid growth occurs and I add 1ml / 20l Mineral + Potassium + Iron. Then, after a certain period of time, when the plant ceases to grow actively, I begin to dose Nitrogen.
After the plants have actively grown, plaque begins to appear on the walls of the aquarium. It forms in about 2 days. Those. fast enough.
Then, after the plants have actively grown, I cut them. I reduce the amount of fertilizer by 2 times approximately. After that, plants rarely begin to grow as fast, often appearing blue-green and filamentous algae.
There are always a few fish in my aquariums. For example, for 150l I can have only 15 Tetra Amanda, for example.
This example is taken from an aquarium:
45 * 45 * 90
2x150Wt MHqL ADA 8h / day
SuperJet 1200EX
CO2 5bps
Questions: what am I doing wrong? Why after a haircut does not manage to recreate the previous state of the aquarium?
It is believed that Amazonia soil and Power Sand substrate have powerful reserves of nitrate and phosphate, but then why do plants stop growing quickly enough?
Could it be that in my aquariums an overdose, for example, Micro (ADA has a very rich Mineral with various metals) or iron or Potassium (whose high concentration blocks nitrate consumption)?
Is Potassium Overdose Possible Due to Lack of Sodium in Water?
Phosphate is believed to be the cause of the growth of most algae, but why then in the old ADA fertilizer line were Shade and Light, which contained phosphates? In the new line of fertilizers, phosphates are not provided at all. How to determine if there is phosphate starvation? If so, how much phosphate to add? How to understand how much nitrate to pour? The minimum amount indicated in the instructions is 1ml / 20l, but can be increased two and three times. How to determine if phosphates should be added? If so, in what form and in what quantity? How to determine the ratio of nitrates and phosphates in an aquarium with Amazonia, if it absorbs these substances in itself and they are always not in water?
I conducted such an experiment: crushed Amazonia granules taken from an aquarium in water. The water settled, and after it became transparent, I measured the phosphate: the test showed 0. Does this mean that phosphates must be introduced? Why does the rapid growth of plants still produce plaque on the walls? Is it a lack of something or an overdose yet?
 

Witcher

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Joined
15 Jan 2020
Messages
292
Location
London
clean osmosis, without remineralization, in aquariums where calcium stones are present
Does it means you don't supply Magnesium at all? I'd look at the amount of Mg first.

Phosphate is believed to be the cause of the growth of most algae,
Only when there is a lack of other nutrients, in balanced environment P don't cause the algae.

Is it a lack of something or an overdose yet?
It can be also lack of one nutrient while overdose of the other one - I think that's the most common cause of algae blooms.
 

Wookii

Member
Joined
13 Nov 2019
Messages
970
Location
Nottingham
Hello.
I very often use products from ADA in my aquariums (the entire line of soils and fertilizers), but still I can not fully understand how it still works. In my aquariums there is always a powerful filtration, a strong supply of carbon dioxide and strong lighting, clean osmosis, without remineralization, in aquariums where calcium stones are present, the water is much harder due to the powerful supply of carbon dioxide.
Usually, everything goes according to a similar pattern.
First, rapid growth occurs and I add 1ml / 20l Mineral + Potassium + Iron. Then, after a certain period of time, when the plant ceases to grow actively, I begin to dose Nitrogen.
After the plants have actively grown, plaque begins to appear on the walls of the aquarium. It forms in about 2 days. Those. fast enough.
Then, after the plants have actively grown, I cut them. I reduce the amount of fertilizer by 2 times approximately. After that, plants rarely begin to grow as fast, often appearing blue-green and filamentous algae.
There are always a few fish in my aquariums. For example, for 150l I can have only 15 Tetra Amanda, for example.
This example is taken from an aquarium:
45 * 45 * 90
2x150Wt MHqL ADA 8h / day
SuperJet 1200EX
CO2 5bps
Questions: what am I doing wrong? Why after a haircut does not manage to recreate the previous state of the aquarium?
It is believed that Amazonia soil and Power Sand substrate have powerful reserves of nitrate and phosphate, but then why do plants stop growing quickly enough?
Could it be that in my aquariums an overdose, for example, Micro (ADA has a very rich Mineral with various metals) or iron or Potassium (whose high concentration blocks nitrate consumption)?
Is Potassium Overdose Possible Due to Lack of Sodium in Water?
Phosphate is believed to be the cause of the growth of most algae, but why then in the old ADA fertilizer line were Shade and Light, which contained phosphates? In the new line of fertilizers, phosphates are not provided at all. How to determine if there is phosphate starvation? If so, how much phosphate to add? How to understand how much nitrate to pour? The minimum amount indicated in the instructions is 1ml / 20l, but can be increased two and three times. How to determine if phosphates should be added? If so, in what form and in what quantity? How to determine the ratio of nitrates and phosphates in an aquarium with Amazonia, if it absorbs these substances in itself and they are always not in water?
I conducted such an experiment: crushed Amazonia granules taken from an aquarium in water. The water settled, and after it became transparent, I measured the phosphate: the test showed 0. Does this mean that phosphates must be introduced? Why does the rapid growth of plants still produce plaque on the walls? Is it a lack of something or an overdose yet?

A few observations:

1. If you are doing regular weekly 50% water changes (?), I'd be highly surprised if your hardscape materials are adding sufficient mineral content to your RO water. You should use a remineralisation product, or cut with treated tap water to achieve your desired Kh and Gh.

2. 2 x 150W Metal Halides is a LOT of light for that tank size (personally I would say too much)

3. You need to be consistent with your fertiliser dosing to avoid the risk of deficiencies.

It has be proven fairly extensively, that a reasonable excess of nutrients does not cause problematic algae. What causes algae is a deficiency in nutrients and/or CO2 relative to the light levels, poor distribution of both around the aquarium, or a lack of aquarium maintenance. I think the key line in your post is this:

Then, after the plants have actively grown, I cut them. I reduce the amount of fertilizer by 2 times approximately. After that, plants rarely begin to grow as fast, often appearing blue-green and filamentous algae.

So you cut the plants, at which point this should/will stimulate new growth, but you cut the fertilizer, depriving them of the nutrients required for that new growth. The plants don't grow, and algae takes over.The answer is, I'm afraid, already in the question!

Assuming you are going to keep that high amount of light going (though I would recommend you reduce it, otherwise you are going to be constantly fighting against it), you need to have consistent and high levels of fert dosing from day one. Check out EI dosing for more info: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-estimative-index.13/

You also need to be right on top of maintenance - with regular large water changes (50% per week minimum). Your CO2 also needs to be spot on to avoid any deficiencies both in terms of levels (lime green drop checker from light on to lights off), and distribution, as your plants are going to have higher carbon requirements under that level of lighting.
 

dw1305

Expert
Joined
7 Apr 2008
Messages
10,939
Location
nr Bath
Hi all,
Questions: what am I doing wrong? Why after a haircut does not manage to recreate the previous state of the aquarium?
It is believed that Amazonia soil and Power Sand substrate have powerful reserves of nitrate and phosphate, but then why do plants stop growing quickly enough?
Does it means you don't supply Magnesium at all? I'd look at the amount of Mg first.
Plant growth is like a car assembly line, it needs all the <"fourteen essential plant nutrients">. If any one of them is missing you don't get any plant growth (or a complete car).

The plant doesn't know where an element has come from, plants can only take up nutrient as ions, and every PO4--- ion is <"the same as every other">.

When all the essential nutrients for plant growth are present one of them will be the limiting element, this is described by <"Liebig's law of the minimum">. "Estimative Index" (EI) was developed to ensure that the mineral nutrients are always present at non-limiting levels.

I'm not a high tech aquarist, and I'm not interested in optimal plant growth. I use a different approach where I look at the leaf colour and growth, <"of a floating plant, as an indicator of nutrient status">.

cheers Darrel
 

M.eremin

New Member
Joined
24 Feb 2019
Messages
11
Location
Moscow
Does it means you don't supply Magnesium at all? I'd look at the amount of Mg first.


Only when there is a lack of other nutrients, in balanced environment P don't cause the algae.


It can be also lack of one nutrient while overdose of the other one - I think that's the most common cause of algae blooms.

Hi All!
As I know ADA's ferts contains Ca and Mg. About phosphates Amano said: Nature Aquarium supplies phosphate from Power Sand in the substrate so that not much of it will be released into the water. Keeping the phosphate level as low as possible is a key to maintaining beautiful planted aquarium.But I'd like to know how much phosphates in my aquarium now..Maybe Power Sand no longer contains phosphates and I need to add it. I know P is important element in plant aquarium, but I don't understand how should I behave with Power Sand and Amazonia from ADA.
 

M.eremin

New Member
Joined
24 Feb 2019
Messages
11
Location
Moscow
A few observations:

1. If you are doing regular weekly 50% water changes (?), I'd be highly surprised if your hardscape materials are adding sufficient mineral content to your RO water. You should use a remineralisation product, or cut with treated tap water to achieve your desired Kh and Gh.

2. 2 x 150W Metal Halides is a LOT of light for that tank size (personally I would say too much)

3. You need to be consistent with your fertiliser dosing to avoid the risk of deficiencies.

It has be proven fairly extensively, that a reasonable excess of nutrients does not cause problematic algae. What causes algae is a deficiency in nutrients and/or CO2 relative to the light levels, poor distribution of both around the aquarium, or a lack of aquarium maintenance. I think the key line in your post is this:



So you cut the plants, at which point this should/will stimulate new growth, but you cut the fertilizer, depriving them of the nutrients required for that new growth. The plants don't grow, and algae takes over.The answer is, I'm afraid, already in the question!

Assuming you are going to keep that high amount of light going (though I would recommend you reduce it, otherwise you are going to be constantly fighting against it), you need to have consistent and high levels of fert dosing from day one. Check out EI dosing for more info: https://www.ukaps.org/forum/threads/the-estimative-index.13/

You also need to be right on top of maintenance - with regular large water changes (50% per week minimum). Your CO2 also needs to be spot on to avoid any deficiencies both in terms of levels (lime green drop checker from light on to lights off), and distribution, as your plants are going to have higher carbon requirements under that level of lighting.

1. Yes, I do weekly water change 50% with RO. Amano has in his galleries aquariums TH ~20 = 2Gh. I have about 8 Gh and kH 6.
2. I know, but I want to have aquarium like Amano. He has 2x150 for 90x45x45. And I have too.
3. Lime green drop checker all day long?
 

dw1305

Expert
Joined
7 Apr 2008
Messages
10,939
Location
nr Bath
Hi all,
About phosphates Amano said: Nature Aquarium supplies phosphate from Power Sand in the substrate so that not much of it will be released into the water. Keeping the phosphate level as low as possible is a key to maintaining beautiful planted aquarium.But I'd like to know how much phosphates in my aquarium now..Maybe Power Sand no longer contains phosphates and I need to add it. I know P is important element in plant aquarium, but I don't understand how should I behave with Power Sand and Amazonia from ADA.
I'd just try adding some.

If you can get dry salts? K2HPO4 (di-potassium phosphate) or KH2PO4 (di-hydrogen potassium phosphate) are usually available. You can use the <"Rotala Butterfly nutrient calculator"> to give you an appropriate level for your tank size. I'd aim for about <"1 ppm PO4--- as a starter">.

When you are adding CO2 your plants will only benefit from that additional CO2 if they aren't nutrient limited.

cheers Darrel
 

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